Careful with cars!

[Black Sheep]

depending where you are, older vehicles weathered to be faded and less cared for would probably have still be seen in more remote parts of the network either waiting to be re-painted or, for the older vehicles, to be scrapped / sold off.

 

some might even have got into private ownership but not re-painted beyond stipped of the BR emblem.

 

with regards to when the crimson and cream livery for road vehicles ceased to be used I do not know.

[BernardTPM]

Yellow livery for 'traffic' road vehicles came in around 1963/4, along with the 'Rail freight' box arrow, replaced a handful of years later by the double arrow. Things like crew van and other 'service' vehicles were dark green, from around the same time, probably a little earlier. Initially these had 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on them, later replaced by 'double arrow British Rail' still in white. Later these too became yellow. For your period I'd say you want a mix of crimson/cream and dark green road vehicles, depending on use.

[wamwig]

It's true, and anyone with a Focus will know just how thin the metal is, the bonnet and roof skin flexes hugely under minmal pressure - gone are the days you could pose a scantily-clad model on the bonnet without denting - I'd be livid!!

 

I once had a Cologne built 3 litre Capri and you could push the panels in with your fingers they were that thin, a homologation special I believe!

 

WW

[alastairq]

Not convinced the Montego had an A series, Mum had a few and the engine was certainly bigger - think it would have at least needed a B series.

 

The Montego petrol was an O-series....the overhead cam engine.....Maestro [its hatchback sibling] had both A-[+] series and O-series...both could be found with a Diesel-Doris as well...and to confuse the issue, could be found with a Honda gearbox and a VW gloff back axle!

 

A right mish-mash!

 

But, IMHO, very good with it?

 

My 2 litre MG Maestro went like the proverbial shy-toffer-shuffle....however, the tailgate did once catch fire...

[llanben]

Yellow livery for 'traffic' road vehicles came in around 1963/4, along with the 'Rail freight' box arrow, replaced a handful of years later by the double arrow. Things like crew van and other 'service' vehicles were dark green, from around the same time, probably a little earlier. Initially these had 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on them, later replaced by 'double arrow British Rail' still in white. Later these too became yellow. For your period I'd say you want a mix of crimson/cream and dark green road vehicles, depending on use.

 

Thanks very much indeed - clear as crystal now!

[jonny777]

I think that many of the green vehicles tended to be British Road Services ones, as seen here http://www.flickr.co...er1/3808607236/

 

They were originally in red livery, but I am not sure when the change came about.

[PhilJ W]

I think that many of the green vehicles tended to be British Road Services ones, as seen here http://www.flickr.co...er1/3808607236/

 

They were originally in red livery, but I am not sure when the change came about.

The British Railways vans were a darker green. British Road Services used different colours to denote the type of vehicle, vans and closed lorries were green, open lorries were red, tippers were grey and 'specials' adopted the Pickfords dark blue although many were not part of the Pickfords fleet (car transporters in particular). In one of the BTF films about the Isle of Wight you can see BRS animal transport vehicles in a light tan/brown livery.

[BernardTPM]

I was aware of the BRS green vehicles (I still remember 'Noddy' vans in the depot down Romford Road, near Stratford, in the '70s) and wasn't referring to those; as Phil says, the BR service vehicle green was quite a bit darker.

[jonny777]

The British Railways vans were a darker green. British Road Services used different colours to denote the type of vehicle, vans and closed lorries were green, open lorries were red, tippers were grey and 'specials' adopted the Pickfords dark blue although many were not part of the Pickfords fleet (car transporters in particular). In one of the BTF films about the Isle of Wight you can see BRS animal transport vehicles in a light tan/brown livery.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I am going to need to take a close look at any model lorries that I have.

[shipbadger]

A quick questiion, in the picture of the noddy van, before the one quoted above http://www.flickr.co...er1/3808607236/ the rear is shown with the reflective plates normally carried by rigid HGVs. I know many vehicles operated by British Rail had problems when taken over by their successors, especially the likes of crew buses and so on as they were found to be over the limit to drive on a car licence and hence their fairly rapid replacement with all those Transits. Does this mean the noddy van should also have been driven by those with a Class 3 licence or is this another example of an addition made in preservation that is just an embellishment? I don't remember them in use when the noddy was an everyday sight on the roads. (Am I correct in thinking that they can be carried legally by a non-HGV anyway?) Tony Comber

[shipbadger]

Just catching up with this thread, one of the earlier points about particular makes in certain areas. In the second half of the seventies I made several visits to Scotland. The Scots obviously thoought more of the Lada than us southerners did as they were everwhere. At the same time the big motor groups were trundling transporter loads of second hand vehicles around to suit peoples tastes. A Cortina traded in in the west country would be sent to East Anglia and the truck would come back laden with BMC products. This still goes on to some extent today. Where I live 4wd/diesel and estate car are words often uttered by used car buyers, heaven knows what would happen if we had to wait for the few new ones bought locally to come onto the market. Registration letters reveal which parts of the country have the money. Incidentally, ever wondered why so many white vans have Yorkshire registrations? Lombard Leasing register their fleet there. My van spent it's former life in Merthyr Tydfil, but carries a Yorkshire reg.

 

Tony Comber

[2ManySpams]

Folk who are 'in to' railways (or trains!) may not have the same interest or knowledge on many other subjects. Some are happy with this, others dig a bit deeper and try to find out more on side issues.... Either way mistakes will be noted by the knowledgeable. So what happens next....

 

1. Expert in big loud voice tells everybody about the owner's shocking mistake

2. Expert quietly sniggers to fellow expert friend about the owner's heinous crime

3. Expert stays smugly quiet and then broadcasts to other experts via the appropriate interweb site for those experts

4. Expert quietly points out the error, is ready to provide more info, but is ready to accept if the owner isn't actually bothered

 

A lot can be made of the expert's character depending upon which option is taken. As an occasional layout exhibitor I know which option I prefer to be on the receiving end of, and that's with the 'benefit' of having received all of them!

 

With regard to vehicles, my own knowledge is thin until I started driving in the late 1980's. When modeling all periods, I can't help but think that notes on the vehicle packet giving typical production dates would be of great use to those non-experts and folk with a casual interest. For branded buses and commercial vehicles, a hint on the typical geography of the branding might help too. A cherry on the cake might be how relatively common the vehicle was (very common to low production).

 

Good thread though folks.

[Black Sheep]

 

3. Expert stays smugly quiet and then broadcasts to other experts via the appropriate interweb site for those experts.

 

 

something I tried, and hoped I had avoided in the original post.

[2ManySpams]

something I tried, and hoped I had avoided in the original post.

 

Honestly, not aimed at you chap. I had in mind a run in we had with a specialist signalling forum who happily ripped us to shreds on the internet but didn't say a word at the show.

[RussellP]

This is a great thread. Having a layout set in New Zealand, I need some 0 scale English cars. My time frame is the usual notated "mid fifties" I am looking for vehicles of that time.

As yet I don't have an early Morris Minor - any ideas anyone? Similarly, as out contry garages were simiar to theose "back home" garage furniture would be helpful.

Many thanks.

[PhilJ W]

This is a great thread. Having a layout set in New Zealand, I need some 0 scale English cars. My time frame is the usual notated "mid fifties" I am looking for vehicles of that time.

As yet I don't have an early Morris Minor - any ideas anyone? Similarly, as out contry garages were simiar to theose "back home" garage furniture would be helpful.

Many thanks.

The Morris Minor for your period would be a split screen. As the road fitness test for older vehicles was not introduced until 1959 pre-war and ex military vehicles abounded and probably outnumbered 'modern' cars, I remember our window cleaner used a wartime jeep, with the windscreen folded to accommodate his ladders. The more common 'modern' cars would be the Ford 100E series, Austin A35 and A40 Devon, Hillman Minx and Standard Vanguard (as well as the aforementioned Morris Minor). Pre-war cars would be the smaller/medium sized offerings from the major manufacturers from the early 30's onwards, a favourite ex military vehicle was the 'Tilley' which was produced by several manufacturers based on their 10hp model passenger cars. There was still a few cars dating from the 1920's around, the Austin 7 in particular, you could even get away with the new Austin 12 from Oxford.

[HLT 0109]

Phil,

 

If memory serves, it would be the A30 rather than the A35; I think the A35 replaced the A30 at the same time as the split screen Minor was replaced by the Morris 1000 (1956?). I had an A30 made in 1955 - it had the smaller back window and a chrome radiator grill rather than a painted one. I mention it because both A30 and A35 are currently available as models (in 00). I wonder why later Austins do not seem to have been produced - Somerset, Hereford, Cambridge, Westminster. We can't have them all I guess but the Somerset and Hereford were contemporaries of the Morris 1000 and Oxford.

 

Harold.

[trisonic]

Morris Minors even "work" on American layouts. I've seen at least 3 (from different manufacturing years) in New Jersey - incl a beautiful "woody" (Countryman?) in BRG.

 

A guy in my township has 2 (count them) former British registered Ford Cosworths...........

 

Just thought I'd muddy the waters.

 

Best, Pete.

[stewartingram]

Phil,

 

If memory serves, it would be the A30 rather than the A35; I think the A35 replaced the A30 at the same time as the split screen Minor was replaced by the Morris 1000 (1956?). I had an A30 made in 1955 - it had the smaller back window and a chrome radiator grill rather than a painted one. I mention it because both A30 and A35 are currently available as models (in 00). I wonder why later Austins do not seem to have been produced - Somerset, Hereford, Cambridge, Westminster. We can't have them all I guess but the Somerset and Hereford were contemporaries of the Morris 1000 and Oxford.

 

Harold.

Definately A30, replaced in 1956 by the A35, which in turn was replaced by the Mini in 1959. (Incidentally, I followed a couple of original Mk2 Mini's yesterday, and realised how SMALL they really are - not like the present BMW Mini!).

Major external differences with the A35 were:

Painted grille with chrome surround

Flashing indicators

Pointed glass lens for rear lights etc rather than flat

Larger & curved rear window

Rainstrip changed to go down the windscreen pillars rather than over the screen

'Flying A' badge on bonnet changed in size

 

Incidentally, I got my 1955 A30 in 2/1967, at around 70000 miles. I ran itfor at least 12 years, by which time it had done 250000 miles And I achieved 48mpg too!

 

Stewart

[edcayton]

The A series was used in the Maestro. A colleague had one with a VW "3+E" gearbox (ie no 4th!) which he did not like much and soon changed. The Maestro/Montego series did not use the B series though.

 

The biggest weakness with the A series set up was the gearbox with no synchro on first. In the Marina the A series engine was coupled to a Triumph gearbox, In the Midget the A series engine AND gearbox were replaced with the 1500 Spitfire engine and 'box, (in 1974) but there was no room in the Midget shell for the overdrive unit. At the same time as they did this they put huge bumpers on and raised the ride height to meet US specs and ruined a super little car.

 

Ed

[edcayton]

On my own layouts I try to have models of cars my Dad and I have owned. The era I model is an "elastic" 1960. The 1974 VW "bay" camper doesn't look too out of place as they were introduced in 1968 and, from the back at least, don't look terribly different, but the 1995 T4 is harder to justify!

 

Ed

[stewartingram]

Actually, pedant mode on, it was an A+ engine; a modified version of the A series that was 1st used in the Metro, modified to meet emission regulations.

In one of my A30 club mags from many years ago, they discussed the origins of the A series. When 1st designed, it was 'prototype-trialled' before production. When put into mass production, there were NO mods were found to be required, except for 1 component which had its material changed for ease of production only. Though not perfect (what ever is?) this was an outstanding design.

[edcayton]

Quite right, the A+ was not used in the Midget, although I had one in mine for a while, and still have this unit as a spare. The big advantage is that the little "by-pass" hose (one of the design flaws in the original that lasted nearly 50 years) has gone.

 

Ed

[trisonic]

How big in terms of cubic capacity could the A series be made?

 

The worse things about the original Mini design (imo) were: Cooling system. The Engine "brace", stabilizer underneath that always seemed to last about a day for me.....the rotting cills.

 

Best, Pete.

[edcayton]

ISTR that 1493 was a fairly common figure, but this involved offsetting the middle two bores. In racing the Triumph unit did seem to take over, but in my experience was never as reliable for road use. It's all old hat now as the cognoscenti are now putting K-series units in to poor unsuspecting Midgets!

 

Ed