Are the Worsley Works GWR 4-wheel coach kits worth keeping?

[VonRyan]

Hi all,

I have the full 4 coach set of the Worsley Works GWR 4-wheel coach kits.

I've come to the full conclusion that i won't be able to assemble these kits, the reason for which involves my having Aspergers Syndrome.

Now the question at hand; Are they worth keeping if i won't be able to assemble them? Should i just sell them off and settle to put the 60 pounds into a single farish 4-wheeler? Is there someone who would be willing to assemble/paint these kits for me yet with no real "reward" other than having completed them, the knowledge that they've helped a 17-year-old modeller who isn't exactly wealthy, and my paying for the return postage to the USA.

 

There is probably many varying thoughts on this subject, and i welcome them all to be said freely.

(I value the phrase "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained." Hence my creating this topic)

Also, do feel free to PM me with any and all thoughts you may have, but you don't exactly want to post them openly. You can also PM me if you have any ideas as to solutions to my dilemma. Either way, i welcome a good conversation.

 

Thanks to all who read this and hopefully share their thoughts.

 

Kind regards,

-Cody F.

[richbrummitt]

PM'd

[VonRyan]

IMO it's best you'd focus not on what you can't do, but what you still can do

 

So should i perhaps look for more simplistic kits that i would be more able to complete?

 

If so, what other options are there?

 

Farish 4-wheels are generally expensive when seen on ebay. Plus shipping is quite expensive.... when the seller is willing to ship to the US.

 

-Cody F.

[Rabs]

If you specifically want 4 wheelers then you have a few options. Build a kit and buying the farish ones are options you've already considered. Depending on how prototypical you want to be, you could get some of the 'shredded wheat' coaches and repaint them (at lower cost than the other 4 wheelers I've seen). If you want something realistic then you could look into designing on a computer and 3d printing them - no assembly skills required! The cost for 4 x 4 wheel coaches would probably run to about the £60 that you are considering. And if you use one of the industry standard 3D design packages you'll learn a very valuable skill in the process (I assume that you're at school/college, in which case they may have licenses for Solidworks or similar for the students to use). Good luck whatever you choose.

[VonRyan]

If you specifically want 4 wheelers then you have a few options. Build a kit and buying the farish ones are options you've already considered. Depending on how prototypical you want to be, you could get some of the 'shredded wheat' coaches and repaint them (at lower cost than the other 4 wheelers I've seen). If you want something realistic then you could look into designing on a computer and 3d printing them - no assembly skills required! The cost for 4 x 4 wheel coaches would probably run to about the £60 that you are considering. And if you use one of the industry standard 3D design packages you'll learn a very valuable skill in the process (I assume that you're at school/college, in which case they may have licenses for Solidworks or similar for the students to use). Good luck whatever you choose.

 

I'm in school (12th grade=senior in highschool), but there is no class that even gets close to working with 3d design software. that program got cut 5 or so years back due to lack of interest. I'd have to pay someone to design them for me... money i don't have, hence why its either keep the kits or sell/trade them for something more manageable with my skillset.

I did consider the 'shredded wheat' coaches at first, before i asked for the Worsley Works kits as an x-mas present, but i have no way to repaint them, or paint anything for that matter. An airbrush is a luxury that i cannot afford yet, especially since i still have to finish the N-Trak module that the coaches are meant to be used on.

 

As it stands, i'm not even aware of any other "kits" for GWR 4-wheel coaches or similar style 4-wheelers.

 

-Cody F.

[BernardTPM]

Looking at the pictures of Worsley's website it's not clear how these kits are laid out, but their usual format is separate sides, ends, roof and floor that need some shaping and then assembly. Keeping everything square and in line while sodlering is not an easy job. A possible alternative approach to building them might be to make a plastic box with clear sides, stepped in at the bottom to allow for the tuck under on both the sides and ends, then glue the sides and ends to the box after painting. An advantage is that if you're not satisfied with your first attempt at the box structure or it's not quite the right size, you don't glue the sides on, but have another go.

[richbrummitt]

Looking at the pictures of Worsley's website it's not clear how these kits are laid out, but their usual format is separate sides, ends, roof and floor that need some shaping and then assembly.

 

They are almost exactly that. I have some that are substantially complete to the point where the parts in the 'scratch aid' run out. Separate sides, floor, ends. There is some location for the solebar in the floors. You also have the guards duckets to contend with in addition on the two brake coaches.

 

 

As it stands, i'm not even aware of any other "kits" for GWR 4-wheel coaches or similar style 4-wheelers.

 

There are these but they are more money, although complete as a kit AFAIK, when compared to Worsley Works 'scratch-aids' and from the Siphon fret that I have seen they will not be any easier to put together.

[nick_bastable]

Etched Pixels do some simple small coach etches

[Steven B]

An airbrush is a luxury that i cannot afford yet, especially since i still have to finish the N-Trak module that the coaches are meant to be used on.

 

You don't need an airbrush to get a good paint finish. With practice (something we've all had to do) you can get a decent finish with a hairy-brush or aerosols.

 

Take a look at the N Gauge Society website and find some of the models produced by Gareth Collier - none of them involved the use of an air-brush.

 

Don't give up on the kits - you might not feel capable of building them now, but after a few years of working on other models you'll feel more confident about giving them a go. Event Neil Armstrong had to learn to crawl before walking on the moon!

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Cody. Like Steven says, try some smaller etched items before you tackle these coaches. Perhaps an open wagon or two for example. Just something basic and uncomplicated that will get you used to the medium and give you some confidence to tackle more complex projects. I've been building railway models for 35 years and it's only in the last three or four that I've started building etched kits. I wonder what all the fuss was about now and having got to grips even with assembly by solder I actually find it very enjoyable.

It needn't be expensive for you, you can even practice your techniques on old scrap bits of brass if you can get your hands on some!

There's lots to learn Cody, but don't worry; if you're genuinely interested just take your time and master each step. It'll all come together eventually.

 

Dave.

[scanman]

Hi Cody -

 

Firstly - there are experienced modellers that I know who have opened the packaging, gulped & put them in the 'Wundy Box ('One day I'll get around to them'!) ME INCLUDED! The clue is in the words 'One day'...

 

So far as their actual construction is concerned, some '2mm' members advise downloading the instruction sheets on coach construction from 'Comet Models' ( www.cometmodels.co.uk ) which gives some info on how coach kits in general should be tackled.

 

Have you got an 'N-Trak' club in the neighbourhood (or any other Railroad club)? Whilst membership costs, advice is usually freely given & someone there will be able to help you. I understand that your medical condition might make this something of a challenge - but you've already accepted the challenge of making a module and I would guess that both these activities might help with the disorder. As another poster said - 'dont focus on what you cannot do - focus on what you can do'. BUT I would add 'For now, & use it as a platform to gain higher levels'.

 

At the opening of the Paralympic Games here in the UK last week, Professor Stephen Hawkins (who has suffered with 'Motor Neurone Disease' for the last FIFTY years) said

 

'Look up at the stars - NOT down at your feet'.

 

Not a bad motto for life.....

 

Regs

 

Ian

[scanman]

Cody -

 

Me again! drop down the page - about 3 from bottom is a thread started by me on the same subject. Some good hints there

 

Regs

 

Ian

[PLD]

I don't think anyone would ever consider or recommend a Worsley Works product as suitable for a beginner, but an experienced modeller can produce some very good results from them...

 

I would say put them to one side for now. try something a little easier and less ambitious first to gain experience and skills. Practice painting on a few cheap second hand coaches (doesn't matter too much what they are), and try a simpler Etched brass kit first (e.g. a box van) to practice soldering.

 

Don't give up, but you can't expect everything to be done for you either...

[Etched Pixels]

The Worsley Works kits are sometimes quite scary if you are new to them, and also because the design reflects larger scales for the coaches sometimes more pain than is needed. OTOH they are cheap, he does a ton of stuff nobody else does and apart from the scale/design style thing they are generally well designed.

 

I've got a Met dreadnought to build and I'm currently contemplating 3D printing a shell so I can just glue the bits on instead 8)

[VonRyan]

The Worsley Works kits are sometimes quite scary if you are new to them, and also because the design reflects larger scales for the coaches sometimes more pain than is needed. OTOH they are cheap, he does a ton of stuff nobody else does and apart from the scale/design style thing they are generally well designed.

 

I've got a Met dreadnought to build and I'm currently contemplating 3D printing a shell so I can just glue the bits on instead 8)

 

Cheap they are not... If i had known that i wouldn't be able to put them together, i'd have just put the 60 pounds towards something else...

 

Are these and the Farish 4-wheelers the only options for GWR 4-wheel coaches or is there something that might work?

 

-Cody F.

[Etched Pixels]

Are these and the Farish 4-wheelers the only options for GWR 4-wheel coaches or is there something that might work?

 

£60 for a set of four etched coaches is pretty good in my book.

 

The Farish 4 wheelers are completely bogus, bear no resemblance to anything four wheel except maybe some Isle of Wight conversions providing your eyesight is terrible and you are viewing them from a distance.

 

The other source is Scalelink who do a few oddments, however if you can't build the Worsley ones don't even think about trying to the Scalelink ones. I may well produce some of the designs in 2013 as mixed 3D print/etched as I need some for the BP&GV modelling project but that wouldn't help you anyway.

 

Your other option is to put them aside until you are good enough to build them (or in many people's cases IMHO discover the confidence to try). Model making is a craft and just as when you learn to play an instrument you have to put aside a lot of things you want to be able to play and come back to them far later as your skills develop, so it is with modelling.

[PaulCheffus]

Cheap they are not... If i had known that i wouldn't be able to put them together, i'd have just put the 60 pounds towards something else...

 

Are these and the Farish 4-wheelers the only options for GWR 4-wheel coaches or is there something that might work?

 

-Cody F.

 

Hi

 

For many years I steered clear of etched brass kits as I felt they were out of my league. I then joined the 2mm SA as I wanted to use some of their parts to detail my N gauge stock. I then started building their etched chassis. This gave me the confidence to go on to tackle my first full etched kit (with hindsight it was probably too complicated [N'thusiasts Tamper] for the level I had reached but I had a go) and I think I have made a pretty good job of it.

 

As people above have said get something small and have a go. If you contact me off list I'll see what I have by the way of chassis and see if I can send you an etch to try out.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[VonRyan]

£60 for a set of four etched coaches is pretty good in my book.

 

The Farish 4 wheelers are completely bogus, bear no resemblance to anything four wheel except maybe some Isle of Wight conversions providing your eyesight is terrible and you are viewing them from a distance.

 

The other source is Scalelink who do a few oddments, however if you can't build the Worsley ones don't even think about trying to the Scalelink ones. I may well produce some of the designs in 2013 as mixed 3D print/etched as I need some for the BP&GV modelling project but that wouldn't help you anyway.

 

Your other option is to put them aside until you are good enough to build them (or in many people's cases IMHO discover the confidence to try). Model making is a craft and just as when you learn to play an instrument you have to put aside a lot of things you want to be able to play and come back to them far later as your skills develop, so it is with modelling.

 

Only problem is that i will never be able to build these successfully... Which is why i'm asking everyone for other ideas/options.

 

It looks like you no longer sell the 4-wheel coaches (that came in a 4-pack) that you had on your old site. The actual coaches themselves would have been a good substitute, and i had wished i had found them before the Worsley Works kits.

 

As it is, i wouldn't be able to actually purchase them since another pre-existing project has already destroyed what was left of my "budget" which was basically money in a drawer. Hence why i cannot pay a service to build these kits and i'd rather find someone who wants-to instead of will-do.

 

I appreciate all the kind words and the advice everyone has offered thus far, and hopefully someone might think-of or remember something yet unsaid.

"There is always something that can be said, its just a matter of taking the initiative to open your mouth" i forget who said the quote, but its something someone once said to me when i was younger and quieter.

 

-Cody F.

[Etched Pixels]

Well I do (although they are LB&SCR so look quite different to the GWR Holden type coaches) but I don't supply the USA for insurance reasons, and while they are easier to build they won't build themselves.

 

There are several ways of approaching the Worsley ones that don't involve working on the etches until you are happy. One to begin with is to trace the profile of the ends onto styrene sheet then file matching templates. Measure the sides and cut a floor plate to fit the ends, add some plastic bracing to the floor and the joins to keep it solid, then add a brace at the bottom and at the top of the side and maybe in the middle to hold it together (taking care the braces are out of sight of where the windows will go). Once you've built that and stuck it on a Peco chassis you can add a card roof and finally when happy glue the etched sides and ends on.

 

I've built various coaches this way using Bill Bedford sides and similar. It's very cheap in raw materials and requires little more than patience, knife and a small file.

 

Alan

[VonRyan]

Well I do (although they are LB&SCR so look quite different to the GWR Holden type coaches) but I don't supply the USA for insurance reasons, and while they are easier to build they won't build themselves.

 

There are several ways of approaching the Worsley ones that don't involve working on the etches until you are happy. One to begin with is to trace the profile of the ends onto styrene sheet then file matching templates. Measure the sides and cut a floor plate to fit the ends, add some plastic bracing to the floor and the joins to keep it solid, then add a brace at the bottom and at the top of the side and maybe in the middle to hold it together (taking care the braces are out of sight of where the windows will go). Once you've built that and stuck it on a Peco chassis you can add a card roof and finally when happy glue the etched sides and ends on.

 

I've built various coaches this way using Bill Bedford sides and similar. It's very cheap in raw materials and requires little more than patience, knife and a small file.

 

Alan

 

What insurance reasons? Sorry for seeming blunt, but the whole thing baffles me and i've never gotten an actual explanation from anyone why they won't ship to the USA. I've only even encountered this with some sellers on ebay, and for some reason the fact that the buyer pays shipping doesn't seem to mean a thing...

 

Anyhow, the fact that your kits are fold up means that they are less demanding in terms of exactness since they already are exact.

 

No matter what, i cannot build the Worsley Works kits. I simply cannot do what is required to be done due to the fact that in order to be built successfully it requires far too much exact fitting, and that is something i cannot due. One simple mistake and they're trash. Now if someone else was to build them and make a small mistake, it wouldn't be a problem. Its hard to explain why things are like that, but in a nutshell if something does not come out how i see it in my minds eye then it means that its worthless to me. It sounds really harsh and all, but like i said its hard to explain. Which is why i never will take drafting, and also has to do with a whole other slew of things. I apologize if my attempt at an explanation doesn't help much, but i also have trouble forming explanations of some things.

 

So, should i just forget coaching stock and leave everyone alone?

 

-Cody F.

[Etched Pixels]

What insurance reasons?.

 

Cost of Insurance for EU: ~£200, Cost of Insurance to cover shipping kits to the US > £1200

 

Basically the insurers consider the USA to be a bunch of litigious psychopaths with a broken legal system and charge accordingly. It's not commercially viable for many small businesses to ship to the USA.

[VonRyan]

Cost of Insurance for EU: ~£200, Cost of Insurance to cover shipping kits to the US > £1200

 

Basically the insurers consider the USA to be a bunch of litigious psychopaths with a broken legal system and charge accordingly. It's not commercially viable for many small businesses to ship to the USA.

 

Oh, so you mean some kind of third party insurance a opposed the little extra fee the post office charges you if you choose to insure the package.

And in my opinion, whoever came up with that statement is probably right... you should see all the TV commercials about getting settlements for accidents and such...

 

Anywho, so since that option is basically out of the question (or is it... ) I guess i'm just left with the option of selling/trading them off since i guess no one has either built these kits or even wants to.

 

-Cody F.

[PaulCheffus]

Only problem is that i will never be able to build these successfully... Which is why i'm asking everyone for other ideas/options.

 

Hi

 

Going back to when I was your age I bought an etched kit for a locomotive and looked at it for a long time before actually having a go. It didn't go well and it put me off etched kits for the best part of 25 years so I sort of understand where you are coming from.

 

Having said that I have managed to conquer my phobia and although I would choose my kits with care I no longer worry about building an etched kit.

 

The offer I made earlier still stands and might just give you the confidence to try a few more etched kits before attempting the coaches.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[PLD]

Only problem is that i will never be able to build these successfully...

I'm afraid that comes accross as rather defeatist. Why should others help you if you are unwilling to help yourself by learning with something simpler first?

 

Nobody enters the hobby with the full set of skills to do everything stright away - even the best had to learn.

 

You need to apply the '3Ps' Patience, Practice and Persistence...

[richbrummitt]

i guess no one has either built these kits or even wants to.

 

Hmm? You can't have looked too hard. On the Worsley Works website there are examples by Peter Whitehead.

 

My own are not quite so finished:

 

 

This was a previous effort at a similar train based on Farish 4 wheelers, perhaps 10 years ago when I had just two thirds of my current years and one half my model railway experience:

 

 

A BIG difference.