Colin parks Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hi Following with interest but being a midlander I'm far from knowledgeable on these EMUs but have you checked out the Genesis kits EMU front, they state that they are for CIG units also. http://pluto.servers...uemart&Itemid=3 Regards Thanks for the suggestion Dave, but I shall make my own plasticard ends. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hi Colin, I took a few shots recently of a CIG driving trailer. Let me know if you want more. Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hi Colin, I took a few shots recently of a CIG driving trailer. Let me know if you want more. Cheers Tom Hi Tom, Yes, post as many pictures as you like. It would help me and anyone else interested in modelling a 4 CIG. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 After the added complications of curved ends etc., there has been a little bit of luck to compensate. Taking a razor saw to the class 73 motor bogie mount, four vertical cuts were made, separating the mount from the chassis. A 1mm wide strip of plastic was taken off the bottom edge. The resultant mount was found to fit perfectly in the slots on the Bachmann coach chassis which locate the bottom of the coach sides. All that will need to be done is omit the locating strip on the sides at the position of the mount. The whole thing is shown just clipped in for now. The opening in the floor needs some refinement, then the mount can be glued in place. A small piece of floor plus the DCC socket mounting lugs from the 73 chassis will be glued on to the coach floor when I'm sure of the best position. But then: This particular coach (gosh, maybe they will all have) has a pronounced bow upwards in the floor. It will be tricky to get the bogies sitting correctly. The roof, when clipped on, pulls the ends back to vertical and straightens the floor. I will have to retain the roof clips (above the corridor connections) or the body will not go together properly. I can see that the only course of action with the ends will be to file off all the detail and add a 10 thou. plasticard overlay. This will create a pocket for the roof end clips to locate into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 PM'd to Colin, But well worth adding, here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39304 Regards, Ceptic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 A couple of comparative roof shots of a Re-furbed 4-BEP. The differences are subtle, but, they are there. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 A couple of comparative roof shots of a Re-furbed 4-BEP. The differences are subtle, but, they are there. Regards. Many thanks for those photos Frank. Feel free to post as many as you like. The position of underframe equipment is another mystery that needs to be cleared up - especially the position of things on the motor coach underframe. Also. which would be the 'A' end of a 4 CIG? I'm sure you know. I have already altered the ends of the motor coach. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As far as can recall, On a 4-CIG, End 'A' was the DTC coupled / next to the MBS. How this worked out with the 3 car units,...I'll have to ask the Man who knows. Interesting question, all the same.. Cheers, Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2012 on this page: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class423_03.html (i know it's about the VEPs) it mentions the 'A' end of the MBS being the van end,( coupled to the TS, 'B' end coupled to DTC) - the formation being DTC-TS-MBS-DTC. i wonder if the CIGs were the same? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As far as can recall, On a 4-CIG, End 'A' was the DTC coupled / next to the MBS. How this worked out with the 3 car units,...I'll have to ask the Man who knows. Interesting question, all the same.. Cheers, Frank Hi Frank And Colin. This link to the SEmG pages on the 421/CIG's seem to bear out the fact that the A end ( Van end ) is coupled to the TS and there fore the B end is coupled to the DTC. http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class421_04.html HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Many thanks to Meld, Keefer and Ceptic for clearing up the end 'A' and end 'B' matter. Were there tchnical reasons for the driver having to know which end was which? Anyway, the MBSO has had the ends overlaid to get the effect of a bowed-end. The model has now been wired up with the DCC decoder. Weight will have to be placed over the motor bogie mount to get more traction, though I'm far from needing to think about that for now. Next on the jobs list is sanding off the roof detail - goodbye ribs. I am aware that the roof overhang has been reduced to less than is prototypical, still thinking how to solve that issue. At pick-up bogie end of this coach, the Bachmann NEM coupling socket and close-coupling mechanism have been retained. I did have to cut part of the wheel keeper plate away and secure the end with an 8 BA bolt. On the motorised bogie, it's not going to be so simple to attach the NEM socket and have the close-coupling feature. Perhaps with a simple pivot on that bogie and the Bachmann parts on the adjacent DTCL, the result will be OK. Having looked at the David Jenkinson book again, I am wondering if sprung corridor conections would be possible. The pictures are not quite where they should have been in this post, can't move them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Some more pics; Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 And a few more underneath it; This big box you would think is a water tank. But no, according to the driver who took me round it's the reversing gear box or something like that (I think he said it's pneumatic). Cheers Tom Note, all pictures in this thread were taken under supervision and with permission. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 And the all important corridor width; Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks to you Tom for so many priceless detail photos. It makes it a lot clearer where all the smaller parts go. There must be a brake cylinder somehwhere on each underframe too. I had assumed that it would be like the 4 CEP, but then it's dangerous to make such assumptions. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi I used this when researching the underframe for my n gauge 4CIG. http://www.semgonline.com/files/421equip.pdf Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi I used this when researching the underframe for my n gauge 4CIG. http://www.semgonlin...es/421equip.pdf Cheers Paul Many thanks Paul, lots of useful pictures. I missed that webpage when I was looking for images. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2012 regards having an 'A' and 'B' end with the formation in a certain order, is it not to do with the arrangement of the jumper cables? on the bufferbeam you have 1 power jumper on one side with 3 control jumpers on t'other side. on certain vehicles (might be the TSO), the jumpers are 'handed' (on the same side at each end, instead of at oppsite corners) which means they have to be the right way round to connect to the next vehicle, in the correct order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Thanks to keefer and you others for clarifying the end 'A' question but: In my plans book it states that one DTCL in each 4 CIG set had the innermost first class compartment deignated as second class. Is this true? When did this apply - from new? Until when? Was there a rule as to which end was so classified? Anybody know? I might be thinking well ahead, but it makes a difference to the length of yellow stripe applied to one DTCL. Signing off now, tonight it's side protection board making for me. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2012 the DTC coupled to the MBS has 3 1st and 1 2nd class compartment. they would seem to have had this from new, pics of green units (with yellow 1st class stripe) in 1966 on p.48/49 of 'southern EMUs 1948-83' (marsden/ian allan) it states that the extra 2nd class compt. was to 1st class dimensions (7'2" presumably) the EMU diagram book shows DTC as dia. 453 and the 2nd class compt. as an 8-seater (arm rests not fitted/removed/sewn-up) the other DTC is dia.452, with 4 6-seater compts. does seem a bit odd in that they seem to have been built with both ends having 4 1st class compts. another comment i've seen about the DTCs is that they were unusual in that 1st class passengers had to go through 2nd class to get to the toilet, convention seems to have been 1st class accomodation is nearest the toilet (c.f. the layout of the VEP DTCs, with 1st class at the inner end) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK1EMU Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am liking this i scratch build 4 cigs i have 2 units in the 2000 southern livery and a green 3 cig (1498) and a 4 cig soon to be a 4 big in nse i post some pics later . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am liking this i scratch build 4 cigs i have 2 units in the 2000 southern livery and a green 3 cig (1498) and a 4 cig soon to be a 4 big in nse i post some pics later . Hi MK1EMU. Welcome to RMweb. A BIG opportunity to see some of the Masters of railway modelling, at work. (Be) Like me,...Watch,.. and Learn. Cheers . Edited, To avoid mis-interpretation,...( Me ?, I'm Jack of all c**k ups... Master of S.F.A.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted February 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2012 Colin With your project in mind I've had a quick look through one of my hard drives for scanned images of CIGs. I came up with three reasonable shots which may be of use to you: East Croydon; December 1982 Redhill; Summer 2000 Basingstoke; Summer 2000 I know I have loads more, but not all have been scanned. I'll fire up my old Mac over the weekend and have a look there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Very nice work so far Colin; I am of course very interested to see how you finish off your donor class 73 bogies. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Very nice work so far Colin; I am of course very interested to see how you finish off your donor class 73 bogies. Cheers Simon Hi Simon, The Mk. 6 motor bogies will be different to your 73's. A 4 cig has no sand boxes. This means that the linkages at each end of the side frames need to be modelled. On the plus side, I don't have pick-ups or cabling runs to contend with on the motor bogie frames. The brake gear is going to be modelled more in line with the wheels. Due to the shape of the Hornby/Lima motor bogie transom mouldings, it will be tricky to get the brake shoe hangers in line with the wheels. In P4 this won't be a problem. (Not the first time I have written that phrase today!) Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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