RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6, 2012 By the way Ian...happy haircut :-) When do we get to see some progress pics of Halwill...or have I missed where they already are? Hopefully getting into the barn to clear decks/spiders etc will include a rush of tidying and some photography. This miserable weather - albeit the rain is very necessary for the agriculture - is not helping to make the unheated barn much fun, though. And Deb has me marked down for shifting stuff into her new bedroom this morning, once I've been to feed her horses. Even with the new stairlift she can't carry much up on her own. And we've about 3 hours of the Spa race from yesterday to watch. But then she'll watch the 1000 Guineas meeting from Newmarket this afternoon, so perhaps that's my big chance! Retirement really wasn't supposed to be so complicated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Morning all, Considerable time is being consumed at the moment on the fettling of the Templot trackwork plans. The scenic section is currently whilst the west end fiddle yards are the meeting point of the scenic and fiddle panels is critical because the spacing of the two fiddle yards at that point has to be maintained for the linked traverser to fit at the other end. A current thought is to mirror the traverser orientation with the first scenic section track panel so that precision fitting is more easily achieved and the difficulty of track ends in relation to sides and ends of baseframes/panels is reduced. The non-track scenic panels can easily be fitted around the all important track frames/panels. Testing of the construction technique of the first baseframe using 1mm aluminium sheet as the deck with T section stretchers at 1ft intervals is suggesting that 2mm sheet will have to be used due to the deflection of the 1mm under load. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Mornin' all, The design of the west end fiddle yards has now progressed to Research is currently based on another excellent Irwell Press tome...'The North Devon line' (courtesy of Nick Allsop) which is proving a mine of valuable information. With the arrival of the Class 22 P4 wheelsets the next order has been placed with Ultrascale, this is for the Hornby T9 and includes crankpins. The re-wheeling will not be straightforward (surprise, surprise) with some work on the T9 body required to accomodate the P4 sets and outside cranks within its narrow confines. This challenge also applies on a bigger scale to the Beattie well tank by Dapol. The second part of the order is for Maunsell wheelsets for the 2 coach rake forming one of the T9s principle trains. A visit to the Tarka trail between Torrington and Bideford is planned to check out the curving girder bridge construction which will appear in two forms on TG. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY NORWOOD Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hi Dave it's going to look good. RAY70B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hi Ray, The timescale is open ended but the intention is solid. I've not designed a layout like this before so there is a fair degree of trial and error...I'd rather the progress be less speedy if it means that the end result is the right one. Thanks for the encouragement. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Mornin' all, A range of experiments to accurately secure the T section stretchers to the T section longitudinals and ultimately the aluminium sheet deck is leading towards large flat headed machine screws (flange head button type with a flat back to the head) being used to clamp the sheet to the stretchers at suitable intervals. This poses the risk of deforming the sheet at the point at which it is clamped and presents the additional problem of spacing the screws to avoid the track but careful positioning and checking should minimise the potential issues. The cork sheet will then mask most of each fastening. The track positions are now being marked onto the aluminium sheet. C&L are supplying the P4 flextrack in 25m packs and the cork sheets in 1ft by 3ft pieces whilst AALCO are delivering the 2mm aluminium sheet and Westfield fasteners the associated fittings. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted May 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2012 Are you sure that your not building a jet plane Dave? I'm in awe at the engineering behind this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi Chris, I'll let you take the first test flight!! My motivation is simple...I haven't got endless space to accommodate what is an ambitious layout so all baseframes need to be strong and compact for their generous surface area. I focus heavily on the technique for the first and simply aim to repeat it for the other frames. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Only just found this thread - looks like an excellent project - looking forward to seeing more developments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi Tim, Welcome to the thread.....progress slow but sure. I'm looking forward to examining the low curving girder bridge near Torrington as it should provide a basic design for the two on TG. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Mornin' all, More progress with the Templot scenic section track plan...see This subtle work is to ensure adjacent track spacings, geometry, minimum curvature and track positions relative to sides of baseframes. At the Exeter end of the formation the divergence of the 3 tracks is to pass beneath a 3 arch stone bridge typical of the area before the up and down lines plunge into the twin bore tunnels beneath the valley side/scenic break prior to the Exeter end fiddle yard. The divergence on the Plymouth arm of the formation is to enter the twin bores of the tunnel forming the scenic break/valley side and to mask the double junction entrance to that fiddle yard. Current aluminium work is to ensure that the upper surface of the T section stretchers are absolutely flat for securing to the flat underside of the sheet. Some lengths are almost flat to begin with whereas others need various amounts of 'flatting' across the MIRKA wet and dry sheets on the plate glass surface. The M4 machine screws with the large flat backed head have arrived from Westfield and appear perfect for the job. The technique of using these machine screws to secure the stretchers to the sheet deck is working well. I'm spacing the screws to avoid the track but in any case the depth of the cork sheet (on which the track will sit) is greater than the profile of the heads above the sheet. Thank goodness for angle grinders and fine high speed slitting disks, it makes the shaping and profiling of the aluminium sheet easy. The fiddle yard frames are basic rectangles but the scenic section track frames will have profiled aluminium sheet trackbeds to match the shape of the track layout. Once the polystyrene landscape has been sculpted to the edge of the trackbeds then the 'feel' of a railway driven through the landscape should emerge. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Aft'noon all, The principle trackwork baseframes on the scenic section will need to be aligned and arranged something like this (pardon the use of vertical straight track pieces as approximate baseframe markers) The individual baseframe lengths and widths have been modified to suit the trackwork and will all be at or within the 6ft x 2ft max dimension. The non-track scenic frames can be dimensioned to fit. The orientation of the 2nd frame from the left hand side has now changed to avoid the curving bridges having a join in them. This was achieved by turning it through 90 degrees and resizing, it is now similar to the 3rd frame from the left. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Aft'noon all, I shan't be shedding the Templot 'L' plates anytime soon as a test printing of part of the scenic section has revealed a few issues. Most significantly the track centre spacing varies somewhat in the prototypical period pictures contained within the Irwell press (IP) books and I'm keen to get the feel 'just right'. The complete print for just the scenic section will run to 84 A4 sheets, however, the good news is that the gentle prototypical curves translate very well and give a truly graceful feel to the layout. Having the actual floor plan for the trackwork will enable various other dimensions to be checked such as space for the width and length of the platforms and potential signal sites to be marked in. Anyone interested in the niceties of TG and Templot can find more on Templot club. Crucially, the first 50ml tins of SR coach green and primer have arrived from Phoenix paints which means that the adjustable supports, baseframe sides/end fences and scenic section 'barn doors' will appear fairly rapidly in the correct livery with TG branding. I'm looking forward to the second week of June and the new reprint of the North Cornwall book by the IP. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Evenin' all, Some valuable assistance via Templot club today has seen much important detail filled in on the crossings and slips of the trackplan, see this example Torr Giffard timeshift. In order to include some particularly interesting (to me) coaching stock and liveries within the scope of this project I've widened the time period for the sequence of trains running through the layout to 1951-1971. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Evenin' all, The first Crimson & Cream Hornby Maunsells are now on order for TG and will form set 27 (2 coach P set). We've booked accommodation near Padstow for the Autumn so that the filming and measuring of the curved girder bridge on the Tarka trail near Weare Giffard can be fitted in with just a small diversion off the A39. Hopefully, plenty of walking on the former LSWR routes to be had too esp. the Camel trail into Padstow. I fully intend to take up Darren on his kind invitation to see his layout 'Torrington' at first hand. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Evenin' all, Some more aluminium work progress to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF0TZPTaO68&feature=youtu.be The biggest engineering challenge with TG is the linked traverser and the fit of the closed circle of baseframes (inc. the linked fiddle yards and the linking frame at the start of the scenic section) at the Western end of the layout. Expansion in the heat of some exhibition halls is an important factor and allowances within TG's engineering will need to take account of its effects. The longest aluminium sections on the layout being the L section longitudinals of the linked traverser, these are 6ft 8in long with the additional 8 inches helping to protect the overhang of both turntable cradles when rotated at either outer extremity of either fiddle yard . The clip shows the 2 long sections bolted together for 'flatting' across the diagonal of the plate glass surface, 60 grade wet & dry helping to reduce the time taken to reach the required finish. The critical areas of the sections have the squiggles marked on the surface and indicate where the 2ft L section end plates of the adjoining fiddle yard frames will join to the traverser. Four locating dowels on one length of aluminium will certainly be a test when setting up the layout. The T section stretchers are next for 'flatting' and will be positioned just outside the 6ft fitting length of the traverser to avoid impeding the turntables/traversers at the extremities of their travel. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 HI Have you seen the book called Lines to Torrington a very good book that covers the whole line from Barnstaple to halwell http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/john%2Bnicholas/lines%2Bto%2Btorrington/3366368/&sa=U&ei=E1zFT9KsCs268gPP9bXMCg&ved=0CBYQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHLDPS5RFYY2uSwygwQFOlV0CBWmw One of the best book done on the line IMO. Keep you the good work and i will be following this layout on here. All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 The first Crimson & Cream Hornby Maunsells are now on order for TG and will form set 27 (2 coach P set). We've booked accommodation near Padstow for the Autumn so that the filming and measuring of the curved girder bridge on the Tarka trail near Weare Giffard can be fitted in with just a small diversion off the A39. Hopefully, plenty of walking on the former LSWR routes to be had too esp. the Camel trail into Padstow. The crimson and cream coaches are gorgeous, so you will not be disappointed. Look out for the Bogie B non-gangwayed van, just appearing from Hornby, which is a key item in the make-up of the early-morning news train from Waterloo. As far as the Camel Trail is concerned, I think both Padstow and Wadebridge offer bike-hire specifically for this. We - then in our 40s - found the bikes a great way to see the whole trail in one day, getting almost up to the top of the slope to Wenfordbridge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi Darren, Ian, Thanks for the book recommendation- I've ordered a used copy from ABE books. I'll look out for the van Ian.... I do have a similar sounding vehicle in kit form by Ratio. I first cycled part of the Tarka trail (Bideford to Yarde) some 5 years ago and the experience probably accounts for my desire to include parts of the scenery on TG. I took my own cycle on the last trip to Padstow and did the Camel trail in four separate sections before breakfast each morning...a lovely time of day to be out and about. The area around Little Petherick Creek being a particular favourite. The date shift for the layout had to happen once I started researching the project in depth and realised that I would be denying myself such delights as a T9 on a crimson and cream P set. The challenging aspect of the 1951 to 1971 date range is still the same....giving the impression that the Plymouth route only serves Meldon quarry in the latter period. The reinstatement of the Boscarne jcn to Wadebridge and Padstow line may be some time away but for for me it can't come soon enough. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 The crimson and cream coaches are gorgeous, so you will not be disappointed. Look out for the Bogie B non-gangwayed van, just appearing from Hornby, which is a key item in the make-up of the early-morning news train from Waterloo. As far as the Camel Trail is concerned, I think both Padstow and Wadebridge offer bike-hire specifically for this. We - then in our 40s - found the bikes a great way to see the whole trail in one day, getting almost up to the top of the slope to Wenfordbridge! You're right Ian...the brake comp. arrived 5 mins ago and it is lovely. The colour images that I've seen of these in action in the mid 50s do however suggest that I've got some weathering/toning down to do though. The imminent reprint of the North Cornwall Railway has already been ordered from IP....coffee table space cleared, real ale waiting! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Aft'noon all, The ordering of the components for the linked traverser is underway. I'm working on the idea of having 2 handwheels amidships on the inner side of the frame (easily accessible when operating the layout) one for each traverser. Each handwheel will operate the equivalent of a scissor jack on its side within the frame so that the screw thread motion across the frame is transferred through 90 degrees into a linear, finely adjustable movement for the traverser. M10 left and right hand threads will combine within the 'jack' to give a double response to each movement of the handwheel, the opposing threads being linked end on by a 'barrel wire strainer' a fencing gadget which has the all important M10 threads (right hand and left hand) at each extremity. The guide for the T section base of each traverser will be a common aluminium channel formed by 2 L sections mounted back to back across the full length of the traverser frame, in which the T section will slide. The rotating cradle or turntable will then sit atop and pivot via a central dowel on each traverser. An offset crank will be used to ensure that the amount of screw thread travel in the jack matches the 3ft of linear movement required to access the 11 fiddle yard roads and connect with the other traverser. Allfix of Poole are supplying the left hand threaded studding, nuts and barrel wire strainer. Pics to follow. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY NORWOOD Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Aft'noon all, The ordering of the components for the linked traverser is underway. I'm working on the idea of having 2 handwheels amidships on the inner side of the frame (easily accessible when operating the layout) one for each traverser. Each handwheel will operate the equivalent of a scissor jack on its side within the frame so that the screw thread motion across the frame is transferred through 90 degrees into a linear, finely adjustable movement for the traverser. M10 left and right hand threads will combine within the 'jack' to give a double response to each movement of the handwheel, the opposing threads being linked end on by a 'barrel wire strainer' a fencing gadget which has the all important M10 threads (right hand and left hand) at each extremity. The guide for the T section base of each traverser will be a common aluminium channel formed by 2 L sections mounted back to back across the full length of the traverser frame, in which the T section will slide. The rotating cradle or turntable will then sit atop and pivot via a central dowel on each traverser. An offset crank will be used to ensure that the amount of screw thread travel in the jack matches the 3ft of linear movement required to access the 11 fiddle yard roads and connect with the other traverser. Allfix of Poole are supplying the left hand threaded studding, nuts and barrel wire strainer. Pics to follow. Cheers Dave Dave Love to see the photo's when you do them. RAY70B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hi Ray, I'll be leaving the mechanism as exposed as possible so as to demonstrate it at exhibitions. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Mornin' all, Another solid session on aluminium work for TG yesterday saw the T section cut for the main frames of the linked traverser and more time spent 'flatting' the L sections of the main frames across the plate glass/wet & dry. The T section for the 2 traversers was cut to length and the base of each T reduced to 12mm with the angle grinder/disc cutter so that they slide comfortably within the 1 inch slot depth of the L section assembly/common guide for the pair. More head scratching on the best method of moving the traversers lengthways along the common slot is suggesting that multi-strand flexible wire (akin to bicycle brake cable) can be used to pull each traverser in each direction. A common drum for the 2 cables attached to each feeds cable via a pair of brass pulleys to the far ends of the traverser slot and rotating the drum causes the associated traverser to slide in one or the other direction. A method of securing the wire to each end of each traverser is now being sought. Given the position of the operator relative to the traverser/turntable assemblies when the layout is operational it will be difficult to judge accurately how far to wind the traversers along for each fiddle yard road, therefore an indicator similar to a slide rule will be attached to each traverser and mounted adjacent to the operators position so that the alignment of numbered red lines will give an exact positioning prior to the turntable cradle being rotated to the chosen fiddle yard road and locked into position with a sprung bolt. All components are being kept as simple and accessible as possible so that failures in exhibition situations can be quickly identified and exchanged with minimum disruption to the layout. The 2nd Hornby Maunsell (the 6 compartment brake) in Carmine and cream for set 27 has now arrived. The OPC 'Lines to Torrington' book recommended by Darren of 'Torrington' fame also arrived yesterday and is already proving to be an excellent resource for information. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Evenin' all, Some progress on the building of the Linked Traverser (LT) can be seen in this mock up of some of the parts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSF2rg8ZNU&feature=youtu.be The end plates for the first Barnstaple and Plymouth end fiddle yard frames can be seen on the side of the main frames of the LT. There are more component parts to fabricate yet and the lengthways slot of L section aluminium for the 2 traversers will be inverted but the basic principle of the assembly can be seen, Likewise the turntables/cradles will be 2ft in length rather than the mock up version seen on the clip. Parts for the mechanism to move the traversers along the frame are still arriving. Slug-busting the holes for the baseframe locating metal dowels individually can result in some filing needing to be done to get the absolute positioning but more importantly the method can be made to work and practice improves accuracy. The second chance using this technique is to clamp the offending dowel into its desired position once the hole has been opened out and use the backing plate for the dowel to ensure its location. The main frame stretchers have been reduced in height with the angle grinder/slitting disc to allow the traverser to pass over the top of each. The Maunsell coaches for 'P' sets 27 and 179 can be seen in the last scenes but they have yet to enter the workshops for P4 conversion and weathering. Testing of the mock-up with the cable tow theory as against the scissor jack approach is suggesting that the scissor jack idea is more suitable. The difficulty with the cable end tow approach is that the pulleys on the outer ends obviously need to be further out than the traverser travel limit, this crucially extends the width required in the workroom in which the parts of the layout are housed. The 6ft 8in length of this frame to service the less than 6ft width across the two outer fiddle yard roads means that the cradle/turntable doesn't need to protrude far beyond the frame ends even when turning stock on these outer sidings (a guard can easily be fitted) which is an important safety consideration for any stock using the traverser. The left hand threaded studding and wire strainers arrived this morning which means that testing of the jack idea can now start. One risk with a traverser of this nature is that the moving parts may foul other components at any point of their travel, therefore, I'm attempting to ensure that the height at which the moving parts travel within the frame is physically separate to the frame height of the majority of fixed components. The current design idea for the point at which the rotating cradle track meets the fiddle yard rails is for 2mm aluminium sheet (topped with cork) to be the surface on which the cradle track is laid. This protrudes a short distance beyond the cradle body and when swung towards the fiddle yard roads slightly overlaps the base frame of the fiddle yard. This takes account of any heat expansion being likely to affect similar materials in the same way (the height of the 2mm aluminium sheet) whilst the overlap bridges the gap and gives extra support to the cradle. Using this approach the fiddle yard roads and 2mm aluminium sheet/cork deck will need to stop short of the end, therefore now is the time to design this feature in. The usual lengthways heat expansion gap between rails can then be left between the 2mm aluminium in the cradle and that at the extreme end of the fiddle yard roads. Current thinking on laterally stabilising the moving cradles as they slide is the tri-maran approach. There is room height wise to top the T section base of the moving cradle with 2mm aluminium sheet which is then stabilsed at full frame width on each side. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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