TCS DP2X-UK in a Bachmann Pannier- setting up for shunting

[250BOB]

I recently purchased 70004 William Shakespeare for my Southern layout. It's fitted with a Lenz Standard+ decoder and indeed at speed step 1 (of 128) it sets off at about 3-4 mph. I had thought about trying a Zimo next time I need an 8-pin decoder - but perhaps now I won't bother! Thanks for the tip-off.

 

Just come down from the loft, having tried a now redundant DP2X in the Clan............would you beleive it.........its cured it...!!!!!! Works perfectly, nice slow crawl away and no little lurch to 3mph to start off.

 

Damn.......and I was about to give up with DP2X decoders and replace them with Lenz.......a bit of horses for courses here I suppose.???

 

Might keep a couple of my redundant DP2X decoders for this eventuality.

 

Bob.

[RFS]

Just come down from the loft, having tried a now redundant DP2X in the Clan............would you beleive it.........its cured it...!!!!!! Works perfectly, nice slow crawl away and no little lurch to 3mph to start off.

 

Damn.......and I was about to give up with DP2X decoders and replace them with Lenz.......a bit of horses for courses here I suppose.???

 

Might keep a couple of my redundant DP2X decoders for this eventuality.

 

Bob.

 

You're right - it is something to do with the type of motor. I've just had a play with mine and got much improved slow running if I set the motor type to 1 and low frequency (set CV50=129). Will do some more playing and see if that can be improved further but I'm much happier with its performance now.

 

EDIT: CV50=129 not 1.

[Chris Nevard]

 

<<snip>>

 

see Chris Nevard youtube <<link removed>> 10" in 2 minutes - even that's fast!!!!!

To be fair in the video, the Sentinel only travels about 8" in 2:45 so that's roughly 3"/min. Not sure if Chris used DCC or DC for this test.

 

I

 

Just DC with clean wheels, well laid clean track and a Gaugemaster handheld feedback controller. Nothing too clever.

[melmerby]

That equates to 7"/minute, are you saying that your Lenz decoders don't achieve this? I'd be disappointed with that but this is where we enter the realms of subjectivity. One mans crawl is another mans sprint.

 

Just revisited this and did an accurate test on the King Arthur with the DCX74D (only a crude estimate before!)

It took 3' 40" to travel 10 inches. Step 1 of 28. set to start volts = 0, mid = 127, top = 255.

 

I will now replace the DCX74D with a Lenz Silver Mini+ and try again

 

Keith

[Nigelcliffe]

In my experience, The Ct Dcx74 is way too small for use in 4mm locos.

It also needs some CV tweaking for ultimate performance - increase the track reference voltage to 255 and the bottom speed should fall. See article on the 2mm Scale Association website for details.

 

Nigel

[melmerby]

In my experience, The Ct Dcx74 is way too small for use in 4mm locos.

 

Nigel

It's about 25% larger than the Lenz Silver Mini+, so is that too small?

 

 

Just done the slow speed test with the Lenz Silver Mini + (see my post #56)

With the same settings it takes 33", one sixth the time!

 

Keith

[charliepetty]

I also have a scot and a patriot fitted with the Lenz silver mini, using the same method of soldering an 8 pin plug onto the wires.

Why don't Lenz make this decoder with a plug on already???

Great little decoder, sublime loco performance.

Where can these be obtained at a good price.??

Bob

 

Lenz make a 6Pin Mini, it comes without a harness. Try DC Kits (www.dckits-devideos.co.uk) suggest emailing for a price if you require 4+

[tender]

 

It's about 25% larger than the Lenz Silver Mini+, so is that too small?

 

 

Just done the slow speed test with the Lenz Silver Mini + (see my post #56)

With the same settings it takes 33", one sixth the time!

 

Keith

So that' about 3"/min for the dcx74 and 20"/min for lenz. Quite a difference .

[charliepetty]

Hi Brian,

Apologies for hi jacking your thread a little...but as you said, it has been interesting, and we have all learnt a little bit more from those kind folk chipping in with answers.

 

As Keith has said......Lenz performance for me too is perfect. I have tried many, many others just out of curiosity, but they have all been expensive mistakes I'm afraid.

 

Where space is an issue, I now use the Lenz Silver Mini (Model 10310), and solder on an eight pin plug. Alittle more expensive being so small, but it fits all small spaces, thus reducing the need for hacking and removing weights etc., In fact just come out of the loft having fitted one into my Crab which previously had a DP2X in. I decided not to try and fit a Lenz Standard, I chickened out, and spent an extra tenner getting the Silver Mini.....Great result , Locos performance transformed.

Really happy......thanks everyone for your help and advice.

Bob

 

You could always use a 6pin(Female) to 8pin(Male) adaptor then no soldering is required, just plug the Lenz Silver 6Pin mini into the adaptor and plud the 8pin end into your loco, 'simples' see www.dckits-devideos.co.uk they have these listed as well as Lenz Silver Mini's.

[250BOB]

You could always use a 6pin(Female) to 8pin(Male) adaptor then no soldering is required, just plug the Lenz Silver 6Pin mini into the adaptor and plud the 8pin end into your loco, 'simples' see www.dckits-devideos.co.uk they have these listed as well as Lenz Silver Mini's.

 

Thanks Charlie....interesting.!

But I cant see the 6 to 8 pin adaptor on the DC Kits website.......I can see the Silver mini direct and the silver mini with harness, but no adaptor.?

Bob

[Nigelcliffe]

 

It's about 25% larger than the Lenz Silver Mini+, so is that too

 

 

My comment is based on practical experience. The small CTs don't seem to work well when the power requirements get to the typical values in 4mm scale. They work well in N and 2mm, and as they work well in very small 4mm locos they probably work well in 3mm scale.

 

If others find the small CT decoders work well in 4mm, that's fine.

 

 

Size depends if you measure linear in one dimension or volume.

 

 

Nigel

 

[charliepetty]

Thanks Charlie....interesting.!

But I cant see the 6 to 8 pin adaptor on the DC Kits website.......I can see the Silver mini direct and the silver mini with harness, but no adaptor.?

Bob

On the DCC Sound pages, Diesel & Electric, first few items!

 

 

 

 

DCC 8Pin to 6Pin Adaptor

 

DCC 8Pin to 6Pin Adaptor£3.50

[250BOB]

You're right - it is something to do with the type of motor. I've just had a play with mine and got much improved slow running if I set the motor type to 1 and low frequency (set CV50=129). Will do some more playing and see if that can be improved further but I'm much happier with its performance now.

 

EDIT: CV50=129 not 1.

 

Hi RFS,

I'm very interested in what you have done to the cv values to sort this problem, was that with a Lenz Standard plus decoder.??

 

What is this cv value for, where can I find some info on this .??

 

Thanks..........................Bob

[RFS]

Hi RFS,

I'm very interested in what you have done to the cv values to sort this problem, was that with a Lenz Standard plus decoder.??

 

What is this cv value for, where can I find some info on this .??

 

Thanks..........................Bob

 

Yes - Lenz Standard+ decoder. Details in the booklet that comes with them or online at http://www.lenzusa.com/manuals/ . Not sure exactly what the parameters mean (the manual doesn't go into very much detail) but the loco does run much better with this change to CV50. This CV50 is defined as the motor type.

[250BOB]

Yes - Lenz Standard+ decoder. Details in the booklet that comes with them or online at http://www.lenzusa.com/manuals/ . Not sure exactly what the parameters mean (the manual doesn't go into very much detail) but the loco does run much better with this change to CV50. This CV50 is defined as the motor type.

 

Hi RFS,

Yes, I found the little book and checked out CV50......it was a bit mysterious to me, confusing to say the least.?

Can you tell me exactly what you did to CV50, or any other CV please. I read it first, and it showed a value of 0. I then tried everything up to 5, with no change, then tried your 129 value.....still no difference.???

Thanks...........Bob.

[RFS]

Hi RFS,

Yes, I found the little book and checked out CV50......it was a bit mysterious to me, confusing to say the least.?

Can you tell me exactly what you did to CV50, or any other CV please. I read it first, and it showed a value of 0. I then tried everything up to 5, with no change, then tried your 129 value.....still no difference.???

Thanks...........Bob.

With relevant default CVs (CV2=1 and CV50=0) it takes 35 seconds to travel 27 inches on my measured track. But with CV2=0 and CV50=1 it takes 72 seconds. I subsequently didn't find any advantage in using the part of CV50 (low frequency motor, ie CV50=129).

 

The one problem I do have is that the valve gear keeps sticking. It's the newer 70004 William Shakespeare and if I can't sort it myself it may be a warranty repair.

 

EDIT: It's not the valve gear - it's the Lenz decoder! After stopping, the engine kept refusing to start again. I picked it up, checked the valve gear and when put back on the track it worked. Subsequently I discovered I could "release" the valve gear by power-cycling the Lenz DCC station. I do have a spare Lenz Standard+ and with this one the loco works perfectly again. One to go back under warranty methinks. .

[tender]

I recently purchased 70004 William Shakespeare for my Southern layout. It's fitted with a Lenz Standard+ decoder and indeed at speed step 1 (of 128) it sets off at about 3-4 mph. I had thought about trying a Zimo next time I need an 8-pin decoder - but perhaps now I won't bother! Thanks for the tip-off.

My Brit (Alfred the Great) is fitted with a TCS DP2x-uk and starts off at 6"/min at speed step 1 (of 128), that's a scale speed of about 1/2mph.

[250BOB]

My Brit (Alfred the Great) is fitted with a TCS DP2x-uk and starts off at 6"/min at speed step 1 (of 128), that's a scale speed of about 1/2mph.

 

Hi Ray,

My Alfred works better from start with a DP2X in.......very odd.??

Bob

[tender]

 

 

Hi Ray,

My Alfred works better from start with a DP2X in.......very odd.??

Bob

 

Hi Bob.

Odd indeed, on occasions I'm finding decoder selection a bit of a lottery, just when you think you've found the perfect range of decoders a loco comes along that bucks the trend. There's also a few surprises. A few locos i've purchased have had the Hornby decoder

pre fitted and have found to be very good in the speed control department. Ok as long as you don't want the bells and whistles of the more expensive decoders. THen there's the Brighton Belle, yet to find a decoder that gives good control with that. I'm thinking it's got something to do with all the additional electronics on the pcb loading the decoder (it's huge). Don't know what it all does as there's only the table lamps to turn on and off. Probably something to do supplying the current to all five coaches without overloading the function output of the decoder. Still working on that one.

Ray.

[melmerby]

A few locos i've purchased have had the Hornby decoder

pre fitted and have found to be very good in the speed control department.

Obviously not bought a pre-fitted Stanier 2-6-4T or a M7 0-4-4T! I found neither are particularly good with the R8249 decoder supplied.

 

Keith

[brianthesnail96]

Acquired a Bachmann DCC on board (ex set) 56xx for a bargain price the other day, and a lenz standard plus to go with it on the off chance it would fit in OK (and also so I could test fit it in my other engines without having to take the pannier back apart!). I tested it with the standard chip with predictably uninspiring results- swapped the Bachmann chip for the (all but identically sized) Lenz and it was transformed, every bit as good as the Pannier. Made me a happy bunny, especially as the engine and chip cost rather less than the virtually identical (different number) current DCC ready one. The chip also fits into the Bachmann small Prairie (just), but not the Collett goods.

 

Thanks to the twists and turns of this thread though, I now know that a 6 pin direct Lenz silver mini is available (I'd only seen hard wired ones previously), along with an adaptor harness to plug in into the 8- pin Collett. Fan- dabby- dozy thanks again all.

[melmerby]

Acquired a Bachmann DCC on board (ex set) 56xx for a bargain price the other day, and a lenz standard plus to go with it on the off chance it would fit in OK (and also so I could test fit it in my other engines without having to take the pannier back apart!). I tested it with the standard chip with predictably uninspiring results- swapped the Bachmann chip for the (all but identically sized) Lenz and it was transformed, every bit as good as the Pannier. Made me a happy bunny, especially as the engine and chip cost rather less than the virtually identical (different number) current DCC ready one. The chip also fits into the Bachmann small Prairie (just), but not the Collett goods.

 

Thanks to the twists and turns of this thread though, I now know that a 6 pin direct Lenz silver mini is available (I'd only seen hard wired ones previously), along with an adaptor harness to plug in into the 8- pin Collett. Fan- dabby- dozy thanks again all.

Where did you fit the Lenz decoder? (In fact where does the Bachmann decoder go?). I found I needed to remove the small weight on top of part 075-002 and fit it there:

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/32-075.pdf

 

Any where else it just didn't seem to go (It had a DP2X-UK before)

 

Keith

[brianthesnail96]

I don't think there was a weight on mine- the Bachmann decoder was taped on top of 075-002, I just did a straight swap (having put some masking tape down first to insulate the chip- the Bachmann one was heatshrink wrapped). Don't think it would fit anywhere else, but to be honest I didn't try- the front of the boiler/ smokebox arrangement is the same as the Collett goods and it certainly won't fit in there on that.

 

Should you be particuarly inclined, with a decoder plonked up on top, there is room to add more weight to the nose. I didn't bother as my layout is fairly flat and fairly restrictive on train length (4 Mk1s), which it has no problem with.

 

Chipping the Bachmann Bill & Ben while also cramming them full of lead will be more of a challenge...

[melmerby]

I don't think there was a weight on mine- the Bachmann decoder was taped on top of 075-002, I just did a straight swap (having put some masking tape down first to insulate the chip- the Bachmann one was heatshrink wrapped). Don't think it would fit anywhere else, but to be honest I didn't try- the front of the boiler/ smokebox arrangement is the same as the Collett goods and it certainly won't fit in there on that.

 

Should you be particuarly inclined, with a decoder plonked up on top, there is room to add more weight to the nose. I didn't bother as my layout is fairly flat and fairly restrictive on train length (4 Mk1s), which it has no problem with.

 

 

I found the 56XX to be reasonably weighty to start with, with that nice solid chassis.

Mine will pull 6 Bachmann (ex-Mainline) coaches up a 1 in 60 gradient and around a 36" curve at the same time.

Even the aforementioned Pannier will do likewise, even though it is a bit lighter.

The locos with only 4 driving wheels, 4-4-0, 0-4-4T etc are much more of a problem!

 

Keith

[CullingworthGNR]

Just come down from the loft, having tried a now redundant DP2X in the Clan............would you beleive it.........its cured it...!!!!!! Works perfectly, nice slow crawl away and no little lurch to 3mph to start off.

 

Damn.......and I was about to give up with DP2X decoders and replace them with Lenz.......a bit of horses for courses here I suppose.???

 

Might keep a couple of my redundant DP2X decoders for this eventuality.

 

Bob.

 

Bob, thanks for posting this - I had been having the same issues with my Clan and a Lenz Standard+. If you did have a spare one and wanted to sell it let me know, otherwise I will contact DCC supplies in the next few weeks.

 

What a good forum full of helpful people!