ZTC 611 UPDATED CONTROLLER!

[Kris]

Given the previous history of this, I will be waiting for others to try the upgrade before committing money.

[Nigelcliffe]

But I admit that I do hope that the PC interface is compatible with something that lets me read and program CV speed tables in bulk from software, as that is the point at which button pressing gets tedious!

 

I suggest finding out how fast the new controller is at reading/writing CV's, and whether it can access high number CV's (ie. those above CV256).   The old 500-series units are amongst the slowest at reading a CV that I've ever used.   So, any computer link will reduce button pushing, but could replace it with endless drumming of fingers on desk waiting for something to be read.   I also note that Operations Mode Programming (aka. Programming on the Main) was not mentioned in the list of new ZTC 600-series features.

 

Alternatively, for about £50, a Sprog computer interface is amongst the fastest devices I know at reading/writing CV's.  Use that for setting up locos, and use the controller of your choice to drive the trains.  

 

 

- Nigel

[NickL]

Alternatively, for about £50, a Sprog computer interface is amongst the fastest devices I know at reading/writing CV's.  Use that for setting up locos, and use the controller of your choice to drive the trains.  

 

Thanks for that suggestion - I will look into that.

 

I actively don't want to be using a computer, or anything too visibly related to one, to control my layout or stock - I model to get away from all that world - but setting up locos is a different issue.

 

Nick

[Adrian Wintle]

I suggest finding out how fast the new controller is at reading/writing CV's,

 

That is partly dependent on the decoder as well. My Lenz system reads values out of Digitrax decoders much faster than it does out of Lenz ones.

 

Adrian

[Crosland]

That is partly dependent on the decoder as well. My Lenz system reads values out of Digitrax decoders much faster than it does out of Lenz ones.

 

Adrian

That's more suggestive of different modes being used, e.g. it's using page mode for the Lenz and direct bit mode for the Digitrax.

 

Easy way to tell is if the time to read a CV varies with the value. Page mode tries up to 256 values until the decoder replies "correct". Direct mode can always do it in 8 or 16 operations.

 

Andrew

[shibushe]

8 years with my two 511s &  I wont be upgrading. I am more than happy just as they are.

[Peter Bedding]

As a 511 owner, I'd thought I'd add my two pennyworth..

 

I also saw this notification a few days ago, and I'm delighted. Partly because I can have an upgrade, and partly because it presumably means that Neil has managed to get the ZTC business into a position where it can support product development.

 

The £199 cost of the upgrade doesn't bother me in the slightest, and what it brings my total spend to is utterly irrelevant. Not because I'm rolling in filthy lucre, but because the £500 or whatever it was I spent on the 511 six or seven years ago is gone. A "sunk cost", in the jargon. The £199 has to be judged against what I would need to spend now to replace the 511 with another brand controller offering similar facilities to the 611, since that's the alternative.

 

And since I couldn't give two hoots about colour touch screen displays, wireless controls or the ability to operate my layout over the internet from a  hammock in the Seychelles, but do like being able to "play trains" with a control interface that looks more like a loco cab than yet another remote control for the telly, actually my choice of alternatives is pretty limited... To zero, unless I'm much mistaken...

 

But I admit that I do hope that the PC interface is compatible with something that lets me read and program CV speed tables in bulk from software, as that is the point at which button pressing gets tedious!

 

Cheers all

 

Nick

 

Hello Nick,

 

My sentiments are much the same, My 505 has done all that I wish for just over 5 years, and far better than my Elite, and it is gratifying to know that the new ZTC management has faith in the future.

 

PB

[Adrian Wintle]

That's more suggestive of different modes being used, e.g. it's using page mode for the Lenz and direct bit mode for the Digitrax.

 

Easy way to tell is if the time to read a CV varies with the value. Page mode tries up to 256 values until the decoder replies "correct". Direct mode can always do it in 8 or 16 operations.

 

Andrew

 

And the control station decides which mode to use by querying whether the decoder supports direct bit mode, not by any action on the part of the user. This means that it is dependent on the decoder, not the control station.

 

Adrian

[Crosland]

And the control station decides which mode to use by querying whether the decoder supports direct bit mode, not by any action on the part of the user. This means that it is dependent on the decoder, not the control station.

 

Adrian

 

It depends how the command station implements direct bit mode. Digitrax decoders are (or at least used to be) particular about the exact sequence of operations (the spec allows for some variation) where other decoders are not.

 

Andrew

[SimonME46]

I'd be interested in this upgrade, mostly for the 28 function capability. I agree with recent posters - my 511 + 622 has served me well for years, and there is no alternative that has such an interface. I have no interest in using a TV remote/phone/computer to drive my trains. I am building a mechanically interlocked lever frame for the points/signals, and would like to go further with the locomotive control interface (even less buttons). I've got an ESULokprogrammer for my coding needs.

[westonp]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been happy with my three 511s and two 622s, but the lack of sufficient functions has been frustrating for a while now.

 

I am pleased ZTC has now announced an upgrade, but my outlay will obviously be £597 to have all three 511s upgraded, plus postage! With an ESU ECoS advertised by Digitrains for £508, I'm now wondering if it would be worth buying one of those and running the 511s as slaves, which I think is possible. Could someone please confirm this?

 

Thank you,

 

Paul.

[Derekl]

Trying to access the ZTC web-page via Google search, I get a "Forbidden" plus error 403 message.

 

Anybody know why?

[Dagworth]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been happy with my three 511s and two 622s, but the lack of sufficient functions has been frustrating for a while now.

 

I am pleased ZTC has now announced an upgrade, but my outlay will obviously be £597 to have all three 511s upgraded, plus postage! With an ESU ECoS advertised by Digitrains for £508, I'm now wondering if it would be worth buying one of those and running the 511s as slaves, which I think is possible. Could someone please confirm this?

 

Thank you,

 

Paul.

Yes that would be possible, but only by using the sniffer port of the ECoS. You cannot use the 511s/622s as true slaves on ECoS as the communication between the different systems works in different ways.

Basically you would take the output from your master 511 that currently goes to the track, and put that track signal into the sniffer port of the ECoS. ECoS then listens to the instructions coming from the 511's track output, converts them and then puts them out on its own track output to the track. You can also of course control trains from ECoS (And signals, points, routes... and have proper identities (and images should you so wish) for you locos on ECoS) but any instruction that you gie to a loco from ECoS will not be known about by the ZTC set-up as the communication is one way only, ZTC to ECoS but not back to ZTC. You would still be limited to the current 8 functions of your ZTC set up while driving from and of the ZTC controllers.

 

(If you need more info I have both ECoS and ZTC here)

 

Andi

[pauliebanger]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been happy with my three 511s and two 622s, but the lack of sufficient functions has been frustrating for a while now.

 

I am pleased ZTC has now announced an upgrade, but my outlay will obviously be £597 to have all three 511s upgraded, plus postage! With an ESU ECoS advertised by Digitrains for £508, I'm now wondering if it would be worth buying one of those and running the 511s as slaves, which I think is possible. Could someone please confirm this?

 

Thank you,

 

Paul.

 

Paul,

 

From your post, additional function control is your motivation, I believe. 

 

I'm not sure that your unmodified ZTC units would send any additional F key commands for the the ECoS to 'sniff'. If that's so, this route may not provide the solution to what you are seeking.

 

Even if that's possible, just confirm how many function keys the ECoS has available. ESU website says 20, but that's probably not up-to date. It would be surprising if such an expensive controller could not access F keys 20 to 28.

 

I'm sure ECoS users will advise correct position.

 

Bear in mind that the promised ZTC upgrade will give access to F28, that would be 29 F keys including F0.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[two tone green]

ECoS supports up to F28 plus FO so 29 functions.

 

Its split between 9 hardware buttons and 20 software button on the touch screen so as the DCC function range increases it can be handled via a down loadable firmware upgrade.

 

Don't forget as well that the ECoS has two controllers built in so two locos and all its functions are in view all the time. And then there is multiple view so you can have ten locos on the screen, five per side.

 

All functions are fully customisable via the ECoS so you can remove them from the screen if they are not used. to avoid clutter and the symbols for them as well can be changed.

 

If you want to read about it, down load the manual here.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

[westonp]

Thank you for all your replies. I have some pondering to do!

 

Paul.

[pauliebanger]

ECoS supports up to F28 plus FO so 29 functions.

 

Its split between 9 hardware buttons and 20 software button on the touch screen so as the DCC function range increases it can be handled via a down loadable firmware upgrade.

 

Don't forget as well that the ECoS has two controllers built in so two locos and all its functions are in view all the time. And then there is multiple view so you can have ten locos on the screen, five per side.

 

All functions are fully customisable via the ECoS so you can remove them from the screen if they are not used. to avoid clutter and the symbols for them as well can be changed.

 

If you want to read about it, down load the manual here.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

Two Tone,

 

Thanks for the info, that answers my query. It did seem unlikely that the ESU web info was correct.

 

Kind regards

 

Paul

[two tone green]

The extra functions were added in a firmware upgrade last year to version 3.6 I think it was.

 

The manual was written for version 3.4.

[Combe Martin]

Trying to access the ZTC web-page via Google search, I get a "Forbidden" plus error 403 message.

 

Anybody know why?

I have no problem getting to ZTC using http://www.ztccontrols.co.uk/

[Lockey]

 A lot of people seem to knock ZTC, but Neil has taken on the company and is making improvements to the products and the range. My 511 was bought from Robin Palmer,and is about 15 years old now, provides a great driving experience, and has never let me down! I shall be upgrading to a 611 as soon as I can. Well done Neil !!!

 

Regards Lockey

Edited June 28, 2013 by Lockey

[The Fatadder]

I do rather miss my old 511, and if I still had it would have been tempted by an upgrade

Nothing I've used since comes close to the feel of using it, though I certainly don't miss all of its bugs and other oddities.

[traction]

Shame it's been delayed.

[GoingUnderground]

 A lot of people seem to knock ZTC, but Neil has taken on the company and is making improvements to the products and the range. My 511 was bought from Robin Palmer,and is about 15 years old now, provides a great driving experience, and has never let me down! I shall be upgrading to a 611 as soon as I can. Well done Neil !!!

 

Regards Lockey

 

I'm pleased for you that your experience has been favourable. I'm afraid that was not the case with me and my 505. I cut my losses and ran.

 

Shame it's been delayed.

 

Any idea on the length of the delay?

[traction]

Due Autumn now.

[Combe Martin]

I do rather miss my old 511, and if I still had it would have been tempted by an upgrade

Nothing I've used since comes close to the feel of using it, though I certainly don't miss all of its bugs and other oddities.

Its worth pointing out, that the upgrade (ie the 611) will have a completely new mother board made using more modern components and with much larger capacity memory chips. The software is being completely re-written from scratch in a more modern programming language which will make it much easier to add new enhancements and maintain. So 511 software bugs wont move to the 611.