Wright writes.....

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, john new said:

Was it also perhaps to do with the increasing introduction of c-w-r track around the time the diesels came in? I remember reading somewhere (but not where) that with jointed track the harmonic patterns of short four wheeled wagons were broken by the joints, but with c-w-r the harmonics swelled and they lifted and derailed. It was this breaking the harmonics factor that allowed trains of fitted four wheel wagons to go as fast as they did in the days of jointed track.
 

Obviously the stopping power of lighter diesel locos also comes into play, hence the need for brake tenders. However, did application of prudent caution lead to curing both issues with one lower speed limit?

I think you might be confusing the 25mph for unfitted trains with the 45mph limit introduced in, I think, 1967, for all 10' or less wheelbased stock, even full fitted if such vehicles were part of the consist.  This was indeed after a spate of 'straight line derailments' caused by the build up of 'hunting' of such stock on cwr rail.  Prior to this, 10' wheelbased wagons commonly ran up to 60mph, their limit, and as is well known often much faster than this in the hands of certain ECML top link drivers of fish trains who should have known better and should have been disciplined.  Some very ill-advised running took place in the last days of through coal workings on the GC main line as well, with the 'windcutters' and 'Annesely Runners', taking advantage of guaranteed clear roads for miles ahead.

 

This culminated in the Thirsk accident in 1967 in which DP2 was wrecked, with several tragic fatalities.  Class 6, 7, and 8 trains were still allowed to run at the maximum speed permitted by the stock, so a Class 8 train of bogie bolster wagons might be allowed to run at 60mph, but any 10 or 9 foot wheelbased stock restricted you to 45mph.  A class 9 train is different, having no vacuum brake and coupled with the instanter 3-link in the 'long' position (it has to be shortened on other classes of train).  This means that the distance between the buffers is greater, which helps with shunting, and the slack taken up by the loco when starting from rest is greater as well, hence the need for lower speed.  AFAIK such trains were always limited to 25mph.

[60526]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There's a good reason to list D9001/55001 as a favourite, Clive,

 

It was the first production Deltic to enter revenue-earning service. 

 

When was 55001 withdrawn? 1979? By which time the horse would have been 22 years old (having won The Derby in 1960). 

 

I wonder if any of the A2/3 horses outlived their namesakes? It's just about possible I suppose.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

This was taken probably with a Kodak Brownie from a train passing FP in it's early days

[Anglian]

Tony,

I was wondering today if you've started building the new exhibition layout you discussed on these pages some time ago?

 

 

 

 

[APOLLO]

Thirsk accident The Johnster refers to above - report here - interesting reading.

 

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Thirsk1967.pdf

 

(scroll to the right a bit when downloaded)

 

Brit15

Edited January 8, 2020 by APOLLO

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Anglian said:

Tony,

I was wondering today if you've started building the new exhibition layout you discussed on these pages some time ago?

 

 

 

 

Not yet,

 

But it's still a possibility.

 

Things have changed inasmuch as I'm doing far more writing now than when the idea was first mooted. I'm also going to be helping Ian Wilson with a new exhibition layout - a small ex-GNR terminus!

 

I've built the C12s, the J69, the D3 and the J6s, and I've already made several of the items of rolling stock. 

 

It should be on the circuit next year.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

There is still a lot of "railway" that we as modellers can make for ourselves.

...and that's not confined to locos and rolling stock.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, 60526 said:

This was taken probably with a Kodak Brownie from a train passing FP in it's early days

Thanks for that, Charlie,

 

It must be the first few weeks of the loco's life, for it was named soon after. 

 

The greatest express passenger locomotive class to ever grace our rails? I think so.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It was the Midland Railway that introduced the Pullman car to Britain, in the 1870s, using them on London-Manchester and London-Leeds/Bradford expresses, and from 1876 on the Scotch Expresses via the Settle-Carlisle route. The Midland became increasingly unhappy with its arrangements with Pullman, buying the cars off the Pullman company in the 1880s and using them as dining carriages until it started building its own in the 1890s. Some of the surviving ex-Pullman cars ended up being used for push-pull "motor trains" in the early 20th century. So by the grouping, Pullmans were but a distant memory on the Midland.

 

In terms of passenger revenue and quantity of passenger rolling stock, the LNWR was by a good margin the largest of the companies in the passenger business going into the LMS, so yes, its operating practices prevailed at least on ex-LNWR routes including the West Coast main line - which carried a very much larger share of the London-Scotland passenger traffic than did the Midland route. In the 1893 the LNWR introduced the first true corridor dining trains and then in 1908 special sets of de-lux carriages for the principal Scottish express - the 2 o'clock.

 

Of the LMS group companies, the Caledonian had made some use of sing Pullman cars for catering on routes north of Glasgow - I think some of these remaind in use into the 1950s on the ex-Highland far north line - plus of course the observation carriage on the Oban line.

 

The general standard of LMS main line passenger stock was above that of the other groups, so there was very little call for anything better for the prestige services - even the Coronation Scot sets were basically standard vehicles.

'The general standard of LMS main line passenger stock was above that of the other groups,' 

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true............

 

The LNER's express passenger stock was second-to-none, especially with regard to the riding. Though still wooden-bodied in the main, Gresley's carriages were outstanding.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

The general standard of LMS main line passenger stock was above that of the other groups, so there was very little call for anything better for the prestige services - even the Coronation Scot sets were basically standard vehicles.

 

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true............

 

The LNER's express passenger stock was second-to-none, especially with regard to the riding. Though still wooden-bodied in the main, Gresley's carriages were outstanding.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

OK you two, report to the PE teacher after school. He will have the ring and gloves ready.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

OK you two, report to the PE teacher after school. He will have the ring and gloves ready.

 

On the whole, I'd prefer a more evidenced-based resolution than trial by combat...

 

But I'm sure we'd both agree that the Southern and Western are out of the reckoning with their four-a-side seating in third class corridor compartments?

Edited January 8, 2020 by Compound2632

[PupCam]

11 hours ago, Chamby said:

Reviewing the winners of those races since the early 1960’s reveals some great names that could have adorned locomotives in more recent years: How about these evocative winners names for a taster:

 

Snow Knight

Troy

Shergar

Dr Devious

Commander in Chief

etc

 

 

I believe there was a locomotive named Shergar although it disppeared from the shed one day and no one knows where it went ......

Edited January 8, 2020 by PupCam

[5 C]

8 minutes ago, PupCam said:

I believe there was a locomotive named Shergar although it disppeared from the shed one day and know one knows where it went ......

 

Probably to the same shed (the strategic reserve?) as the little known and quite elusive A4, Lord Lucan. 

[PupCam]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

The greatest express passenger locomotive class to ever grace our rails? I think so.

 

I might have to prefix "locomotive" with "diesel/electric" because I can't resolve the question is a Deltic better than an A4 in my mind, in much the same way that I can't resolve the question is the Supermarine Spitfire a more beautiful aeroplane than the Hawker Hunter so I dodge the question by prefixing aeroplane with propeller or jet as appropriate!

 

Maybe I'm just indecisive ....

 

Alan

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

OK you two, report to the PE teacher after school. He will have the ring and gloves ready.

For one afternoon a week, I WAS a PE teacher. 
 

How do you think I qualified? I was male, young and I could swim! Mind you, that was almost 50 years ago...................

 

Two of those qualifications still stand, but definitely not all three!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

On the whole, I'd prefer a more evidenced-based resolution than trial by combat...

 

But I'm sure we'd both agree that the Southern and Western are out of the reckoning with their four-a-side seating in third class corridor compartments?

Evidence?

 

I agree. 

 

Wasn't the BR MK.1 B1 bogie based on the LMS design? If it were so good, why did it have to be replaced by Gresley bogies on the heaviest/catering vehicles? What's the saying? On Gresley bogies, you get a meal at your seat. On B1 bogies, you get a meal in your lap! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

On Gresley bogies, you get a meal at your seat. On B1 bogies, you get a meal in your lap! 

 

 

That still sounds like trial by combat to me.

[Northmoor]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Wasn't the BR MK.1 B1 bogie based on the LMS design? If it were so good, why did it have to be replaced by Gresley bogies on the heaviest/catering vehicles? What's the saying? On Gresley bogies, you get a meal at your seat. On B1 bogies, you get a meal in your lap! 

 

BR1s didn't wide well once "worn".  Notably, Gresley bogies didn't give an especially great ride on the earlier BR EMUs.  Commonwealth bogies provided a big improvement while B4/B5 bogies were possibly even better and also offered a significant weight saving.  

Wandering off topic (as I tend to do) but BR's T4 bogie used under the Class 158/159 DMUs was considered good for much higher speeds that could be tested in the UK, so was never able to really prove itself.

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that, Charlie,

 

It must be the first few weeks of the loco's life, for it was named soon after. 

 

The greatest express passenger locomotive class to ever grace our rails? I think so.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Closely followed perhaps by the HST power cars which are locomotives. 

[60526]

Tony, another early Deltic for you, no indication of the number but early 60's, approaching Wood Green on the down main, but what was 1C31? If you are at Stevenage over the weekend then hopefully I will see you there on Saturday, looks like we can get a direct train up from Brighton for the first time. Regards Charlie

 

[Clive Mortimore]

4 minutes ago, 60526 said:

Tony, another early Deltic for you, no indication of the number but early 60's, approaching Wood Green on the down main, but what was 1C31? If you are at Stevenage over the weekend then hopefully I will see you there on Saturday, looks like we can get a direct train up from Brighton for the first time. Regards Charlie

 

Hi Charlie

 

1C31, I don't have a working timetable for the early 60s but 1 was an express, C indicates the destination was somewhere between Hitchin and Grantham  and 31 would be the train number as each express had its own number.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

For one afternoon a week, I WAS a PE teacher. 
 

How do you think I qualified? I was male, young and I could swim! Mind you, that was almost 50 years ago...................

 

Two of those qualifications still stand, but definitely not all three!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

I could guess but...

[MJI]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Evidence?

 

I agree. 

 

Wasn't the BR MK.1 B1 bogie based on the LMS design? If it were so good, why did it have to be replaced by Gresley bogies on the heaviest/catering vehicles? What's the saying? On Gresley bogies, you get a meal at your seat. On B1 bogies, you get a meal in your lap! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I think it was based on the GWR 9" bogie, which did ride OK, so not sure how they ruined it.

[Andy Reichert]

6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

You will be casting your net far and wide looking for models to make that will not be seen on others layouts.

 

I love seeing models of overhead EMUs because the modeller has modelled them. OK there is a few very modern overhead EMUs but have you ever seen a LBSCR EMU. I have a wonderful book on the LBSCR OLE.

 

There is still a lot of "railway" that we as modellers can make for ourselves.

 

 

Pic of model OH EMU as running in Los Angeles circa 1922 - 1945 .

 

These circa 1975 HO models are Japanese brass imports that still need a lot of work to glaze, paint and detail to make reasonably realistic. That will be my modelling contribution.  And the street running track they used to traverse "downtown". They do already come with all the rivets for counting tho'

 

Big Riveted Steel "Electro-Punk is my answer to "Steam Punk". Same prototype era as UK mainline Steam, but no need for a tender behind.

 

Andy

 

 

[MJI]

Best British express locos?

 

You could argue which one, but you cannot argue against many of them being among the best in the world.

 

A number of 100mph Pacifics including the record holder, and a loco which astounded the Americans.

A few smaller locomotives still capable of high speeds, and good performance.

Worlds most powerful Diesel from 55 to 63 (I think).

Worlds fastest Diesel, also with still good looking styling.

 

We even have bonkers 3rd rail EMUs.

[chris p bacon]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

It was the Midland Railway that introduced the Pullman car to Britain, in the 1870s,

 

Followed by the GN (and with it an excuse to put up a picture of the latest off the bench)

Primed this evening. Just 3 more to build...