'CHARD Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) I'm feeling a bit like Milnathort looks this morning... http://andycarr.net/NF291-09.jpg And if you would like to bid on this it's here on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milnathort-Railway-Station-Photo-Kinross-Mawcarse-North-British-Railway-/251570226349 Edited January 3, 2016 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 According to the BR database http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=D&id=6117&loco=6117the fire was caused by brake blocks igniting oil and dirt (descending Glenfarg perhaps?), but the loco was repaired by Inverurie and served until 16/8/68. There is a picture of it on a freight at Larbert (of interest to the Sons of Alloa) on 14/4/1967 - http://www.dieselimagegallery.com/detail/374-D6117;class-21;21;Green-livery;small-yellow-warning-panel;GSY;freight;Larbert-station;Larbert;1441967;1967;D6117-1-S;0113;Jim-Binnie.html J 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 All, Some very interesting and informative new post on this topic which I've just picked up. I have some signalling diagrams for some of the boxes mentioned and will look out and post tomorrow Regards, Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 All, A couple of diagrams to get you started. I have a much more recent Bridge of Earn official diagram that I'll look out with a view to scanning. kind regards, Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I noticed on the signalling diagram that I have, that a second siding was shown next to the headhunt on the down side. This is not shown on the early maps that are available via the NLS. It looks - according the above diagram - as though this is confirmed and some form of slip allows access to this siding. The diagram I have shows more likely a three way feeding this and the crossing to the Main (point 5 above). Can anyone confirm the down siding arrangements for the 1950's? The loading bank is also a query, as a bank is not obvious in the photo I have of that end of the yard, but the goods shed has an external loading facility. There is no internal facility for wagons. The loop shown above is also gone by the time of closure, but I don't know when that would have been taken out. It is shown simply as two sidings in my signal diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 4, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2016 Absolutely normal for signalling diagrams not to show the detailed layout of a goods yard but only those connections controlled by the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi 65288 Many thanks....as you say not criticism. but constructive discourse :-) Would it be possible to see your SRS diagram? (I am a member) If you'd like to draw a revised variant of one I posted I'd happily CAD up for you...as per my Strathmore Line thread. I shall add the SRO references to my equally long 'wants list'! kind regards, Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Absolutely normal for signalling diagrams not to show the detailed layout of a goods yard but only those connections controlled by the box. It is - that's why this is a little unusual in that there is a level of detail not normally associated with signalling diagrams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Sulzer27, You are right I think the difference is these are unofficial diagrams. I would concur with you that the official diagrams don't necessarily show all sidings and hand-worked points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thats great thanks. Let see what comes to light and I'll see about putting a 1st draft on CAD meantime. If you send me your email I'll send the photos I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks for that comprehensive list. Here's Mawcarse diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 20:45 Edinburgh Waverley - Perth via Polmont 22:24 Perth 155 5MT 4-6-0 SO 20:45 Edinburgh Waverley - Perth via Polmont 22:24 St Margarets 25 5MT B1 SX Return as required 11:25 Perth - Edinburgh Waverley via Polmont 11:25 Haymarket 58 7P A3 Good morning all. The thread is moving on at quite a considerable pace (which is fantastic), but if I can I would like to go back to post #94 and request some information on the route of that service. The obvious way to get to Polmont would be via the Caley mainline to Stirling, but I am assuming another option is available. Unfortunately I don't have the 1957 timetable and cannot see this train in earlier (or later) public TT's. Is there any info on how this was worked? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Good morning all. The thread is moving on at quite a considerable pace (which is fantastic), but if I can I would like to go back to post #94 and request some information on the route of that service. The obvious way to get to Polmont would be via the Caley mainline to Stirling, but I am assuming another option is available. Unfortunately I don't have the 1957 timetable and cannot see this train in earlier (or later) public TT's. Is there any info on how this was worked? John As Polmont station lies to the immediate East of the Falkirk triangle on the E&G I can't think of another way it could be done. The only alternative (on the Perth/Stirling side) route possible from Polmont-Grahamston-Larbert-Stirling etc would perhaps be to Alloa via the Swing bridge and then Northwards to Perth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The plot thickens! Many thanks J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Very confused! Railscot has photos (and I think that I have seen others) labelled as Mawcarse Jct with an island platform. Further research shows that the diagram above is correct so where are the photos from? Edited January 5, 2016 by Joseph_Pestell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The images on Railscot don't seem right at all. The close-up of the bridge doesn't look right. The deck girders are too thin and it has straight buttresses. The trees shown in the trackbed don't match - even over time, with the copse that is there and the island platform is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrour Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Sulzer 27 the top screenshot with two signals is interesting....could you give me a link to where you found it please? Thanks, R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Sadly even though I live very near the former trackbed I have not a lot to add. Nevertheless I am delighted to see a resurgence of this topic. Find it fascinating to see info on what would have been passing my house 50 years ago climbing up the bank from Bridge of Earn. Thanks to all who have contributed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) One of my main sources of information for this route is a Section W, Working TT for June to September 1953. I have transcribed it as best I can below. (The Pass column is time at Glenfarg, with bold indicating a stop) Up Services: Train Class Leave from - to Pass Arrive 626 E 12:15 am Perth - South Leith 12:56 am 4:25 am 585 F 1:55 am Perth - Meadows 2:36 am 7:23 am 384 B 6:25 am Perth - Waverley 6:48 am 8:21 am 501 J 2:30 am Aberdeen - Kelty 7:16 am 7:48 am 66 H 7:15 am Perth - Townhill Jcn 7:55 am 9:45 am 289 B 7:57 am Perth - Stirling 8:20 am 9:28 am 210 A 8:18 am Perth - Waverley 8:42 am 9:51 am 649 H 8:24 am Perth - Kelty 9:11 am 10:12 am 309 B 9:10 am Perth - Waverley 9:34 am 10:54 am 635 E 9:35 am Perth - Portobello 10:13 am 1:00 pm 298 A 12:08 pm Perth - Waverley 12:30 pm 1:50 pm 571 J 7:20 am Craiginches - Kelty 1:26 pm 2:00 pm 65 F 2:45 pm Perth - Townhill Jcn 3:25 am 5:25 am 256 A 3:27 pm Perth - Waverley 3:49 pm 5:00 pm 59 H 4:00 pm Glenfarg - Kelty 4:00 pm 6:40 pm 311 B 4:25 pm Perth - GQS 4:50 pm 6:54 pm 315 B 5:36 pm Perth - Waverley 6:02 pm 7:36 pm 346 A 3:20 pm Inverness - Waverley 7:27 pm 8:39 pm 321 A 7:50 pm Perth - Waverley 8:12 pm 9:29 pm 541 D 7:50 pm Dundee - West Carlisle 9:27 pm 4:52 am 73 H 9:35 pm Perth - Townhill Jcn 10:15 pm 11:35 pm 633 E 10:45 pm Perth - Portobello 11:23 pm 2:33 am Down Services; Train Class Leave from - to Pass into Perth 546 D 10:26 pm Leith Walk E - Perth North 3:14 am 3:50 am 66 H 2:30 am Townhill Jcn - Perth North 4:03 am 4:55 am 519 J 2:02 am Kelty - Perth North 2:47 am 3:37 am 737 H 12:10 pm Niddrie West - Perth North 6:20 am 7:30 am 767 C 1:30 am Carlisle - Perth North 6:58 am 7:20 am 279 B 6:28 am Waverley - Perth 8:17 am 8:36 am 280 A 7:40 am Waverley - Perth 8:59 am 9:12 am 285 B 8:45 am Waverley - Perth 10:16 am 10:34 am 288 A 10:12 am Waverley - Inverness 11:36 am 11:51 am 58 H 11:15 am Townhill Jcn - Perth South 12:45 pm 1:15 pm 122 H 2:00 pm Kelty - Glenfarg 2:40 pm terminates 633 D 12:27 pm Niddrie West - Perth North 3:40 pm 4:15 pm 366 A 2:05 pm Waverley - Perth 3:20 pm 3:34 pm 309 B 2:45 pm Stirling - Perth 4:15 pm 4:35 pm 503 D 8:00 am Carlisle - Perth North 4:40 pm 5:26 pm 336 B 4:05 pm Waverley - Perth 5:37 pm 5:56 pm 305 B 4:37 pm GQS - Perth 6:43 pm 7:03 pm 515 H 5:40 pm Oakley - Perth North 7:41 pm 8:40 pm 307 A 6:50 pm Waverley - Perth 8:08 pm 8:25 pm 633 D 5:18 pm Niddrie West - Perth South 8:25 pm 8:58 pm 634 C 7:45 pm Leith Walk E - Perth South 9:47 pm 10:35 pm 312 B 10:45 pm Waverley - Perth 12:09 pm 12:26 am 337 A 11:10 pm Waverley - Perth 12:23 pm 12:38 pm I am now trying to reconcile the '51 public TT, the '52 carriage workings, the '53 WTT and the info provided in the thread above on engine workings, to try and create an amalgam that suits my purpose and provides a general picture of the services. There seemed to be a consistency of service over the early years of BR, but some changes seems to start around the 1957 timetable. John Edited January 8, 2016 by sulzer27jd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I came across this interesting working that also relates to the Strathmore line. September 1955, Thornton 62A Roster Turn no. 5 engine - 8F (WD) Off Thornton Weighs at 7.40am, routed via Ladybank and Bridge of Earn and into Coupar Angus at 10.30am. 5 minutes allowed for a crew change, where the Thornton men (turn 66) swapped with Ferryhill men (Turn 41). The Ferryhill working had left Craiginches at 7.20am. They then left Coupar Angus at 10.35 and took the train back to Aberdeen, The Thornton men worked back, leaving Coupar Angus at 10.38 and working via Glenfarg into Kelty at 2.00pm. They then worked light engine to Thornton. Thornton provided the motive power Mon, Wed and Friday, working the return on Tues, Thurs and Sat. Ferryhill provided the opposite power using their engine turn no. 28. They did have a WD, but I cannot confirm if this was rostered for this service. Can anyone provide info on what would have worked the Aberdeen Ferryhill turn if not a WD? Also, in the 1953 WTT there are a couple of unbalanced working between Carlisle and Perth. It would of course be relatively easy to find a way back for them by another route, but does anyone have info on the likely motive power for these? Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Great info again - although I could only ever find one WD at Ferryhill. Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Craig Watson Posted January 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Followed this thread with interest for a while, myself and Donny4472 walked the tunnels at Glenfarg a few years ago. I was catching up tonight in between working on buildings for my HO layout getting it ready for Glasgow and remembered I have these diagrams in my collection which were saved from a skip in HQ by a colleague many moons ago, I think they are of relevance to the thread! I dug them out tonight and grabbed a few quick pics of the relevant sections. Hope they are of interest! Craig Edited January 27, 2016 by Craig Watson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNSRAMemsec Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 This would appear to confirm that there were two sidings at the north end of Glenfarg down side yard. It also shows the revised access from the yard to the down line. The branch from Mawcarse is showing as going to Ladybank. This closed in January 1957 so helps to date the map. I have a distant memory of a footplate run between Auchtermuchty and Strathmiglo on a Saturday morning goods around 1964. I'm not sure if the line was open between Ladybank and 'Muchty at that time though but it certainly was towards Mawcarse. I'll need to check my records to confirm dates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNSRAMemsec Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Apologies! What I was trying to say is that Auctermuchty to Ladybank closed in 1957. The branch remained open for freight between Mawcarse and Auchtermuchty until October 1964. The fact that the branch is shown as "To Ladybank" as opposed to "To Auchtermuchty" suggests that the map pre-dates the closure of the Auchtermuchty - Ladybank section. Thanks very much 65288_62C you have answered my underlying question about the section from Muchty to Ladybank! Great forum this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi, I always thought that the passenger working on the Ladybank end of this branch was interesting. The line from Mawcarse joined the main line south of Ladybank station and heading in the up direction (Edinburgh). There was a bay platform at the South end of the Ladybank down platform. Passenger trains off the branch ran into a headshunt and reversed into the bay, arriving coaches first. Trains for Mawcarse waited in the bay with the locomotive at the buffers and left by propelling his train out of the bay before reversing and heading up the branch. Had the service lasted beyond the mid 50s it would have possibly been a suitable use for the little railbuses. best wishes, Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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