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50 minutes ago, Shed said:

can anyone please explain what is meant by the term

"Train Fitted with Airtight System" ?

What is the context? ATP systems include a check on air pressure to ensure that there is sufficient air available to brake the train. 
 

There was an accident recently in Taiwan where an ATP equipped tilting train derailed while overspeeding on a curve. The ATP had been disabled as low air pressure resulted in frequent emergency brake applications. 

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1 hour ago, Shed said:

is it a parameter that a driver would input on boot up of a train, or does the system check automatically?

On fixed consist trains it is automatic. Not sure for others but logically automatic as it is safety critical. 
 

But I am still unsure where you found the terminology. 

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  • 7 months later...
19 hours ago, ess1uk said:

 

Slightly strange story given the batch of ETCS equipped 387s which started on Heathrow Express recently. 

Edited by DY444
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4 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

Slightly strange story given the batch of ETCS equipped 387s which started on Heathrow Express recently. 

It does seem odd that a "first in class" 387 is considered necessary when a fleet fitment already exists, and that it is implied that the same design is replicable on all the other Electrostar classes.  Most of the earlier ones have quite significant differences from the 387, not least having been built before future provision for ETCS became mandatory.  I can only think the "first in class" is related to the issues that might arise during DC operation, or that they've got the class number wrong and they should be referring to a 375.  

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18 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Slightly strange story given the batch of ETCS equipped 387s which started on Heathrow Express recently. 

I did think that myself 

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  • 4 months later...
Posted (edited)
On 22/05/2021 at 09:19, ess1uk said:

Other than Thameslunk trains,

what units are fitted in GB?

 

For starters, NO units are fitted with ERTMS, they are fitted with the on-board elements of ETCS. 

 

Off the top of my head:

 

  • Class 158 - TfW Cambrian Units only
  • Class 195
  • Class 196
  • Class 221**
  • Class 313 - Okay, only one unit
  • Class 331
  • Class 345
  • Class 374 - I presume they have ETCS fitted and use it via a STM?
  • Class 390**
  • Class 397
  • Class 387/1A
  • Class 700
  • Class 701*
  • Class 707
  • Class 710
  • Class 717
  • Class 720 
  • Class 730
  • Class 745
  • Class 755
  • Class 800*
  • Class 801*
  • Class 802*

 

The ones in bold are units that have it fitted and are using it in an ETCS Level. The ones with * are ones that are using the Packet 44 element of the ETCS Data for ASDO / APCO / ISDD / ABDO systems. The ones with ** have an EVC to read the Packet 44 TASS Data for Tilting, but don't have the full ETCS DMI.

 

The rest have it fitted (I believe as they are all new build units, although I'm happy to corrected) and the ETCS DMI is used to provide the speedometer etc (expect for the GWR Class 80x's as they use the ATP Speedometer).

 

Simon 

Edited by St. Simon
Forgot to add some units!
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1 minute ago, St. Simon said:

 

For starters, NO units are fitted with ERTMS, they are fitted with the on-board elements of ETCS. 

 

Off the top of my head:

 

  • Class 313 - Okay, only one unit
  • Class 345
  • Class 374 - I presume they have ETCS fitted and use it via a STM?
  • Class 397
  • Class 387/1A
  • Class 700
  • Class 701*
  • Class 707
  • Class 710
  • Class 717
  • Class 720 
  • Class 730
  • Class 745
  • Class 755
  • Class 800*
  • Class 801*
  • Class 802*

 

The ones in bold are units that have it fitted and are using it in an ETCS Level. The ones with * are ones that are using the Packet 44 element of the ETCS Data for ASDO / APCO / ISDD / ABDO systems.

 

The rest have it fitted (I believe as they are all new build units, although I'm happy to corrected) and the ETCS DMI is used to provide the speedometer etc (expect for the GWR Class 80x's as they use the ATP Speedometer).

 

Simon 

Yeah I get that ERTMS is GSMR plus ETCS.

I wasn’t sure about the GWR out of Paddington with Heathrow etc

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33 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Yeah I get that ERTMS is GSMR plus ETCS.

I wasn’t sure about the GWR out of Paddington with Heathrow etc

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, I wasn't have a go or anything, just thought I'd clarify it :)

 

At the moment, ETCS is being extended from Heathrow towards Paddington (out to Ealing Broadway in December and then in to Paddington), but GWR won't use it on their Class 80x until it gets extended out to Bristol.

 

Simon 

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To provide some clarification (and not in any way criticism), essentially ERTMS has major four elements;

  • GSM-R (the communications element)
  • ETCS (the signalling element)
  • Traffic Management System (not yet fully developed)
  • and the Standard Operating Rules

The units/locos etc., will obviously be fitted with the "mobile" equipment of the first three elements listed above.

 

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7 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

For starters, NO units are fitted with ERTMS, they are fitted with the on-board elements of ETCS. 

 

Off the top of my head:

 

  • Class 313 - Okay, only one unit
  • Class 345
  • Class 374 - I presume they have ETCS fitted and use it via a STM?
  • Class 397
  • Class 387/1A
  • Class 700
  • Class 701*
  • Class 707
  • Class 710
  • Class 717
  • Class 720 
  • Class 730
  • Class 745
  • Class 755
  • Class 800*
  • Class 801*
  • Class 802*

 

The ones in bold are units that have it fitted and are using it in an ETCS Level. The ones with * are ones that are using the Packet 44 element of the ETCS Data for ASDO / APCO / ISDD / ABDO systems.

 

The rest have it fitted (I believe as they are all new build units, although I'm happy to corrected) and the ETCS DMI is used to provide the speedometer etc (expect for the GWR Class 80x's as they use the ATP Speedometer).

 

Simon 

Also the 158s on the Cambrian.  

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7 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

For starters, NO units are fitted with ERTMS, they are fitted with the on-board elements of ETCS. 

 

 

6 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Sorry, I wasn't have a go or anything, just thought I'd clarify it :)

 

 

 

 

6D9DF69A-B168-4238-9C05-5B2DBCBB0DAF.jpeg.0bb9a37522a779cd090ec1c97040a8d8.jpeg

 

you do get awfully upset when people use the wrong terminology when it comes to ERTMS!

 

makes me chuckle, i just knew after @ess1ukpost you would be the next one down correcting him, should have had a tenner on it at paddypower

 

im intersted ro see how the equipment will fir into the new TFW 197 units that will be dedicated to the cambrian as, having signed 196s and knowing what equipment is in the cab its going to be a tight squeeze to get everything in there

 

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1 hour ago, big jim said:

 

 

 

6D9DF69A-B168-4238-9C05-5B2DBCBB0DAF.jpeg.0bb9a37522a779cd090ec1c97040a8d8.jpeg

 

you do get awfully upset when people use the wrong terminology when it comes to ERTMS!

 

makes me chuckle, i just knew after @ess1ukpost you would be the next one down correcting him, should have had a tenner on it at paddypower

 

im intersted ro see how the equipment will fir into the new TFW 197 units that will be dedicated to the cambrian as, having signed 196s and knowing what equipment is in the cab its going to be a tight squeeze to get everything in there

 


Hi Jim,

 

Yea, you are right, I do get a bit wound up about it, I wouldn’t have blamed you for putting that tenner on! 
 

Sorry Gents!

 

Simon

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Northern City Line Project is progressing well with on site teams who are fully mobilised installing equipment in a difficult environment working within two tunnel bores.

REB and Tunnel Locs are built and ready to be installed over the next 2 months across multiple disruptives, with the first major disruptive starting on 19th June 2021.

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47 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

The Northern City Line Project is progressing well with on site teams who are fully mobilised installing equipment in a difficult environment working within two tunnel bores.

REB and Tunnel Locs are built and ready to be installed over the next 2 months across multiple disruptives, with the first major disruptive starting on 19th June 2021.

I know what it's like down there, I used to do 3-monthly (in theory, in practice could be as little as once a year) cab rides on the 313s checking the CSR coverage. Also the routes between KX to Cambridge and Peterborough.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 01/06/2021 at 07:39, ess1uk said:

Does anyone know if there was any ERTMS work done as part of the recontrol of KX to York ROC?

 

Heard on the grapevine that KX North will be version 2.3.0 as per Thameslink but NCL will be done first (i.e. before KX North), so about 2025 for KX North to go live. Then all to be "uprevved" to version 3.6. Not sure if the proposed "big bang overnight change" for ECML will still happen, or if an overlay option will be introduced initially - still a long way to go yet.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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