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mullie

Pott Row and Upbech St Mary a journey through 00 and then into EM

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The white heat of modelling, running in the J39 chassis while getting the board ready for the laying of point rodding and the beginning of scenic work.

 

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More detailed photos of progress. I want to gain more space so have removed the scenery behind the siding for a different treatment.

 

IMG_20191011_215320835.jpg.b9d204bfb3768b1fe1d8fb126ad916f4.jpg

 

In places, the scenery has been cut back from the track to allow the fitting of point rodding.

 

IMG_20191011_215339218.jpg.0437bf420899d18dc36adc92a33e284b.jpg

 

 

Upbech will eventually become a through station. I believe I am correct in saying that the ground frame can be brought into use when needed by insertion of a token to take possession of the line. The more knowledgeable are welcome to correct me. Signalling will be installed and once I work out how to do it all the signals will be connected to the ground frame too. Any advice re point and signal rodding gratefully received as it still seems a bit of a black art.

 

I was hoping to take photos at Cranmore last week but the signalling is not used as the railway is literally one engine in steam.

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2 hours ago, mullie said:

Upbech will eventually become a through station. I believe I am correct in saying that the ground frame can be brought into use when needed by insertion of a token to take possession of the line. The more knowledgeable are welcome to correct me. Signalling will be installed and once I work out how to do it all the signals will be connected to the ground frame too. Any advice re point and signal rodding gratefully received as it still seems a bit of a black art.

 

As with anything in signalling this is a complex situation in that exceptions to the norm can always be found to contradict standard practice!

I recently wrote a  short signalling series looking at narrow gauge installations for the 7mm NGA so I have some knowledge of simple installations.

I also worked for the real thing as a signalman in later life although I do not suppose that that will inure me from the wrath of those more knowledgeable than myself.

I would suggest that the following procedures and equipment were standard practice.

 

The use of a token, or more likely a train staff with an Annet's key, to release the frame would suggest that this is an intermediate location, i.e. not a block post.

In this case there would be no signals. The train would arrive, the crew would insert the staff and unlock the frame, carry out whatever shunting was required and then replace the levers to normal. 

This would allow the train staff to be removed and they would go on their way.

As the train was in possession of the token or staff it could not meet a conflicting train hence the absence of signals.

There were wayside stations with loops (for shunting purposes) that worked on this principle.

 

The use of signals would imply that the station was a block post and that it was therefore equipped with block instruments operated by a signalman.

This would imply that there was a crossing loop on a single line and, whilst this was the usually case, exceptions could be found.

Lossie Junction on the Great North of Scotland Railway had no loop and I believe that one of the stations on the Midland & Great Northern between Sutton Bridge and Wisbech was also a block post on a single line without a loop.

There are many other examples.

 

If you wish to cross passenger trains in the loop of Upbech then you will have to assume that it has passed a BoT inspection which would mandate the provision of safety equipment, including signals and token releasing block instruments such as the Tyers No6 instrument. The waters might be a little muddier if only goods trains were involved.

 

On a light railway economy would have been the paramount  consideration and no extra buildings, such as a signalbox, would have been provided.

The instruments could be kept in an office in the station buildings that was not accessible to the public and the equipment could be operated from an open frame on or near the platform, 

The County Donegal took this to extremes and the frame at Lough Eske would appear, to all intents and purposes, to have been in a hedgerow!

 

Hope that these views are of some interest,

 

Ian T

 

 

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That is really helpful. Upbech is not a block post and with no loop trains can't cross. At the moment a loco is needed to release a train but in time that won't be necessary.

 

I did wonder if the type of arrangement you mention would be adequate.

 

On the Wissington light railway they simply left notes attached to a post to let someone know where they were.

 

Many thanks

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The Wissington Light Railway was purely an industrial system and therefore a little different from the Wisbech & Upwell which I assume that Upbech is based upon.

 

The Wisbech & Upwell was worked by railwaymen and, originally, carried a passenger service.

Whilst I would not claim to be an expert on the Wissey, despite having worked at the factory for a year or two after leaving teaching, I would suspect that it was worked by factory employees.

This was the norm on the French beet factory systems where the locos were crewed by factory  engineers.

 

They spent the off season repairing locos and stock, just as all the factory equipment is pulled to pieces once the campaign has ended.

It takes a fair battering working 24/7 without stopping for roughly six months and things often became a little hairy by February.

I doubt that the "engineers" were any different from some of the cowboys that I worked with, as a fitter's mate.

In fact leaving a note on a post would have been a waste of time for some of them as I doubt whether they could even read!

 

As an aside, it is not generally realised, now, that beet factories such as Ely, and perhaps the Wissey and Lynn, also operated their own "navy".

Lighters were loaded with beet out on the remote drains and towed to the factories by small tugs for processing.

 

On a slightly more serious note, the Sand Hutton Light, which was similar to the Wissey in that it was operated by employees of the estate, used a dubious and highly illegal method of train control.

According to Household they simply placed a red disc on a nail on a white board to show that a section was occupied by a train.

When another train turned up it waited until the first one came back!

This system was used when the passenger train operated.

 

Household's attempts to describe this system in the railway press at the time were apparently suppressed on the orders of Sir Robert Walker, the owner, in case the BoT found out.

That might be a step too far for Upbech.

 

IanT

 

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Most shunting moves on the layout need to go in an out of the fiddle yard and as there are just two magnet positions I felt an uncoupling position in the fiddle yard might be useful. The cassettes are made of 3mm MDF so using either genuine S&W or Kadee magnets would not be ideal. However, I do have a few tiny magnets ordered from Ebay some time ago. Two have been positioned on a cassette that can be dedicated to shunting and in time more magnets in a suitable position for Kadees can be installed. Two small magnets seems to work ok, a third might be added later if needed.

 

IMG_20191013_155007235.jpg.a8ed2761dec38985e07ee4763a3bdc0b.jpg

 

Hopefully this will give greater operational flexibility although this operation will be off scene.

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I needed to create this linkage but no parts are provided in the Comet kit. 

 

IMG_20191015_213043896.jpg.88ad7468bb1236529b228a408c953a64.jpg

After getting some advice on the  'Wright writes' thread I have adapted the Bachmann part by opening up the holes so they can accept Gibson bushes. These can be opened out to go over a Markits crankpin on the wheel and a Gibson one at the other end; a piece fashioned out of a Gibson crankpin and scrap brass. This tiny bit of work took about two hours and some very good music.

 

IMG_20191018_203632340.jpg.3aeb5b76fd8769de267982f9fa686cea.jpg

Next week is the acid test trying to get it to work.

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I've decided to stop the Kadee usage on this layout. In principal it does work and the hinged kadee magnets work really well with S&W couplings.

 

However, in order to get the Kadees to work successfully on the layout the pins have to be set at a level that will foul the occupation crossing.

 

The solution? I will resurrect the Rickett Street layout and build a small urban layout specifically for Kadee couplings, this is what I originally intended. The experiment has been useful as I have gained some regauaged locos, stock and learnt how to set them up.

 

This layout will remain set in the late 40s early 50s. I think the cut off point will be arrival of the 4mts on the M&GN so I can run the two that I have eventually or they could end up on an East London urban layout as some were based on the LT&SR in the 50s. 

 

Who knows but it will be interesting finding out!

 

Martyn

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I've got the Kadee's working through refitting the magnets, I will get the diesels out for a run this weekend to check. The wagon that fouled the crossing will have its coupling raised, all the other wagons are ok with it and now seem to uncouple ok. to be honest I don't want to start another layout at the moment as plans are formulating for something very different to start probably next year. 

 

I use hinged magnets powered by DCC as seen below!

IMG_20191026_134354216.jpg.37d6796ea4ed0f1a38d63fa44709a36f.jpg

 

Obviously DCC is 'direct chord control.'

 

The weather is foul here today so I have bit the bullet and started on the point rodding, these parts are incredibly small with all work being done using a magnifying lamp but progress has been made that I will show soon.

IMG_20191026_134121813.jpg.6f1177ad1754636d746cc17f9a0e6b0b.jpg

 

My soldering skills are really being put to the test.

Edited by mullie
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With the Kadee's working I will build the layout so it can run in early 60s mode, I have wanted to model an East Anglian branch in the early early 60s ever since I bought my copy of Diesels in East Anglia by Doctor Allen.  Type twos worked a  variety of services including the type of branch freight seen here.

 

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D5054 was a March engine from 1959 to 61 so could have turned up at Upbech though is likely to be further detailed and renumbered. This loco is around fifteen years old.

 

This shot shows the Kadees working well although the coupling does need straightening up.

 

Wagon_kadee_1.jpg.e389a6208e3011e97a93568a81127cc2.jpg

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Finally bit the bullet and started the point rodding tonight having soldered up the cranks around a week ago. This tiny run represents around an hours work on top of around two hours soldering up and painting parts but I think it will be worth it.

 

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The board was moved indoors onto the dining room table, too cold in the garage. One of the joys of small layouts is the portability and that this small layout allows me to try point rodding without having too much to do so giving more chance of success.

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I nicked your idea for hinged magnets for a 009 layout I'm building, which uses Microtrains couplers (i.e. N-gauge Kadees). 

 

IMG_7594.JPG

 

The magnet is from two cupboard latches, the hinge arrangement knocked up from plasticard with a bolt for a hinge. The paperclip forms an adjustable (bendable) link to the dowel.

 

IMG_7595.JPG

 

The magnet is swung into the recess in the board, there is only a layer of brown paper under the sleepers here. The screws form end-stops for the dowel.

 

IMG_7596.JPG

 

The dowel runs the length of the board, emerging at the far end...

 

IMG_7597.JPG

 

Where it emerges within convenient reach, pushing in lowers the magnet and pulling out raises it, it has enough friction to hold it either way. The other dowel seen far right moves a sector plate at the back of the layout - but that's another story. 

 

Anyway it seems to work well, so thanks for the idea!

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15 minutes ago, mjcampbell said:

I nicked your idea for hinged magnets for a 009 layout I'm building, which uses Microtrains couplers (i.e. N-gauge Kadees). 

 

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IcatYZeTU1g/XZZsxy-SwkI/AAAAAAACPww/zyn30YsRs-0eDyRe8iP6Tp-ambDAziLJQCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/IMG_7594.JPG

 

The magnet is from two cupboard latches, the hinge arrangement knocked up from plasticard with a bolt for a hinge. The paperclip forms an adjustable (bendable) link to the dowel.

 

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v2tpdiea3xw/XZZsxyQ4qEI/AAAAAAACPws/U8bBsqSwh-YJWdTsl06U-xf7THAcRxtbACLcBGAsYHQ/s640/IMG_7595.JPG

 

The magnet is swung into the recess in the board, there is only a layer of brown paper under the sleepers here. The screws form end-stops for the dowel.

 

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YMJgLQwdM5A/XZZsx0W28eI/AAAAAAACPw0/37OKkg27Gw0FC84uiAv8eZvytQK8B5_EACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_7596.JPG

 

The dowel runs the length of the board, emerging at the far end...

 

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E5_r35V7_Fw/XZZsyq5l3eI/AAAAAAACPw4/QwUT4_RPf0orYDZVUBNZOD-EQKvPNHmqwCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/IMG_7597.JPG

 

Where it emerges within convenient reach, pushing in lowers the magnet and pulling out raises it, it has enough friction to hold it either way. The other dowel seen far right moves a sector plate at the back of the layout - but that's another story. 

 

Anyway it seems to work well, so thanks for the idea!

Looks great and it really seems to work in my experience.

 

I got the idea from the Kadee magnet instructions where it was suggested but didn't expect it to work with Spratt and Winkle couplings too.

 

Martyn

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Due to weekend commitments I often do my modelling during the week at the moment, Tuesday seems to be a good night. Point rodding finished tonight so I think some scenic work can now start. This small amount of rodding has taken hours, trouble is now it is there I doubt I will build a layout without it again where it is required.

 

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Edited by mullie
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The J39 chassis is now pretty much done. Some years ago I rebuilt the tender on a Mainly Trains etched chassis, it has had Gibson wheels fitted with some fibre washers but to be honest between the chassis and axle boxes everything is held in place. I'm not sure what modifications/improvements are needed to the Bachmann bodies but am quite tempted to model a Westinghouse fitted example as there seem to have been a few in my area during the layout time span. A copy of the relevant Yeadon's will soon be on its way here. I've started on the pick ups today and need to solder the crankpins as the chassis seems to be working ok.

 

IMG_20191124_155524462.jpg.3fac34818b182f9a4ab248d2cf2f95ea.jpg

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I superdetailed one years ago and found an article in MRJ by Iain RIce most useful. (can't remember which one off hand but I've got a copy somewhere)

Alex

 

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On 24/11/2019 at 19:47, wiggoforgold said:

I superdetailed one years ago and found an article in MRJ by Iain RIce most useful. (can't remember which one off hand but I've got a copy somewhere)

Alex

 

MRJ34 - the first MRJ I ever bought - 1989, what along time ago.

Andy

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I subscribe to MRJ so will check if it is available as a back issue. Thanks to those who have commented.

 

Martyn

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Upbech now has a station of sorts. I had been playing around with ideas and bits of balsa when I came up with the idea of a simple halt based on those that were built on the line into Yarmouth Beach during the thirties as seen in the Middleton Press book on the Melton Constable to Yarmouth line. Some had a single gas lamp, some didn't. The bench is Wills, the fencing Hornby, all things I already had. I do have quite a nice gas lamp somewhere but can't find it, the station sign is Scalescenes in LNER pre war brown. I think I've got close with the colour though it still needs some blending in. The balsa is coloured with indian ink and pure alcohol in a thin wash, because it dries so quickly you can give it a few washes until you are happy with the colour, I don't add too much ink at a time.

 

IMG_20191130_133206638.jpg.12739ed85e251c0edba6f9c252e75053.jpg

 

Made a nice break from chassis building.

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Another scenic feature started. I am trying to use things I already have so have created an occupation crossing using some old Langley gates with some new posts. Still work to do.

 

IMG_20191130_133225788.jpg.b727179a6411d08d4e7ab2c8452b2d9a.jpg

 

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This week I will be extending the layout by around 2 inches along the back to give more of a sense of space, the scenic part of the layout is only around 32" long so anything will help. I hope this will mean I can curve the back scene this time

 

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This  arrived earlier this week, the J39 article was about the Wills kit so of only limited interest but the rest of the magazine is good. There is an article by a Pendon modeller on creating trees in a relatively short time and an article on operation by Frank Dyer which should be a good read. Well worth the few pounds I paid for it on Ebay.

 

IMG_20191201_203235576.jpg.38c4d6132c7a2fb0077be8a0b6cae12b.jpg

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A big moment, the J39 has run along the test track tonight. This is in DC mode with the coupling rods still temporarily held in place. I use a slightly unusual method of weighting the loco, I get as much lead as possible between the frames so keeping the centre of gravity low. This is quite easy with a rigid Comet chassis.

 

IMG_20191206_204215624_HDR.jpg.fbff8a54b2fc977d8f8b9a27acd263f0.jpg

 

 

 

Next job, fit the crankpins, Zimo decoder, one of the budget ones, and a flywheel. The Bachman lubricator drive is very overscale but it will have to do for now. I am please to have got it running and that is something i can look at as my skills develop.

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Small steps!

 

Crankpins soldered today, chassis lubricated and run in on the mk 2 rolling road.

 

IMG_20191207_162329381.jpg.871019a956df4ad0bb9c76a8f941b2f5.jpg

 

Fitting the chip tonight.

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The Mk 2 rolling road is eminently saleable, Martyn, as an affordable alternative to all those complex and expensive roller and so on things. Brilliant. I do enjoy lateral thinking, but perhaps this is actually longitudinal?

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3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The Mk 2 rolling road is eminently saleable, Martyn, as an affordable alternative to all those complex and expensive roller and so on things. Brilliant. I do enjoy lateral thinking, but perhaps this is actually longitudinal?

Sadly I won't be able to give up the day job, a few copper clad sleepers, some rail, a scouring pad all mounted on a piece of ply. Apart from the controller equipped with crocodile clips you could have change out of a fiver!

 

Somwhere in this thread, a number of times it says I model to a budget. Every thing I need has to be ordered in, my wife has given up asking what all the parcels are , this week it was Woodland Scenics ballast, an Olfa cutter and some glue and glaze. Christmas and birthdays are a chance to order something more substantial and this year Father Christmas will deliver parts for another interesting project. Watch this space as they say.

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