kbriffa Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi. I had the opportunity to weather one of my locos - BR Standard 3MT. I started by applying a thin film of Dullcote to kill the glossy finish of the RTR loco. I then applied mixtures of AIM powders to obtain the look I was looking for. I am pretty happy with the results. Do I now need to seal the powders in some way? Would hair spray work? Thanks Kenneth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You can use hair spray, but try and get the non-scented version or your model will smell a bit girly I use "Purity Seal" from Games Workshop to seal my models, it is designed for wargamming models which are frequently handled during games so it gives you a pretty tough surface. Kindest Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbriffa Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 You can use hair spray, but try and get the non-scented version or your model will smell a bit girly I use "Purity Seal" from Games Workshop to seal my models, it is designed for wargamming models which are frequently handled during games so it gives you a pretty tough surface. Kindest Regards, Jack Good idea. If it's good for that application it will be good for the same reason on my loco. Thanks Kenneth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wouldnt hair spray remain tacky? I dont seal the weathering powders on my stock, finding that they stay on pretty well unless someone with wet or sticky/greasy fingers handle them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wouldnt hair spray remain tacky? I dont seal the weathering powders on my stock, finding that they stay on pretty well unless someone with wet or sticky/greasy fingers handle them I have found that they usually dry OK but some give a slight sheen which spoils the complete grunge look on a 1960s steam loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You can use hair spray, but try and get the non-scented version or your model will smell a bit girly I use "Purity Seal" from Games Workshop to seal my models, it is designed for wargamming models which are frequently handled during games so it gives you a pretty tough surface. Kindest Regards, Jack Jack There has been comment elsewhere that Purity seal has fogged plastics films used for windows - have you any comment. Also, how flat is the finish? I am looking for something that will remain very flat. Thanks Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Jack There has been comment elsewhere that Purity seal has fogged plastics films used for windows - have you any comment. Also, how flat is the finish? I am looking for something that will remain very flat. Thanks Paul Bartlett I use the spray can stuff, I think you can also get it in a pot, but I don't like the idea of brushing it on. I haven't noticed any windows fogging up whilst using it, though I mostly have freight stock and the only thing I used it upon with any great quantity of "glass" in it was a H0 Roco DMU, my N scale 08 windows haven't clouded up either. The finish seems to be the same more or less the same as whatever is under it. I tried it on matte weathering and the finish didn't change, it is was still matte. I also used it on my Dapol "Silver Bullet" and the clay streaks stayed matte and the tank stayed glossy, though it wasn't quite as glossy as it was. It is tough stuff too, I got some overspray on the bath (don't ask!) and it took several months and several bathroom cleaning products before the "limescale" had finally gone. Luckily nobody suspected I had purity sealed the bath! Kindest Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I addition to my last post I think it is worth mentioning that I spray indoors. The fogging issues could be down to temp, humidity etc Make sure that the can is well shaken before use and has been stored (for a while) in the same environment that you intend to use it in. I suspect clouding is down to water vapor mixing with the varnish. Cheers, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I addition to my last post I think it is worth mentioning that I spray indoors. The fogging issues could be down to temp, humidity etc Make sure that the can is well shaken before use and has been stored (for a while) in the same environment that you intend to use it in. I suspect clouding is down to water vapor mixing with the varnish. Cheers, Jack Jack Thanks for both responses, I'll give it a try. I use Chaos black as my main black, Skull white for undercoating and Roughcoat for when I want that type of finish. All excellent (as are the pot paints) I use an old microwave oven as my spray booth in a reasonably warm room. Paul Bartlett EDit - I asked when I bougth some 'Purity' and Roughcoat has been discontinued which is a great shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Jack Thanks for both responses, I'll give it a try. I use Chaos black as my main black, Skull white for undercoating and Roughcoat for when I want that type of finish. All excellent (as are the pot paints) I use an old microwave oven as my spray booth in a reasonably warm room. Paul Bartlett I agree, I paint almost all my models with the GW paints, I especially like them for weathering. They are friendly too as you can thin them with water and they don't stink the house out like oil based paints, they also touch dry quickly and can be washed off with a bit of warm water if you make a mistake. I think before varnishing any model it is important to make sure a model is completely dry, as often, despite seeming dry to the eye and touch, the paint is still not 100% dry; Then you apply varnish on it and you get water from the paint trapped between the surface and the varnish, leading to discolouration. I normally leave the model for several days or place it in the airing cupboard overnight before I varnish them. Cheers, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegreenly Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Jack Thanks for both responses, I'll give it a try. I use Chaos black as my main black, Skull white for undercoating and Roughcoat for when I want that type of finish. All excellent (as are the pot paints) I use an old microwave oven as my spray booth in a reasonably warm room. Paul Bartlett B----r! I've just taken a dead microwave to the Council re-cycling site! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi. I had the opportunity to weather one of my locos - BR Standard 3MT. I started by applying a thin film of Dullcote to kill the glossy finish of the RTR loco. I then applied mixtures of AIM powders to obtain the look I was looking for. I am pretty happy with the results. Do I now need to seal the powders in some way? Would hair spray work? Thanks Kenneth I would have used the Dullcote AFTER applying the weathering powders. That way you kill two birds etc. I prefer Microscale Micro Flat for this sort of thing. It thins with water, has almost no odour and drys very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mccarthy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I like heavy weathering on most of my 1950's period locos and stock and after painting/lining etc (or accepting the proprietary finish as-is) then first use Vallejo acrylics for weathering, mixed appropriately for tone and with added Rowney's Artist's Acrylic Matt varnish (to "bind" better on the plastic/metal model surface) with the whole mix being then thinned with water to the required covering density. After leving it drying hard for a day, I then use MIG weathering powders (Spanish, I believe and aimed mostly at military modellers) , which I think are an acrylic base because I NEVER overvarnish or seal them and they don't seem to come off afterwards, once left for a day or two in the air. They stay DEAD MATT in my experiance and usage - just what I want. Incidently, I hve never yet found a dead (I mean completely dead) matt varnish of any type despite innumerable experiments - they all seem to have at least a modicum of sheen and this is often (but by no means always) undesirable on a model. Anyway, all this works for me! Chris McCarthy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Incidently, I hve never yet found a dead (I mean completely dead) matt varnish of any type despite innumerable experiments - they all seem to have at least a modicum of sheen and this is often (but by no means always) undesirable on a model. Testors Dullcote does seem to give a completely flat finish (I cannot see any sheen on it). However I have found out the hard way that this does indeed fog windows slightly. This is not entirely suprising as matt varnishes achieve the finish by adding a fine powder (often talcum powder) to break up the flat surface and kill the shine. This is not transparent so if applied in sufficient quantities it will start to interfere with the transparcency of what it is applied to. In the case of the model I was working on, I overpainted the windows with Klear and this went a long way to restoring their transparency. Not perfect but a great improvement. It actually looked quite good as real windows are rarely crystal clear, especially around locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronk the shunter Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Having used it a lot on GW 40K figures I wouldn't use GW "purity seal" if you want a matt finish. It tends to be a bit shiny, and the thicker the coat the more glossy it gets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For a completely matt finish try Xtracolor matt varnish (code XDTT) available from Hannants.It really needs to be applied by airbrush thinned with either Hannants own thinners (code XDFF) or cellulose thinners. It's used extensively by military/aircraft modelers to obtain a true matt finish. Malcolm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I use the spray can stuff, I think you can also get it in a pot, but I don't like the idea of brushing it on. I haven't noticed any windows fogging up whilst using it, though I mostly have freight stock and the only thing I used it upon with any great quantity of "glass" in it was a H0 Roco DMU, my N scale 08 windows haven't clouded up either. The finish seems to be the same more or less the same as whatever is under it. I tried it on matte weathering and the finish didn't change, it is was still matte. I also used it on my Dapol "Silver Bullet" and the clay streaks stayed matte and the tank stayed glossy, though it wasn't quite as glossy as it was. It is tough stuff too, I got some overspray on the bath (don't ask!) and it took several months and several bathroom cleaning products before the "limescale" had finally gone. Luckily nobody suspected I had purity sealed the bath! Kindest Regards, Jack Just to say I finally got around to using Purity Seal. Thanks for the advice, it seems to dry very quickly with no alteration to the finish beneath it - I used it just to seal some transfers down and there is no sign of where it was applied compared to the rest of the body - which had been finished with GW Chaos black. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just to say I finally got around to using Purity Seal. Thanks for the advice, it seems to dry very quickly with no alteration to the finish beneath it - I used it just to seal some transfers down and there is no sign of where it was applied compared to the rest of the body - which had been finished with GW Chaos black. Paul Bartlett That's good to hear; I'm glad I could be of some assistance to you Paul, the number of times your wagon photographs have come in handy for my projects I certainly owe you more than one! Kindest Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswild Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's good to hear; I'm glad I could be of some assistance to you Paul, the number of times your wagon photographs have come in handy for my projects I certainly owe you more than one! Kindest Regards, Jack Hi, i've also just given purity seal a try, to seal weathering powders, and it seems really good, the model looks exactly like it did before application, which is something railmatch varnish hasn't always achieved, cheers for the heads-up on this one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Iceman Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 you can buy an inexpensive spray from any art/stationery store such as staples/rayman/amazon (even some £ shops have a version) its a fixing spray for chalk/charcoal/pastels. Used it for some time now without problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldmansminion Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 hi, as a wargames minature painter by profession, particularly fantasy, i wouldn'y use GW purity seal, ...as many as 1 in 6 cans are a duff ones, where you get fogging on the minature, (creamy like finish in the recesses) and more often than i care to remmber, a hazing, or dusting on the figure, that drys like a whitey haze on the figure. it is rubbish for sealing weathering on card buildings, even with a light spary, all the detail in the brick is lost, with extreme hazing, i have thrown the building i made away. the hazing takeing about 3 hours to appear! am trying some artists water pastel sealer at the momment on card buildings for the rolling stock , defintely testors dullcoat, then pick out the "shiney" bits, with a heavily dilluted hardcote. works well with the vallejo acrilyics, tamiya poweders as well. a tip with using any spray varnish, is to heat the can in a tub of very warm water for a few minutes, helps it to mix and flow better. and dont spray on a cold day, as the varnish can often be dry by the time it gets to the model hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 hi, as a wargames minature painter by profession, particularly fantasy, i wouldn'y use GW purity seal, ...as many as 1 in 6 cans are a duff ones, where you get fogging on the minature, (creamy like finish in the recesses) and more often than i care to remmber, a hazing, or dusting on the figure, that drys like a whitey haze on the figure. it is rubbish for sealing weathering on card buildings, even with a light spary, all the detail in the brick is lost, with extreme hazing, i have thrown the building i made away. the hazing takeing about 3 hours to appear! Several years ago there were a few dodgey batches of Purity Seal (around 2005/06 if I remember rightly), which had the clouding issue, there were a couple of product recalls and most of the cans were removed from circulation, you may be able to get a dodgey can from the sort of hobby shop where there are cans still gathering dust from 5+ years ago on the shelf but generally they are hard to come by. Ever since those dodgey batches when someone applies it incorrectly, in the wrong humidity, temperature, with inadequate shaking, wrong distance from the model etc, they tend to blame the Purity Seal and those who had whole armies go cloudy after using the dodgey batches from a few years ago tend to agree with them. I have used many cans (must be over 20 by now) over the last few years and never once had clouding issues. Maybe I am just lucky though :-P Kindest Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am still very much a beginner in the dark art of weathering but have used Carrs, AIM and Tamiya powders on rolling stock, structures and the track itself with some success. Mostly I don't find a need to seal the work but there remains the risk of a stray drop of moisture harming the work form whatever source. Some plastics seem to take powders better than others with the result that some powder leaves residue on the fingers from some rolling stock. I have used a $2 hairspray on a couple of occasions but the result has been clumping of the powder despite a very fine spray and using a sweeping spray technique. One accidental discovery was that a greasy finger-tip pressed against the plastic of a model in a suitable spot which then has weathering powder applied over it will result in a greasy "oil stain" which can be rather effective. Currently I have no plans to seal future work. My own powder weathering applied to a Hornby 08, a Kernow / Dapol 0298 and a Skaledale engine shed; the pannier and oil tanker are professionally air-brush weathered. The shed roads also have black weathering powder brushed along the "four foot". My powder weathering over a Bachmann "factory spray" showing the oily patches achieved as described above. None of my work shown here has been sealed and all has stayed firmly where it was put. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldmansminion Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 hi jack yeah, do i remmeber that, every can was a duff ! left me with some serious problems i was at the time, using the hardcoat spray, as the first layer, then spraying with the purity seal, but all of a sudden they stopped selling the hardcoat, hmmmm, i wonder why? the milking with purity seal wasn't apparent at first, it appeared after several hours, so all the test spraying was a waste of time i use probably 3/4 cans a month, havent gone near the purity seal for a year now, it was just to irratic. just my opion and my experince, if it works for you then by all means still use it, £ for £ it is still one of the cheapest sprays out there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy14 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 a tip with using any spray varnish, is to heat the can in a tub of very warm water for a few minutes, helps it to mix and flow better. Hi, I'm also a newbie to weathering and am currently attempting my first project; an old Hornby 9F that my local club had spare and which had been previously weathered (although not too well...). So far, I have re-sprayed and re-numbered it, and I then wanted to apply a matt varnish to seal the paint before starting on the new weathering. I am using Railmatch Matt Varnish (1407) and initially, I was disappointed with the results. However, I have tried this tip to warm the can before using it and the difference is amazing; it applied much more evenly and the finish was much better... I may try some of the alternatives suggested on this thread but I wanted to say that I had found this very useful - definitely a top tip! Thanks, Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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