Pixie Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 In case anyone hasn't had a peak on wnxx.com.... http://parovoz.com/newgallery/pg_view.php?ID=235774&LNG=EN <speechless> Merry Christmas, Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 In case anyone hasn't had a peak on wnxx.com.... http://parovoz.com/newgallery/pg_view.php?ID=235774&LNG=EN <speechless> Merry Christmas, Pix Is there the possibility of HS4000 surviving? There were reports she was cut up in 1994 - what a picture, thank you pixie for giving us the link. Astounding...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackthorn Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Wow! An incredible, if very sad, picture. It would nice to think that Kestrel still survived, but somehow I doubt it. (PLEASE SOMEONE, prove me wrong!) Just imagine if someone WERE to bring her home! Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 It seems to be pretty unanimous that it was cut up in the early 90's. It'd be nice to think that it's still out there, but I think that the closest we'll get now is using Gilletteski razors in the morning... Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 It seems such a pity that it was scrapped just as the former Soviet Union was opening up. If only it had lasted a year or two more there might have been a real possibility of saving it and returning it to the UK. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Thanks for posting, what a great find , this is only the second pic I have seen of Kestrel in Russia :icon_wink:............what a pity both Kestrel & Falcon didn't make it into preservation :icon_sad: Phill :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 The bare shell of the loco was sold for scrap in 1993, so too be cut up the following year would sound feasable. When the CCCP got the loco in 1971 it was exhibited for a period then in 1972 they used it on tests for a short while. Then amazingly they stripped the engine out to use it for static tests and the rest of the loco was stripped of every useable part. The loco then spent many years as ballast behind other locos on test. Their are some pictures around showing the cab maticuelously stripped off every conceivable part and the engine room full of concrete slabs strapped to the floor. What a waste of ??125,000 in old money Trevor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 What a waste of ??125,000 in old money Maybe not - apparently the latest Russian loco designs following the purchase of Kestrel incorporated a lot of technology derived from it. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted December 25, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2009 The chances of this loco is still intact is difficult to work out, but If it is I would donate to the restoration fund if the loco is still intact. That is on sad looking locomotive Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 wasn't somebody on here a couple of months ago saying he was off to russia to look for it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 What a waste of ??125,000 in old money Presumably the Russians were after reverse engineering the loco for it's technology. So they dissected it and stripped out the interesting bits for further study. They wouldn't have learned much by keeping it intact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 My Mrs bought me a Heljan Kestrel for Christmas, and I fleetingly saw her back in 68 (or 69) passing thru Wigan on a 20 or so coach test train. A beautifully designed aesthetically pleasing loco, to me anyway. How we have gone backwards (in design) with the new 70's. Such a shame, how she finished her days. Not many diesels I can say that about. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 ArthurK, that's Falcon. diffrent loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 25, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2009 Here is the only shot I have of "Kestrel". Kings Cross 1962 on the up "Master Cutler" That's Falcon, not Kestrel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 That's Falcon Arthur, Freudian slip? I would dispute the fact that Kestrel was a waste of money as her engine and ancillary systems spawned the hugely successful 'Ludmillas' which can still be found providing super-heavy diesel haulage for DB Schenker and RZD across Northern Europe. A proud, if indirect legacy for the engineers at Loughborough, I'd say. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Oops, we're not ganging up on you Arthur, honest! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 That's Falcon Arthur, Freudian slip? I would dispute the fact that Kestrel was a waste of money as her engine and ancillary systems spawned the hugely successful 'Ludmillas' which can still be found providing super-heavy diesel haulage for DB Schenker and RZD across Northern Europe. A proud, if indirect legacy for the engineers at Loughborough, I'd say. Dave. Beat me to it dave - seen here. Very strange how there is an echo of Kestrel somewhat in the design - can't explain what it is, but something in the look has that geneology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted December 25, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2009 I realised my mistake minutes after I posted it but then I had logged off. I logged on again minutes later to delete it but all you eager beavers had got there berfore me. My apologies post now deleted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Yes indeed, it's the slightly hunched up, but squatting low posture of a big dog about to break into a run. That, coupled with a typically Russian toughness in the styling gives the Lumillas a distinctive and purposeful look not a million miles from Kestrel. It has to be said though that Kestrel herself shares a certain elegance of styling with another contemporary classic - the DB class 103.1 electric of 1968. B) http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/br-103-109406.jpg Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Yes indeed, it's the slightly hunched up, but squatting low posture of a big dog about to break into a run. That, coupled with a typically Russian toughness in the styling gives the Lumillas a distinctive and purposeful look not a million miles from Kestrel. It has to be said though that Kestrel herself shares a certain elegance of styling with another contemporary classic - the DB class 103.1 electric of 1968. B) http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/br-103-109406.jpg Dave. That's a very handsome locomotive - no relative I would hazard a guess, but the styling in the marker lights and general rounded bodywork gives a very purposeful look to that engine. EDIT: Found the engine I was looking for - the Russian "Kestrel-ski" Found here. EDIT 2: Okay, loads of stuff on Google about Kestrel in Russian...take a look at this and see if its translatable: Diesel Kestrel Was Kestrel Scrapped? Yahoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc-10 Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Why was Kestrel sold anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Arguably the finest electric locomotive ever built in Christendom, Simon. I love them! I've seen two in the flesh, albeit from a distance and it is possible, very occasionally, to ride behind one in Germany to this day. Although retired from regular mainline service, two or three remain in rear echelon service as test locos and they are very occasionally let off the leash on service trains in order to keep them and their drivers up to speed. They are truly magnificent machines, but not wholly on topic, I'm afraid...! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Arguably the finest electric locomotive ever built in Christendom, Simon. I love them! I've seen two in the flesh, albeit from a distance and it is possible, very occasionally, to ride behind one in Germany to this day. Although retired from regular mainline service, two or three remain in rear echelon service as test locos and they are very occasionally let off the leash on service trains in order to keep them and their drivers up to speed. They are truly magnificent machines, but not wholly on topic, I'm afraid...! Dave. I dunno dave, I think its stayed on topic, these were the engines that were developed as a result of the russians dismantling kestrel so. I managed to translate (badly) using babel-fish the website. Here's the translated text: In 1971. All-Union association ???[Mashinoimport]??? acquired that built in 1967. by English firm ???Brush of electrical of engineering Co LTD??? six-axle diesel locomotive HS400. This locomotive was demonstrated on the international exhibition ???the rolling stock of iron roads -71??? on st. Of [shcherbinka] of Moscow road in 1971. The body of carrying type diesel locomotive is executed with the prestressed revetment. Operator's cabs rest on the lower frame through the rubber elements. The length of diesel locomotive on the buffers 20269 mm. of bogie frame they consist of two sidewalls, two transverse intermediate beams and two end shaped beams. Maxillary type bushings. The beam rests on two adjacent bushings of each side. Bogie frame through four sets of cylindrical springs rests on four beams. The diameter of new wheels 1092 mm. on the axis of a pair of wheels are planted gears with the elements of elasticity. Transfer is one-sided, gear ratio 19:60 =1: 3,15. The general wheel base of diesel locomotive 15748 mm, the wheel base of carts -4547 mm, moreover the distance between the 1st and 2nd axis and the 6th and the 5th is equal to 2210 mm. Tractive electric motors from one side are suspended to the cross beams of cart, and with another through the hollow cylinder they rest on the axis of pairs of wheels. Between flames by cylinder and the axis of a pair of wheels placed roller bearings. On the diesel locomotive is established the sixteen-cylinder four-stroke diesel of Sulzer prepared in France 16LVA24 with the turbine supercharger and the oil cooling. Diesel with the frequency of the rotation of shaft 1100 r/min develops the nominal yield of 4000 hp the diameter of the cylinders of diesel 240 mm, piston stroke 280 mm. the weight of dry diesel 18500 kg. the fuel consumption per nominal rating 167 g/([e].[l]..[ch]). Oil of diesel is cooled by water in the heat exchanger, and water - in the radiators. Diesel sets into rotation the rotor of tractive three-phase synchronous generator BL-120-50/IOP, diesel rigidly connected with the shaft. Generator is executed in the form machine with the ten-pole rotor and the brushless excitation. The rotor of agent is placed at the end of the shaft of tractive generator, the stator of agent together with the built-in it silicic rectifiers is installed on the housing of tractive of generator. Alternating current, manufactured by tractive generator with the aid of the rectifying installation, which consists of 84 silicon diodes S20G of ?„–301 and 302 on 300 A, is converted into the direct current. At the output of installation with the frequency of the rotation of the shaft of diesel 1100 r/min can be obtained the power of 2520 kW (3110 A, 810[V]) or 2510 kW (4980 A, 504 c). Tractive electric motors [TM]73-68[M] are quadripole. During the supplying air through the electric motor of 85 [m]3/[min] it has a power of 379 kW (830 A, 504 in, 681 r/min) or 374 kW (900 A, 464 in, 610 r/min). Weight of electric motor with the gear 2806 kG. The shaft of the tractive generator through the reducer with gear ratio 2,5 and the clutch is connected with the direct-current generator and the synchronous auxiliary three-phase generator. Direct-current generator serves for the charge of storage battery and nourishment of the electric motors of the direct current of fuel and oil pumps, compressors and other auxiliary machines. Power of this generator 40,3 kW (448 A, 110 c); generator is used as the starter with launching of diesel. From the auxiliary generator the asynchronous electric motors of the fans of tractive electric motors and refrigerators feed by three-phase current: from the same generator the rectified current will be given to the space heaters of the railroad cars of passenger train. Power of auxiliary generator 530 kW. Diesel locomotive has rheostatic braking, in this case the electric motor of the fan, which cools brake resistors, obtains nourishment from one of the tractive electric motors, which work in the generator mode. Weight of diesel locomotive 126 t, the maximum speed of 177 km/h. Thrusts with the maximum speed of 4500 kG, with the speed of 30 km/h - 27000 kG, with the speed of 45 km/h - 18700 kG. Diesel locomotive initially was exploited and tested on the track 1435 mm on the British railroads, and after the equipment of it in 1971. by automatic couplings and with pairs of wheels of track 1520 mm - in an experimental ring of TsNII (Central Scientific Research Institute) MPS and a number of the sections of the railroads of the Soviet Union. Photograph in the title from the book it is cancerous. It is cancerous from the book ???Locomotives and the [motorvagonnyy] rolling stock of the railroads of the Soviet Union. 1966-1975???, Moscow ???the transport??? of 1979 g. The six-axle locomotive 4000 hp of firm Brush, more frequent named in our literature as ???[Kestrel]???, after tests to the middle of the 80's was located in [VNITI], and it is, possibly, located there now, if it is not copied to the scrap metal. The purposes of its acquisition are not entirely intelligible, t to the information, obtained as a result of its tests, it could be found partially from the technical literature, partially by acquisition and bench tests of separate units. IMHO, this was not the most interesting diesel locomotive for the study. The undercarriage ???Of [kestrela]??? - two triaxial maxillary carts with the two-step spring suspension, according to the schematic of the carts of American [tepldovozov] of the beginning of the 50th years. First stage - with the interaxial beams, the second step - cradle type. Because of grow prettier for finalizing construction this cart it made possible to realize structural speed to 200 km/h; however, according to the mass-and-size indices it was considerably inferior to domestic. The practical interest the separate units presented: motor- axial bearings, IT IS NARROW tractive transfer, suspension [TED] with the spherical silent block. Excessively large overall sizes and weight of carts caused number of problems with the layout of aggregates inside the body. For developers it was necessary to hang up compressor motor under the body (!), to use [kryshevye] refrigerators. Passages in the [mashinnnom] department were too narrow, in winter to brigade it was difficult to climb through. Body itself for the lightening it was necessary to carry out in the form prestressed construction, with the stress-bearing skin, fastened to the frame with the aid of the spot resistance welding. At the beginning of the 80's of the place of resistance welding they rusted and threw out from the pressure by finger. In connection with to our operating conditions this solution hardly can be considered acceptable. In the field testing ???Of [kestrel]??? it did not enter, true, for another reason - because of the low front window of cab to the fact is that govern diesel locomotive is possible only by sitting. Costing there it was not evidently either way or signals. After the end of the first cycle of tests power plant from the diesel locomotive was taken, and installed in [VNITI] in the form of test bench of diesel, body was preloaded with ballast for the dynamic tests with the increased load. At the end the 70's the diesel locomotive ???Of [kestrel]??? was set on the branch inside the court [VNITI], from the side of the Oka, and no longer it was used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I had it in my head that the TEP70s were the closest relatives to Kestrel- indeed, they use a 4,000hp V16 lump, and as great lagacy to Brush, are still in production. I'm sure I'd heard a rumour that her engine was even used in one. I note that that picture is at Kolomna, which is where such diesel engines (as in prime movers, not locomotives) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I couldn't remember the Russian designation Rich, you're probably right. If I'm interpreting that translation correctly (always risky, particularly with Russian!), Kestrel provided AC traction three whole (traction) generations (if you'll pardon the pun!) before GM and GE started sounding off about the SD70MAC and AC4400 respectively! If so, another British groundbreaker, albeit with Soviet help! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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