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Stubby47

The 2013 SWAG Module Project

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Hi guys, some good ideas here, keep 'em coming!

 

Just to clarify things now, before thoughts of World Domination get out of hand and we are reduced to sending Mr Chamberlain to Cornwall to negotiate with Ze Stubbenmeisterfuhrer, the room available at Staplegrove is the small hall...

 

 

 

A couple of other ideas:

 

-

- If (and only if!!) the weather is good, you could have some Emergency Deputy Reserve Modules (maybe non-scenic) and extend a bit into the car park via the Fire Doors?

 

Finally, I noticed that someone mentioned some kind of loop line via the kitchen. This looks like a Very Cunning Plan to ensure a continuous supply of pasties, and it won't be allowed, I tell you!! (not if you want any lunch, that is! https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_wink3.gif https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_blum3.gif )

 

Carry on

 

Point of order Captain Sir , it's nigh impossible to get cars into the carpark , I would'nt hold

out to much hope of a model railway . :no:

 

And as for not being allowed to loop through the kitchen area , and being threatened with

reprisals of starvation , well that is just downright unfair . I think I'll write to my MP . :mail:

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A small suggestion from a non-swagger - It may be worth making contact with Wolfgang Dudler in Iserlohn http://www.westportterminal.de/ as I know he is involved in a large Free-mo setup several times a year in Germany - it may prevent the re-invention of the rolling-transportational-devices, and offer some suggestions for shapes and sizes for modules - Just a thought

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Hmmm, we seem to have a few ideas on whaf to do, which is great, but we also need to be realistic.

As we are not allowed to play in the big room ( for 2013 anyway...), we need to consider what space is available in the smaller room.

 

The layout this year was up against the end wall, to allow curves and viewing space we would need to move the layout approx 6ft. This would then mean the tables for this years dioramas would have to go.

Which means we effectively have no extra length to play with, although we could widen the layout by maybe a foot ( as long as the piano is removed).

So, I think the figure 8 idea is not practical, as there would be too many curves, and as has been said the dual level would be more problematic to join and would mean more complex carpentry.

 

My prefered option would be for one fiddle yard, adapted as Tigger suggested, with four corner units and several straight units.

 

The standards we've adopted also mean that the modules can be joined to other module project layouts - by making more complex ones this flexibility is reduced.

 

I'm not trying to stiffle ideas, but as Sidecar Racer said we need to able to put this together as simply as possible on the day.

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Just my tuppence worth

 

The ideas that are put forward for figure of eights, multi levels, siprals and the like are great if we had all the space of the main hall and the confirmed numbers of modual builders to fill the space. Also the complexities and of such an undertaking may prove difficalt to set up on the day, we had half a dozen problems this year with two apposing tracks :O

 

My vote is to go with the "roundy roundy" idea with one or two modified fiddle yards of this design

 

post-7934-0-26810800-1336319293_thumb.jpg

 

By adopting this we can still use Sidecar Racers and my moules as they are already adapted to make the connection between the fiddle yards and the standard modules.

 

This will let us have more modules and even more fun :jester: :locomotive: :senile:

Edited by Tigger
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More than happy to go along with that Mike (Tigger) but I would suggest the possibility of incorporating an extra lead in the storage are to allow cassettes for 'quick changes' and easy 'loading' - the lead to the cassettes need only be single ended I think. Basically just add a trailing connection into one end of the loop ...

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Hmmm, we seem to have a few ideas on whaf to do, which is great, but we also need to be realistic.

As we are not allowed to play in the big room ( for 2013 anyway...), we need to consider what space is available in the smaller room.

 

 

My prefered option would be for one fiddle yard, adapted as Tigger suggested, with four corner units and several straight units.

 

The standards we've adopted also mean that the modules can be joined to other module project layouts - by making more complex ones this flexibility is reduced.

 

I'm not trying to stiffle ideas, but as Sidecar Racer said we need to able to put this together as simply as possible on the day.

 

 

 

 

My vote is to go with the "roundy roundy" idea with one or two modified fiddle yards of this design

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-7934-0-26810800-1336319293.jpg

 

By adopting this we can still use Sidecar Racers and my moules as they are already adapted to make the connection between the fiddle yards and the standard modules.

 

This will let us have more modules and even more fun https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_jester.gif https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_locomotive.gif https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_to_become_senile.gif

 

 

 

This would be my option of choice , set up time has to be taken into account , unless we go in the evening

before I could see problems arising with multi level figure eight units , we only had minor alignment variations

this year and these were easily overcome .

 

it's not my fault if my impererial ruler gives a metric value , I tried my best . :jester:

 

 

The only other things that I can see is , we need to know exactly what length module each person is building , if

you say you are in , you must be in , Stu will have to plan out where each module will fit in the grand scheme ready for

the day , it would cause a lot of grief if a week before the event we find we are missing a vital three foot module , that

would need a major bridge unit to overcome . This does'nt present a problem with end to end , but I dont want to try

flying my stock over a three foot gap . :O

 

Lastly for Tiggers consideration , could we increase the number of roads in each direction ?

 

To ring changes of consists passing the viewers ( assuming we have some ) a couple more tracks would seem

the way to go . We would still need to change things from time to time so folks can see their own stuff in action

but if this was kept to loco only changes the peco loco lift will do the job , it seemed to work okay last week .

 

Well thats another of my hats in the ring , lets have some more thoughts and ideas from the other interested

builders .

 

This year was good , next year can be better . :sungum:

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I'm not sure if this will help to focus minds, but I've done another couple of edits from the batch I shot last week. If nothing else, they show the civil engineering challenges posed by the venue. First, here's another view of the layout from one corner, and bear in mind that I had my back against the display tables at that end of the room:

 

post-7291-0-28826100-1336321798_thumb.jpg

 

This one also shows Mike (Tigger) praying to the gods of electrical continuity, or paying due homage to Mike (Stationmaster), who was frequently heard to chastise operators during the day for operational incompetence! The second image is of the other side of the room, showing that darned piano. But also note that the serving hatch/counter also intrudes and needs careful negotiation to avoid injury.

 

post-7291-0-73024600-1336321809_thumb.jpg

 

This was an early trial run with the Royal Train, driven with great concentration by Mike (Sidecar Racer), while big Stu gleefully watches for it all to go pasty-shaped.

 

Okay, a couple of jests in there, but I think the images confirm the points made earlier, that there's not much more that can be squeezed in.

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I go along with Mike (Sidecar Mike) on most of that and of course if we used cassettes it would be easy to do 'quick changes' of trains.

 

As for the rest well the tunnel with a hole in the middle is looking for a return visit next year but in a much less wintry aspect and with an additional feature that will require an independent power supply (as well as a fair amount of, hmm, 'surgery'). I quite fancy doing a 'low' 3 foot module that I have germinating in my mind to go to one side of it but don't want to keep out 'newcomers' by 'bagging' 7 feet of straight line space.

 

So an important question is bound to be how long will the loops be and what happens at each end of them in terms of track position relative to module front edge?

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This was an early trial run with the Royal Train, driven with great concentration by Mike (Sidecar Racer), while big Stu gleefully watches for it all to go pasty-shaped.

 

Okay, a couple of jests in there, but I think the images confirm the points made earlier, that there's not much more that can be squeezed in.

 

That was'nt concentration Trevor , I always look like I'm chewing a wasp . :jester: ( See what I did there ? )

 

Useful photos though , thanks for those , and bring on the jests , we SWAGer's dont get to serious , this is fun

not P4 . :O

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Lastly for Tiggers consideration , could we increase the number of roads in each direction ?

 

I think that is a great idea

 

I go along with Mike (Sidecar Mike) on most of that and of course if we used cassettes it would be easy to do 'quick changes' of trains.

 

This is a good one too but someone is going to have to tell me how to build it

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Cassettes are good ,and I know a lot of layouts use them , my only reservation with them Is the danger of

throwing someones prized loco and stock on the floor during a turning move , also the cost factor , Tigger

and I spent some hard earned on the fiddle yards with points , switches , wireing and electrical parts quite

willingly , but if you went the cassette route I think each stock provider would have to make and bring their own

to suit whatever they have bought along , built to a predetermined length to fit of the yard board course .

 

Also I think we would have to agree a set of dimensions for these , if one person mounts his ally angle on a piece

of 1/2 ply and another does it on cardboard we would end up with problems of height at the railhead .

 

I'm certainly not averse to this idea , but I think a standard will be needed . It would certainly make change overs

a bit quicker and easier .

 

There go's another hat . :D

 

Must double proof read my posts .

Edited by Sidecar Racer
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I like the idea of cassettes, but as the loco lift can be laid on the track as is, without any other changes, then maybe just a few of these would enable locos to be exchanged with minimum handling.

Stock should be fairly safe - and as was said prior to this year's event - don't bring anything that's too precious because it will be handled by the operators, who might not be you.

Edited by Stubby47
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What about individual modules having storage loops on them, either incorporated into the scenery or hidden. That would ease the fiddle yard situation a bit. Could possibly even do without fiddleyards all together provided we had lots of loops and people were happy to keep trains short. Except of course a roundy-roundy is really an invitation to connect up very available piece of rolling stock and see what can pull it.

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Loops need to be at least 4ft long, plus curves & points, which makes each module a minimum of 6ft long. We could possbily get two of these per side of the layout, but I think having so many loops could cause chaos.

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But also note that the serving hatch/counter also intrudes and needs careful negotiation to avoid injury.

As a builder of my acquaintance once said - 'there's nothing a Skilsaw can't deal with'.

 

As regards cassettes I think Mike (Sidecar) and Stubby are on the right lines. Firstly we need to decide whether or not use them and secondly we need to decide how we would use them and once we've done that we need a clear standard for them.

 

My reason for suggesting mainly centres round the 'quick change' plus the potemntial problems of trying to get stock on & off the layout on a loop while a train is passing - that will need quite a lot of clearance, even for a Locolift thingy, as we found out this year (was it only last weekend?). Hence the idea that a cassette can be placed up against what would other wise be a short dead end siding and trains driven on/off. And I agree it could be sensible to say it you want to use one you make it and bring it - assuming we agree to have them.

 

This thought stems from the fact that operationally we will be in a slightly different position with a roundy. Firstly there will be a temptation (no bad thing) to keep a train or trains running - thus presenting potential juggling acts for someone trying to assemble a train in a loop (clearance issue etc). Secondly if 2 lines of each fiddle yard become through lines that only leaves two loop lines on each side which effectively means we can only have a total of 6 trains (without some fancy 'block section' electrics) which is a reduction from the maximum possible with end-to-end (although I don't think we ever reached the theoretical maximum of 8 trains which was what the control system allowed). That in turn might lead to more handling as we try to get trains on & off in order for someone else to have a run.

 

Maybe an alternative would be to just have a set of trains which stay in service all day and ring the changes on the loco side (which is to some extent what happened this year of course)? So just a bit of thinking about how we might work it.

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So an important question is bound to be how long will the loops be and what happens at each end of them

in terms of track position relative to module front edge?

 

 

 

Sorry Mike , forgot to add this in the ls last post , mine and Tiggers existing modules will go either

side of whatever we end up deciding we should use instead of any of the other ways we could have

done it if it would'nt have been to complicated to ........................................

 

 

Rich suggested this in one of his posts ,

 

Or even have "junction" modules, with the fiddle yard on an "inner" line & scenic modules "outside"....

 

is this worth a bit more thought , a seperate yard inside the circuit , this would make it easy to assemble

fresh formations while keeping action going outside . It could probably be done on one six foot board .

 

I see we have maybe four new builders showing interest , Dave White , Bill Jones , Trevellan and

Ramblin Rich , it would be nice it they would come back with their thoughts , then they wont feel we

are forcing things on them , also Black Rat was going to do one this year but ' copped out ' in the end ,

is he still in the frame ?

 

The more info we have now the easier it makes planning how big we might end up , if we all said we

were doing a four foot module we could be starting to run out of room . What we really need is a couple of

volunteer corner builders .

 

Another hat . :jester:

Edited by Sidecar Racer
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Excellent idea having 'a junction' into a 'yard' - much less fiddly than cassettes although 'interesting' when it comes to putting modules together possibly?

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Possibly it could be done as one module , it would be a bit longer than others but it need not

be any wider than two feet .

 

I will have a try at drawing up an idea for it .

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Peter Bedding has also expressed an interest, so we are looking good on numbers.

I too like the idea of a pair of junctions with a fiddle yard at the back, leaving room for modules at the front and all around. The proposals Tigger has made for the changes to the FYs still hold true, we just need the two junction boards ( 2 points and a diamond ?).

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I would dearly love to commit to this, but at present we're reliant on one car & the other 'arf really needs transport to keep the kids happy & herself sane when I'm away - so unless I can get someone else to pick up the module for me, I can't be certain of joining in (for now ;) )

 

Just to expand on my idea, here's a horribly rough sketch of one thought:

 

post-6864-0-63013400-1336341023_thumb.jpg

 

Using one of the Mikes' fidleyards - or even both back-to-back, minus one crossover unit. It would allow a fully scenic outside loop &longer tracks in the fiddle yard. The main drawback will be the complexity & size of the junction unit & whether there's actually enough room to accommodate the central "aisle" and still leave room for operators.

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Peter Bedding has also expressed an interest, so we are looking good on numbers.

I too like the idea of a pair of junctions with a fiddle yard at the back, leaving room for modules at the front and all around. The proposals Tigger has made for the changes to the FYs still hold true, we just need the two junction boards ( 2 points and a diamond ?).

 

I forgot about Pete , I will have a play with some track and points tomorrow and see what sort of lengths

we are looking at for junction and storage road length .

 

I hope we sort this out soon , I'm running out of hats . :locomotive:

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How is this for an idea ?

 

We'd need a few modules built to different track position standards, but in reality nothing much different to the FY end modules Mike & Mike made.

 

post-7025-0-51989900-1336342506.gif

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Just an observation from someone who didn't attend and has only seen the photos posted on here.

 

Would it not be advantageous to have some form of common standard/height for the backscenes and also a common colour for the front of each module? The aim being to create a more cohesive whole.

 

Just a thought,

Peter

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Hi Stu, that's kind of what I meant in post #4, but I'm a bit confused - if the fiddle yards are "inside", shouldn't the wider part of the scenic boards be at the "top" & the curve turning "upwards" too? :scratchhead:

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Sorry Rich,

Those outside two modules are just to bring the track back to the 4" from the front standard, like the two scenic modules from Mike & Mike. The modules in front of the FY would need to have tracks nearer the back than standard to ease the curves on the two junction boards.

 

Peter (Western Sunset),

The YMR standards used as the basis for our version did stipulate back/side scene heights - I've left them off (so far) to ease the construction of modules. It is something we could consider doing for next year.

 

Stu

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