Morris Cowley car trains

[Michael Delamar]

Im looking for photographs and info on trains of Morris car trains from Abingdon in the 1960s.

 

Ideally I would like info on trains that ran from there to North Mersey goods Liverpool. such as the route they took.

 

I have a photograph of a WD hauling a train of new left hand drive Morris cars heading towards Liverpool in 1965 at Pemberton near Wigan on the L&Y route.

 

the main reason is that I am trying to find evidence of a Hymek on this working to Liverpool which Mike T has been looking into for a number of years, but I am also interested in normal workings of this train.

 

what I would ideally like is any photographs or evidence of Hymeks on this train, doesnt have to be in the Liverpool area, can be anywhere on route.

 

thanks in advance for any help

 

Mike

Edited February 23, 2013 by Michael Delamar

['CHARD]

The source is surely destined to be the same snapper who captured Class 50s in action over the Waverley route....    

[Enterprisingwestern]

The source is surely destined to be the same snapper who captured Class 50s in action over the Waverley route....    

 

He also photographed the Claytons on the Somerset and Dorset.

 

Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

Bit of a mix up here i think Michael because as far as I'm aware only MGs were loaded out of Abingdon and the Abingdon trains were in any case tripped to Hinksey normally (D63XX once dieselisation had arrived I believe).  Morris badged vehicles would have been loaded at Moscow (as we knew it, i.e Morris Cowley) and there were various workings from there including some which started direct and others which were tripped to Hinksey and started as mainline trains from there.

 

So although it might not make much difference in searching you will be after trains which started from Hinksey or Morris Cowley although occasional specials from Abingdon are a possibility.

[BrushVeteran]

Bit of a mix up here i think Michael because as far as I'm aware only MGs were loaded out of Abingdon and the Abingdon trains were in any case tripped to Hinksey normally (D63XX once dieselisation had arrived I believe).  Morris badged vehicles would have been loaded at Moscow (as we knew it, i.e Morris Cowley) and there were various workings from there including some which started direct and others which were tripped to Hinksey and started as mainline trains from there.

 

So although it might not make much difference in searching you will be after trains which started from Hinksey or Morris Cowley although occasional specials from Abingdon are a possibility.

 

Some of the final Morris 1000 Travellers were assembled at Abingdon but in any case, as you mention, the trains from Abingdon and Cowley were tripped to Hinksey and remarshalled to form onward shipments to Liverpool, Bathgate and Felixstowe. I remember spending a couple of days with a freind of my late Father in the Summer of 1966 shunting the carflats in the old Abingdon station with an NBL Type 2.

[Fat Controller]

One thing to note about the MG traffic is that, if the evidence of photos of the station are to believed, a lot went out in an assortment of end-loading vans long after other car traffic had gone to Carflats of various types. The photos I'm thinking of had various types of four-wheel and bogie CCT/GUVs, with a smattering of MOGOs. Thus a train bound for export might look like a parcels working, rather than a train of clearly-visible cars.

I wonder why they stuck to vans for so long- surely they didn't lack confidence in the waterproofing of their hoods and tonneau covers?

[The Stationmaster]

One thing to note about the MG traffic is that, if the evidence of photos of the station are to believed, a lot went out in an assortment of end-loading vans long after other car traffic had gone to Carflats of various types. The photos I'm thinking of had various types of four-wheel and bogie CCT/GUVs, with a smattering of MOGOs. Thus a train bound for export might look like a parcels working, rather than a train of clearly-visible cars.

I wonder why they stuck to vans for so long- surely they didn't lack confidence in the waterproofing of their hoods and tonneau covers?

When they were loaded to Carflats (and probably earlier?) polythene sheeting was applied over the hoods (same on those shipped out by road transporter).

[Guest Phil]

Sorry I cannot be specific Mike, but there is a Flickr image of what we believe is a Morris Cowley - North Mersey train of loaded carflats steaming through Priestfield Jn behind a Britannia. Priestfield Jn was on the Birmingham Snow Hill - Wolverhampton Low Level route, and I am assuming the train ran via Banbury, Leamington and Birmingham Snow Hill.

 

Here is a link to the image and hope it helps

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61378292@N06/5643970337/in/photostream/

[Michael Delamar]

all very interesting and useful, it is the trains to Liverpool docks I am interested in

 

so what shed would have provided the motive power?

 

I am guessing the final half of the journey was via Crewe?

[The Stationmaster]

all very interesting and useful, it is the trains to Liverpool docks I am interested in

 

so what shed would have provided the motive power?

 

I am guessing the final half of the journey was via Crewe?

All I can find from the early '60s is a 21.15 Morris Cowley - Bordesley - which from the WTT entry would appear not to be a regular runner.

[bigherb]

 

I wonder why they stuck to vans for so long- surely they didn't lack confidence in the waterproofing of their hoods and tonneau covers?

Probably to stop damage claims for cinder damage to the roofs.

[jonhall]

From 'The Transport Age' magazine issue 27 October 1963

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Fascinating stuff, Jon.

[Michael Delamar]

"and almost every day a special train leaves for Manchester,MERSEYSIDE,Hull or Felixstowe"

 

Thats a great article Jon, thanks for posting,Im glad it mentioned trains to Merseyside, cant quite tell if that means for distributing in the area or for export, could be both I guess but id lean towards export. I notice it doesnt say a train a day to all those destinations but "or".

 

Ive also been told about who the pilot was who is supposed to have piloted a Hymek on this train to Liverpool, I actually know him so next time I see him ill quiz him about it.

 

the shot of the train near Pemberton Wigan is headed by an Aintree loco so im guessing that sheds locos took over the train on its later part of its journey but where exactly im yet to find out.

 

I know nothing about Oxfords railways so Id like to know what shed's locos worked the train.

I think Evening Star was an Oxford loco and it is reported that loco got to Aintree on a freight one year.

[BrushVeteran]

"and almost every day a special train leaves for Manchester,MERSEYSIDE,Hull or Felixstowe"

 

Thats a great article Jon, thanks for posting,Im glad it mentioned trains to Merseyside, cant quite tell if that means for distributing in the area or for export, could be both I guess but id lean towards export. I notice it doesnt say a train a day to all those destinations but "or".

 

Ive also been told about who the pilot was who is supposed to have piloted a Hymek on this train to Liverpool, I actually know him so next time I see him ill quiz him about it.

 

the shot of the train near Pemberton Wigan is headed by an Aintree loco so im guessing that sheds locos took over the train on its later part of its journey but where exactly im yet to find out.

 

I know nothing about Oxfords railways so Id like to know what shed's locos worked the train.

I think Evening Star was an Oxford loco and it is reported that loco got to Aintree on a freight one year.

 Michael

 

Oxford shed provided the motive power for the Bathgate trains and these were worked by Brittania's and usually brought a Polmadie 'Scottish' example on the balancing working. I remember the likes of 'Arrow', 'Western Star', Flying Dutchman', Firth of Forth', 'Firth of Tay' being used on these trains. I'm talking around the mid sixties here just as steam was ending but I am led to beleive that 9F's were used on the Meseyside trains until the advent of Brush Type 4's. I have seen Western's heading north on car trains as well so these may well have worked as far as Crewe or further. The Felixstowe trains I can remember were always Hymek powered but I assume this was only as far as Acton Yard as Western Region locos were not generally favoured over the North London Line due to the WR ATC fouling the third rail. This is what I have been told and indeed I witnessed the pyrotechnics at West Hampstead one frosty morning, very impressive!  I can find out more if you wish or alternatively speak to Mike at Howes, he used to be a dab hand on the shovel when he was at Oxford depot!

[Michael Delamar]

Michael

I'm talking around the mid sixties here just as steam was ending but I am led to beleive that 9F's were used on the Meseyside trains until the advent of Brush Type 4's. I have seen Western's heading north on car trains as well so these may well have worked as far as Crewe or further

Westerns are interesting too on these trains. and that is just the period I am interested in.

 

when I bump into the chap who said he piloted a Hymek I will quiz him further, he is usually at the Liverpool model railway show in April, but I know he does have quite a vivid memory so if he says Hymek Ill believe him.

 

Im guessing these trains changed motive power at Crewe then ran via Wigan Wallgate to Liverpool.

 

the Hymek mystery is only part of the interest, Im interested in these trains anyway.

 

Mike

[Michael Delamar]

just flicking through Kenn Pierce's excellent book Shedside on Merseyside...

 

"During the 1960s, locomotives working into Aintree on freight trains ranged from far and wide. One such working, the 13.50 Morris Cowley-North Mersey class 4 freight, in the 1960s would often turn up an unusual 'foreigner'. In early 1963, for example, this freight from the Midlands had British Railway's final locomotive built at its head when '9F' No.92220 Evening Star (Based at Oxford) rolled into Aintree sorting sidings"

[Michael Delamar]

just found this..

 

"Down car train north of Kings Sutton View southward, towards Oxford and London; ex-Great Western main line: London, Didcot, Oxford etc. - Banbury, Birmingham etc. In the early post-war days of the Motor Car Age, new cars were conveyed in trains of special open wagons, in this case from the Morris Cowley plant to a distribution centre up North (probably in Scotland). The train is running Class C (fully-fitted), with a new BR Standard 9F 2-10-0, No. 92224. 1963"

 

© Copyright Ben Brooksbank and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Michael Delamar

[TheSignalEngineer]

just flicking through Kenn Pierce's excellent book Shedside on Merseyside...

 

"During the 1960s, locomotives working into Aintree on freight trains ranged from far and wide. One such working, the 13.50 Morris Cowley-North Mersey class 4 freight, in the 1960s would often turn up an unusual 'foreigner'. In early 1963, for example, this freight from the Midlands had British Railway's final locomotive built at its head when '9F' No.92220 Evening Star (Based at Oxford) rolled into Aintree sorting sidings"

I saw Evening Star at Snow Hill several times on the Cowley workings. Another unusual one was 70054 on the Bathgate. The first vehicle was a GUV. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1248.htm

[mikeh]

Hi Mike

 

In the 1963 WTT 4S72 1.50pm Morris Colwey-Bathgate ran MWO with a SO path suspended. The North Mersey trains were not in the WTT but ran as specials by SN.

There were aslso M.C.-Hull specials that presumably ran via the GC from Banbury.

 

A couple of notes from contemporary magazines:

 

Railway Observer Dec 1962

On 1st October a fitted freight train conveying new cars from the Cowley factory to Scotland was introduced. The train, which at present runs once a week, is worked as far as Crewe by an Oxford 9F.

 

On the return journey commercial vehicles and tractors are brought from the new BMC factory at Bathgate to Morris Cowley, the 9F returning from Crewe with this train, but on several occasions engines are borrowed from Crewe, on 12.10.62 Britannia 70029 (5A) was used. This particular engine worked the 10-20pm Morris Cowley-North Mersey fitted freight the same day.

 

Many thanks to Jon for the Transport Age scans - very interesting. Do you have Private Sidings 1 and 2?

 

Regards

Mike

 

In view of the expansion of exports of British cars, Morris Cowley has seen several visitors bringing in car empties from Mersey. Cl.8F 48555 (5B) arrived on 8th October and 42854 (6C) on 23rd.

 

Modern Railways March 1963

Oxford (81F) 9Fs work 1:50pm Morris Cowley-North Mersey Class 4 & return working, including No. 92220.

[Guest Phil]

The routeing of these MosCow-North Mersey workings was presumably from the former WR onto the LMR at Cannock road sidings Wolverhampton then ? This is based on the photograph I linked to, of the train passing Priestfield Jn, the next regional interface would have been after the train had passed through Wolverhampton Low Level. either turning right at Cannock Rd, thence onto the Grand Junction lines at Bushbury, then forward to Stafford and Crewe. Alternatively the train could have continued on the former GWR line via Oxley and Shrewsbury, then via Wrexham or via Wem to Crewe.   

[Michael Delamar]

thanks Mike, not to sure what all the acronyms mean, whats SN?

 

our club has/had pretty much all the 1960s modern railways magazines and I remember years ago I would always pull out any shots that had cars on trains, will need to go through them again to see if there is any shots of this particular working. there always did seem to be a good few shots of car trains.

 

Phil, Id be interested to find out the exact route too, although Im not well up on either route between Crewe and Birmingham.

 

the DVD Diesels and Electrics on 35mm has a green split headcode class 40 with a train of BMC cars, 13 bogies and 2 BR GUVs on the rear aswel as a BR brake van at each end and all the cars facing the rear so id guess that would be a Bathgate working? first digit of the headcode isnt visible, id imagine it to be 4, the rest is X 04. location isnt given sadly.

 

and regards the Hymek, where they allocated to Oxford?

Im hoping this Hymek working if it did turn up was during the green period but it may have been in the blue era.

[Michael Delamar]

Mike T's thread on another forum which is 9 years old now asking the question of the Hymek, some interesting points, such as sitings of a Western at York on a Morris Cowley-Bathgate working in 1975...

 

http://uk.railway.narkive.com/Ru8cTJYt/hymek-in-liverpool

[The Stationmaster]

thanks Mike, not to sure what all the acronyms mean, whats SN?

 

our club has/had pretty much all the 1960s modern railways magazines and I remember years ago I would always pull out any shots that had cars on trains, will need to go through them again to see if there is any shots of this particular working. there always did seem to be a good few shots of car trains.

 

Phil, Id be interested to find out the exact route too, although Im not well up on either route between Crewe and Birmingham.

 

the DVD Diesels and Electrics on 35mm has a green split headcode class 40 with a train of BMC cars, 13 bogies and 2 BR GUVs on the rear aswel as a BR brake van at each end and all the cars facing the rear so id guess that would be a Bathgate working? first digit of the headcode isnt visible, id imagine it to be 4, the rest is X 04. location isnt given sadly.

 

and regards the Hymek, where they allocated to Oxford?

Im hoping this Hymek working if it did turn up was during the green period but it may have been in the blue era.

AFAIK Oxford never had an allocation of diesel locos other than shunters - but that's not odd as relatively few Western depots actually had locomotives allocated to them although they might have served as a base for some diagrams.  Many WR Type 4s were on cyclic diagrams which took them away from their home depot for anything between 3 and 5 days and something similar might have happened with Hymeks - as long as a loco could be fuelled and receive an A exam it didn't matter where it went unless it failed for some reason.

[Michael Delamar]

how common/rare where the Hymeks at Birmingham snow hill? a brief search and I cant find any pics of them there.

if they where rare im guessing the occasion im looking for was after Snow hill closed and it went via another route?

 

I think the class 40 I mentioned earlier may have been a Longbridge train.