Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Mornin' all, The ambitions of TG1 have had to be reined in due to health issues and the need to ensure a harmonious home life with plenty of outings & holidays for Is. TG2 starts on page 16. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Wow, that trackwork will be impressive once complete! Will the two lines over the river be separate bridges? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm just trying to get a "handle" on the size of this project - is it 12ft(fiddle)+16ft(scenic section)+12ft(fiddle)long and 8ft wide(scenic section)with 16ft x 4ft(top)dedicated to the river? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hi Richard, Cary, The two bridges are of the curving girder bridge type often seen in 'this neck of the woods', one carrying the Exeter to Barnstaple line and the other the Exeter to Plymouth route away from the junction. The scenic area (river valley with sloping sides) is 16 feet x 10 (inc. the width of the scenic 'barn doors' with a wide River Torridge winding through as shown on the plan. The concept of the trains passing through a large scenic area is as important to me as the trains themselves. The 3 12ft x 2ft fiddle yard boards aren't shown on the diagram above but the 3 arms of the 'Y' will each have one to receive and despatch their associated trains. The layout dimensions overall will be nearer 58ft overall length x 10ft wide. Here is a link to my U tube site with some videos of current progress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7G36dZgS5k&list=UUG-QFP8YsXv7rkxsLVdZrpw&index=1&feature=plcp The tool for creating the 1 inch holes in the aluminium plate is called a 'slug buster' by Green-lee of America. Baseboard locating dowels by the EM gauge society are a snug fit in the holes which gives a precise way of locating the baseframes relative to each other. The second video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbFkSHXlCF4&list=UUG-QFP8YsXv7rkxsLVdZrpw&index=2&feature=plcp shows the plate glass reference surface, 2 of the Dapol class 22s waiting for their P4 wheelsets to return from Ultrascale, Euthymol metal toothpaste tubes being readied for use as wagon sheets on the clay opens and the smaller of the two workbenches created for use in the conservatory to take advantage of the great modelling light. The 6ft x 2ft sheet of 8mm plate glass was an expensive investment but once accurately levelled gives a marvellous reference surface for building large 'flat' baseframes. The Templot plan is coming on but I haven't worked out how to display it on this site yet. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Evenin' all, This is the current state of play with the Templot trackplan Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Mornin' all, For anyone contemplating the aluminium section route to layout construction I've already had to adopt a few strategies with this approach: when using the slug-busting tool a 25mm spanner is required and the force needed to move the cutter through the aluminium can lead to a slight bend in one face of the 'L'section. The remedy has been to use a set of aluminium jaw extensions on the bench vice adjacent to where the tool is being used to maintain the lower edge of the L section. The jaw extensions don't mark the work piece and prevent its deformation. The second bench vice has a set of plywood jaw extensions again to prevent the steel jaws from marking the aluminium. Good quality 100 or coarser 60 grade MIRKA 'wet and dry' sanding sheets held in place flat on the plate glass surface with DUCK tape provide an excellent flat surface for sanding off any imperfections in the work (esp. longer sections) as it progresses. Countersunk machine screws with their associated washers and nuts are excellent fasteners for this type of work. I use Nylok nuts to prevent the nuts working loose over time. Drill bits tend to wander on the flat surface of the aluminium so I use a centre punch then 1mm centering drill to provide an accurate location for drilling bigger holes. I haven't found (so far) that any expensive machinery is required for this route. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Mornin' all, The maximum curvature on the twin and single lines throughout TG for passenger trains will be 20 chains with a 40 mph speed restriction on either route. On the freight runround loop behind the up platform and throughout the sidings on the down side this can tighten to 10 chains. Signalling will be a mixture of upper and lower quadrant LSWR semaphore types with most components being supplied by MSE. TG 'A' signal box will effectively be a yard box at the Exeter end of the formation whilst TG 'B' will be the junction box. The Okehampton line, North Cornwall line and North Devon lines books by the Irwell Press are proving invaluable for prototypical information and period pictures. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Aft'noon all, Some more progress to view at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9hzs7BaMoc&feature=youtu.be essentially the first pair of baseframe end plates are complete, work starts immediately on the 2nd set and should be much quicker due to techniques learnt with the first. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have no doubt the trackwork will look gorgeous - but am slightly concerned that it will actually be rather "good" for the area being modelled. Since both lines to Barnstaple and Plymouth appear to be single, then every train would have had to stop - or at least slow - for a single line token, staff or similar. Thus those lovely sweeping curves and high-maintenance crossings adjoining the bridges look a bit of a luxury. Sorry to be negative, but the Southern and its predecessors were really rather good at not wasting money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello there, The protoypical curvature at Coleford jnc was 20 chains and had a 40mph speed restriction to and from the Plymouth route, this is the setting that I've used with Templot and is what you see on the plan. I've lowered the speed of the Barnstaple route from 55 to 40mph too by introducing the same 20 chain radius curves and agree whole heartedly that the locos on this route weren't fitted with tablet catchers so would have needed to slow to approx 25mph to collect or deliver the single line token. I wouldn't regard 40mph turnouts as unusual or unduly expensive (even for the LSWR) on passenger routes and would be more inclined to re-introduce the double track layout throughout as per the prototype as a solution. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted February 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2012 This seems a very ambitious plan & looks to have a lot of potential. It's rare to see a 4mm layout giving the "train in the landscape" effect - more often seen with 2mm scales. ....... would be more inclined to re-introduce the double track layout throughout as per the prototype as a solution. Looking at the plan, I'd be very much inclined to do the same. This would give more distinction between the Plymouth "main" and Barnstaple "secondary" routes, and be more true to the real life situation. Is there any reason for taking the Plymouth line down to a single track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Rich, The original route was the Barnstaple line with the Plymouth route being added later. The single track sections are to add operating interest and combine with the curving single track girder bridges which appeal to me. Ian is quite correct to point out that 40mph turnouts and a 25mph restriction for token purposes are a little contradictory. This project is an ongoing challenge to unite my favourite aspects of the LSWR and I'd also like it to be as prototypical as possible, whilst being an entertaining layout to watch and to operate. I'll look to double the Plymouth route and retain the Barnstaple line as seen on the plan. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Mornin' all, I've fiddled with Templot and doubled the Plymouth route, see below I've managed to shear the main bolt on the slugbuster too, once I've established the thread size I'll be ordering a couple of stainless steel bolts (later advice from Greenlee was to order a couple of ordinary replacement bolts and refrain from trying to 'punch' a double thickness of aluminium, also to grease the main bolt) to strengthen the tool. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 Bravo! You've retained all the elegance of the original design - but now it makes much more "sense". While Ilfracombe and Barnstaple were key destinations, Bude, Padstow and Plymouth together slightly outweigh them in importance, so the double track towards Okehampton looks much more realistic. As it happens, I managed at last to travel by train to Barnstaple only a fortnight ago - while my last trip via Okehampton was in August 1965! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Mornin' Ian, Being a product of 1966 I didn't get much opportunity with the 'long lost' railways of North Devon first hand, maybe that is a part of the 'draw' now. I have managed to cycle those that form the Tarka (and Camel trails) though. Also, I've been advised to visit the Ilfracombe museum to see its railway collection, so a return trip along the A39 from an overnight in Wells is on the cards for this year. I'd like to combine the trip with Lyd appearing on the Lynton & Barnstaple with the 2 rebuilt L&B coaches (their finish date dictating Lyd's appearance). Are your visits to the area for recreation? Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hi Dave I think my first visit to the area was en route Port Isaac Road in 1956, not yet 8 years old. My parents had holidayed there during the war, and while money was a bit short in the '50s, they managed that fortnight by ACE. It was repeated in 1961, by which time I was a locospotter, and visited Wadebridge & Bodmin, seeing the three 0298s inter alia. In '63 they bought a car, so that was that - like so many other families. But we stayed in Port Isaac again in 1965, and I had some sort of rover ticket that enabled me to traverse most of the now-diesel near system - I certainly got to Bude by train, but not the Barnstaple route. My recent trip was part of a social few days - our first break for more than 12 months due to domestic health issues (not mine). I already knew the heritage work that had been done at Crediton, but was pleased to see the pristine green signage at Barnstaple. In the '80s Deb and I holidayed in the area on several occasions, and did a certain amount of gricing of the old routes and extant stations etc. We also cycled the Camel Trail in 1997. A career in the industry, including some time as infrastructure planner for Southern Region, taught me a little about track layouts, I suppose, so I apologise if my comments seemed harsh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 ......not at all, now is the time to have these exchanges. My background is as a heavy freight driver off Buxton shed in the 80s, followed by a spell as a full time traction instructor at the Crewe school. Later I moved into Control office work (and still reside there) for EWS then Freightliner Heavy Haul. Loads of useful experience but little in the way of LSWR track planning. I accept that compromises will be the order of the day but the best end result is all that matters. You are fortunate to have sampled so much of the LSWR first hand. I need to check out the Crediton site on my trip too. Are you living in Le Mans? Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 We are about 25 miles NE of Le Mans. Moved here in 2004 on full retirement - I'd taken my pension 18 months before and worked part-time while we did our house in Kent up for sale. And, yes, we are very interested in sportscars. I also have a Control background - Redhill/Croydon 1968-73. A great place for learning about the railway - and learning to work with others! I am part-way through building a model purporting to be Halwill Junction, albeit with Peco code 75, but certainly know all about compromises in model terms. Hopefully this warmer weather will enable me to get back out in the barn and get a bit more done. Other projects include some French HO, with a scratchbuilt model of the local station, and On30 impressions of Ophir, Colorado on the Rio Grande Southern - oh, and most of the barn is taken up with US HO, eastern Colorado in the '50s, Rock Island and Rio Grande. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 .....a good job that you're retired, a wonder that you remember where you're at on each one. We stayed with relatives in Woodstock, Ontario in 2007 and I remember the mournful hooter sounds of the freights crossing the grades around the town during the night. More recently we stayed with friends in Mountain Home, Idaho and I had Nancy pacing freight traffic in the car whilst I filmed the action from the passenger seat, great memories! I have a great DVD of French narrow gauge steam (amongst others) from the railway roundabout series recently re-released....those Mallets were impressive! Have you modelled the whole station area at Halwill or the junctions too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 Well, Halwill, despite being in the middle of not-very-much, was famous for its operations - and that is what I aspire to mimic. So we have almost the full layout of running lines, and can make almost all the prototype moves, including the key bay-to-Padstow, parallel with down platform-to-Bude. I have ignored the WW2 sidings, and the yard is flipped, and I'm still not certain I will get a turntable in, although all those Ns are going to look a bit silly going tender-first towards either Padstow or Bude if I don't. The crews would have hated driving unprotected into the North Atlantic gales! I haven't space for the Torrington branch run-round, but do have the platform at least. iL Dottore of this parish has built me a very nice model of the unusual signalbox, as well as a super pub, so kosher buildings are going to add a great deal of atmosphere. The total length is about 16' for the scenic section, while off-scene storage is almost infinite - I use the US HO layout for staging Halwill, and Halwill for staging some of the US HO! Issues that have yet to be resolved include uncoupling passenger coaches - I seem to have an awful lot of Hornby Maunsells - when splitting the down services. I use Kadees (old US HO habits die hard!) and will need to do something clever with magnets, as the corridor connectors make access a nightmare in the platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 .....I had to resort to the layout diagram in the Irwell Press tome on the North Cornwall in order to follow your reference to the parallel move. I've always been impressed with the layout and general situation at Halwill. Are you modelling the gradients? When it comes to remote coupling and uncoupling of stock I favour the Alex Jackson method with the electro magnets mainly for the near invisible nature of the drawhooks. Having said that I only have the components/jigs thus far and have yet to produce a fully working example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 .....I had to resort to the layout diagram in the Irwell Press tome on the North Cornwall in order to follow your reference to the parallel move. I've always been impressed with the layout and general situation at Halwill. Are you modelling the gradients? When it comes to remote coupling and uncoupling of stock I favour the Alex Jackson method with the electro magnets mainly for the near invisible nature of the drawhooks. Having said that I only have the components/jigs thus far and have yet to produce a fully working example. The gradients are being gently ignored! Actually, the running qualities of the Maunsells is so remarkable that even though the spirit level shows negligible slope, the coaches feel they know better! Fortunately the Vans C seem to have a much more crude inside bearing (a kind term, really) on the axle that drags enough to hold a rake in the platform. Kadees bear a passing resemblance to a rather big buckeye, I always like to think! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 I do hope that modellers' licence is justly exercised when the Kernow O2s and Gate Stock are safely delivered. I have held back from some of the R4 Maunsells; apart from the near-perfect products in lined olive green, I cannot bring myself to live with Margate's current interpretation of malachite. But then for you chaps working in post war liveries, choice is in abundance. Am following with interest! I fear we are hijacking another's thread here, Peter, and risk excommunication! Briefly, I am less offended by the mysterious shade of malachite, and have a number of sets in such livery, plus a couple in crimson/cream. There is already an 0298, and an O2 and Gate Stock sound just right for Torrington! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted February 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hi Rich, The original route was the Barnstaple line with the Plymouth route being added later. The single track sections are to add operating interest and combine with the curving single track girder bridges which appeal to me. ... I'll look to double the Plymouth route and retain the Barnstaple line as seen on the plan. Cheers Dave Strictly, you are right about seniority of the lines but originally both lines were double track at Coleford with the Barnstaple route only becoming single line at Copplestone! Nevertheless I do like the new plan & personally I think it makes more sense this way. I'm sure this will be a long term project but I'd really love to be able to see this at some time in the future.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hi Rich, I've no issue with the occasional open day to share a beer or two but we'll need to make worthwhile progress first. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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