Any Question Answered

[Caley Jim]

Merry Christmas to you to, William.

 

I would say your best plan is to lay the crossover first and then work out from there. If you lay all the turnouts first and there is even the slightest mis-alignment them you could have a bit of a problem.

 

Using a piece of Easitrac base as a link sounds like a good idea.

 

Jim

[Donw]

I agree with Jim getting the tracks aligned is they key

 

Don

[Crosland]

I would agree, start with one and work from there.

 

Also, start with overlength rails and use some Easytrac base to hold them in place whilst building the soldered pointwork (not my original idea).

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Crosland, I made that mistake on my first point but since then I've got space for 1.5 easitrac sprues on each point, so nice and easy to keep alignment. That has meant that one of my tracks will have a splice of about 2" between the throat and crossover all told  (this is a micro-layout!) but still, it's working better. One thing I will definitely attempt is to use the plain chairplates from the association to raise my PCB pointwork to the height of the Easitrac flex so I don't have to use card shims underneath.

 

Anyway I've finally cracked my DCC system and I now know I can control the Cobalts, so that's allowing me to proceed. My first throat cobalt is mounted and  actuating rod centred on the unit and in the hole, with the point threaded onto it through the tiebar hole. Should I just glue the turnout down and then remove/trim the rods? Do I need to perform some other testing ahead of time? Apologies for the questions, but I'm getting quite nervous now the rubber is about to meet the road...

Edited December 28, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Ian Morgan]

If the operating wire is steel piano wire, then it is very difficult to cut neatly. It will destroy cheap wire cutters and expensive Xuron cutters. I have a very old and solid pair of cutters I inherited from my dad which will cut it, but they are too big to get in close when everything is in place. Also, some large pliers have a cutter on the side of the hinge that most people do not know is there. These cut OK, but not in-situ. A carborundum disc in a mini-drill will cut this wire, but creates a lot of heat and will destroy plastic tiebars in Peco points. I sometimes use a small triangular file to make a nick in the side of the wire and then snap it, but it can leave a ragged and sharp end.

 

So, if you can, cut it to length before fixing (which is not easy to get right). This is where the Dingo servo mounts really come into their own as the wire height can be easily adjusted after fitting.

[Lacathedrale]

I was thinking about servo actuation but figured that it was more important to pick my battles - possibly for the next layout? In the event, I measured the actuating rod by swiping it with a permanent marker, then inserting into place and scraping with a scalpel in situ so there was a clear delineation where there were no scrapes indicating the tie bar level. I cut with a dremel and seems to be working fine. I tested the cobalt in-situ by holding the trackwork with my fingers while actuating it and it locked nicely and positively. 

 

Overall after some rather stressful DCC teething problems yesterday, everything seems to be going well. I think I should have probably held off drilling for uncoupling magnet holes and tie bar slots until I was laying a given point though, because I've now got two holes for each half of my crossover and may end up with a third

 

Is there a defacto standard uncoupling magnet used with DGs? I see that Seep/Gaugemaster do one, as do Peco. I'll be using it with DCC so there's the extra question of how to power it!

[Izzy]

 

I would say use the Seep ones, they don’t get too hot if left on and seem to have enough power. I did try a Peco once....appeared to be a single version of their point motor ones, so little power - not enough to work was my experience - and rapid heating/overheating if used for more than a second.

 

Izzy

[Donw]

Somewqhere on here is Missy's blog on Highclere which includes how she made her uncoupling magnets. 

 

found the link  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/220/entry-3957-im-attracted-to-you/

 

Don

[Nigelcliffe]

 

Is there a defacto standard uncoupling magnet used with DGs? I see that Seep/Gaugemaster do one, as do Peco. I'll be using it with DCC so there's the extra question of how to power it!

 

The Seep/Gaugemaster electromagnet is fairly efficient, doesn't draw stupid currents (unlike other designs), the big washer at one end makes the magnetic field reasonably effective.   

If using remote control, then you need a decent current source to run them.   One way to do this is with a Mosfet switch, which can be bought as a pre-assembled circuit on Amazon, Ebay, and other sites for a couple of pounds a shot.   That can switch a decent amount of power (say from a 3A, 15v DC power supply), but the load on the switching electronics is tiny.   So, this is one solution for simple push buttons (can use small, cheap buttons and they'll still be working in six months time, whereas without an intermediate circuit the buttons may burn their contacts), and its also a solution for DCC control. And you can use both - DCC device and a push button onto the same Mosfet, so local button and long range remote.  

 

Onto DCC side, you need a suitable accessory decoder which can run for a few seconds then self-turn off (to avoid leaving a high current coil running for ever) and be confident that your chosen control methods work well for uncouplers.   My experience has been that some systems/designs work well with this, others are an absolute pain in the *****.   So, depends how easy it is to trigger the uncouplers from your system arrangements.   Specific device recommendations are system dependent.  

 

 

- Nigel

[Lacathedrale]

Oh that's excellent, thank you all - what's the diameter of the Seep pole? I think it makes sense to get at least one of those before I try to make my own. I've drilled 5mm shafts in preparation, so finger's crossed!

 

Nigel, if I understand you correctly, using a pushbutton to make a circuit straight from a 15v/3A source to the electromagnet might burn their contacts, so it's better to use a MOSFET switch in the middle to handle that.  I've seen one with four relays here:https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELEGOO-Channel-Optocoupler-Arduino-Raspberry/dp/B06XK6HCQC/ - so one channel per uncoupler where I connect the power input from a 15v / 3A DC, power output to the magnet, signal live/ground to my pushbutton and/or accessory decoder? I see VCC listed on the input side, is that something I need to be concerned with?

 

Thanks again 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Nigelcliffe]

Oh that's excellent, thank you all - what's the diameter of the Seep pole? I think it makes sense to get at least one of those before I try to make my own. I've drilled 5mm shafts in preparation, so finger's crossed!

 

Nigel, if I understand you correctly, using a pushbutton to make a circuit straight from a 15v/3A source to the electromagnet might burn their contacts, so it's better to use a MOSFET switch in the middle to handle that.  I've seen one with four relays here:https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELEGOO-Channel-Optocoupler-Arduino-Raspberry/dp/B06XK6HCQC/ - so one channel per uncoupler where I connect the power input from a 15v / 3A DC, power output to the magnet, signal live/ground to my pushbutton and/or accessory decoder? I see VCC listed on the input side, is that something I need to be concerned with?

 

Thanks again 

 

Seep shaft is 5mm diameter and just under 14mm long. 

 

You've linked to a relay board, which is something different.  Could be used, but put a diode over the electromagnet to stop the back-EMF, which will otherwise burn the relay contacts if using a DC power supply to the electromagnets.  The back-emf, if not controlled, may also upset any other electronics on the same power supply (so it might reboot stuff on the same power supply). 

The relay board you've linked to uses a 5v supply for the relays (which is what many Arduino or RaspberryPI circuits would find convenient).  To use on its own, you need 5v to power the board. 

 

Mosfet switch example, there are dozens on Amazon and Ebay, so I've not checked the price

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HALJIA-IRF520-MOSFET-Arduino-Raspberry/dp/B06XB9B16Z/

The screw terminals at the top are Volts in and Ground, and then volts out (positive and negative) to the electromagnet.   The three pins at the bottom are "signal", "vcc" and "ground", connecting signal to ground by a push button, or electronics, will turn the Mosfet on, thus activating the electromagnet.   Three pin "servo" connecting plugs are the quick/simple way to connect to those pins. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Nigelcliffe

[2mmMark]

By odd coincidence, I've got a potential candidate for an uncoupling electromagnet on my workbench. 20mm diameter, 15mm depth with a resistance of 52 ohms.

 

Here's a link to one source although mine came from a UK supplier

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P20-15-electric-magnet-lifting-2-5kg-holding-solenoid-electromagnet-dc24V-RAHN/153218758869

 

Experiments with a Marklin Z gauge controller show it to be amply powerful enough for an uncoupler. I haven't yet check the current draw but it's much more efficient that a PK magnet, although that's not hard!

 

Mark

[Lacathedrale]

Hi guys, do you think it might be useful for me to collate a list of tool recommendations that've been posted here and in this subforum somewhere?

 

I'm after some decent quality mini drill bits after buying some chinese sets which have the same cutting power as a wedge of brie, and I'm sure that a discussion must exist somewhere in this thread.

[Valentin]

I went to the Canterbury show earlier today and I picked a Class 08 and a steam engine bodies for a couple of quid each. I have no idea what model the steam engine is! Could anyone shed some light?

 

[5944]

It's the remains of an very elderly Graham Farish J69.

[Nigelcliffe]

It's the remains of an very elderly Graham Farish J69.

 

Yes, 1970's vintage.  Somewhat over-scale compared to the real thing, but sort of captures the overall shape if you forgive the size. 

Original mechanism pre-dates the open-framed motor design of Farish produced in the 1980's and 90's (and for a while in China until newer designs replaced them).  

[Lacathedrale]

I think I need to start over with my Jinty chassis - it was a great learning experience but the worm gear does not mesh with the spur gear properly when it's running (free-wheeling upside down seems to be fine). I believe this is because of the number of times the chassis was distorted and re-flattened, and that the gearbox is somehow slightly skewed when viewed from above. I'll give it a tweak with the pliers in due course just incase I can get it running, but I'm working on the assumption I'll need to strip it down and start over. 

 

Is there a standard method for retrieving the parts from a project such as this? Motor/wheels/gears all seem to be in good nick otherwise, other than the crank pins being soldered/filed to washers on the connecting rods.

[John57sharp]

I think I need to start over with my Jinty chassis - it was a great learning experience but the worm gear does not mesh with the spur gear properly when it's running (free-wheeling upside down seems to be fine). I believe this is because of the number of times the chassis was distorted and re-flattened, and that the gearbox is somehow slightly skewed when viewed from above. I'll give it a tweak with the pliers in due course just incase I can get it running, but I'm working on the assumption I'll need to strip it down and start over. 

 

Is there a standard method for retrieving the parts from a project such as this? Motor/wheels/gears all seem to be in good nick otherwise, other than the crank pins being soldered/filed to washers on the connecting rods.

William I feel your pain!

 

I just wanted to mention that on my similarly abused 08 chassis, I have solder some scrap etch onto the side of the work housing to make it stiffer , I can’t say if it has worked yet as I’m still working other issues....

 

Cheers

 

John

[Chris Higgs]

William I feel your pain!

 

I just wanted to mention that on my similarly abused 08 chassis, I have solder some scrap etch onto the side of the work housing to make it stiffer , I can’t say if it has worked yet as I’m still working other issues....

 

Cheers

 

John

 

It's always possible to just cut the gearbox off and adjust the worm mesh by putting shims under whatever sort of motor mount you choose. The new motor mounts shortly available in Shop 3 may prove of use here. The worm does need to be mounted directly on the motor shaft to do this.

 

If you have already decided to make a second attempt with the Jinty then you have nothing to lose trying this.

 

Chris 

 

Chris

[Lacathedrale]

Right, I've got some 1.5mm O/D tube with a 1mm inside diameter, so could give that a bash. Thanks for the tip! 

 

Along the same lines I think I've identified the major running problem on my layout and annoyingly it's right in the throat of the board. If I decide to pull it out and replace it, is there any tips for ensuring the replacement section is the right length? I eyeballed it while putting the layout together and figured a 2mm gap wouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things (it did).

[Valentin]

Right, I've got some 1.5mm O/D tube with a 1mm inside diameter, so could give that a bash. Thanks for the tip! 

 

[...]

 

Make sure you have a good quality tube. I used once a tube which I thought is good but the two circles were off-centre. The Association's 1.5mm to 1mm adapter supplied with the motor and Nigel Lawton's adapters are good choices.

 

I went through the same experience as you with my J94 replacement chassis; not even the 3rd one runs as I would have liked.

[Caley Jim]

Along the same lines I think I've identified the major running problem on my layout and annoyingly it's right in the throat of the board. If I decide to pull it out and replace it, is there any tips for ensuring the replacement section is the right length? I eyeballed it while putting the layout together and figured a 2mm gap wouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things (it did).

Again, you're a bit vague, William.  Are we talking about a replacement section of track, rail or baseboard?  The simple way in either case is to measure the bit you take out and make the new bit the same length,or the appropriate length depending on what the problem is.

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks all. I tried using some tube from Eileens but there was just enough give (what must be 0.25mm or so!) across the length that it wouldn't reliably mesh.

 

(I admit in retrospect that looking at it bare-faced, the motor should be about 10mm closer to the idler gear or there should be a bearing on the other side!)

 

 

Again, you're a bit vague, William.  Are we talking about a replacement section of track, rail or baseboard?  The simple way in either case is to measure the bit you take out and make the new bit the same length,or the appropriate length depending on what the problem is.

 

Jim

 

Sorry Jim - I was talking about a replacement section of track - I would be pulling out a turnout and a few inches of plain track around it, and as I said I'm not super clear on the best way to join up these formations - the precise measurement of something so large/bendy/3D to it slots perfectly in, as well as keeping everything aligned. When I was laying the little plank out, I thought I could get away with easitrac webbing across the join but that's just not cutting it. It might be because I'm using a cork roadbed (never again!).

[Chris Higgs]

Thanks all. I tried using some tube from Eileens but there was just enough give (what must be 0.25mm or so!) across the length that it wouldn't reliably mesh.

 

(I admit in retrospect that looking at it bare-faced, the motor should be about 10mm closer to the idler gear or there should be a bearing on the other side!)

 

 

 

Sorry Jim - I was talking about a replacement section of track - I would be pulling out a turnout and a few inches of plain track around it, and as I said I'm not super clear on the best way to join up these formations - the precise measurement of something so large/bendy/3D to it slots perfectly in, as well as keeping everything aligned. When I was laying the little plank out, I thought I could get away with easitrac webbing across the join but that's just not cutting it. It might be because I'm using a cork roadbed (never again!).

 

Ah, yes. One option (no longer available) would be to leave the gearbox in place but only use the bearing at the end farthest from the motor. With this design you can only get the motor so close before it starts to foul that idler gear on the centre axle. Have you tried mounting the motor the other way i.e. flat surfaces at top/bottom? According to the CAD artowrk, it should clear (just) the flanges on 9.5mm wheels and then can mount very close to the worm.

 

Chris

Edited January 26, 2019 by Chris Higgs

[Izzy]

I did mount the motor flat on my 08 chassis using a slab of d/s PCB frame spacer for it to sit on so the chassis sides were isolated from it and each other. Can't find the posted image to link to so here it is again.

 

 

It worked because I had the advantage of using one of the earlier long black nylon worms with a 1mm bore, (from Ultrascale), and I am not sure whether it would work with the shorter white ones now provided unless a sleeve is used. Personally I find sleeving worms on shafts quite an iffy task, all too often getting an eccentric end result and less than wonderful meshing. One point is that I did add another layer around the frames to strengthen them where the wormwheel shaft exists.

 

I tried the same arrangement with my 04, again with a long worm,

 

 

but like the 08 replaced the motor with an e-bay 7x16 coreless which enabled use of a much shorter worm on a short sleeve.

 

 

Sadly these motors are no longer available but the general principle holds good I think.

 

Izzy