Gordon A Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Ladies & Gents, I am rekindling my research into Bitterley Wharf, the exchange point for wagons heading up the Clee Hill rope worked incline. I have a copy of Branch Line Byways by G. F. Banister which shows a scissors crossover on the Ludlow side of the road bridge. Can anyone tell me when this was put in as all the plans I have seen do not show this piece of P & C work? I also have Railway Bylines for February-March 1996 and the 7th June 2004. Can anyone point me in the direction of any other material in particular a scaled plan showing the scissors crossover and any photos please? Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 PGH, Thank you for the plan which ties in nicely with the photographs I have. Was the wharf still in use when you visited? Sight of any pictures, even if they are poor of the trackwork in this area would be apreciated. Many thanks. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 PGH, Many thanks for the plan and photo. Re the brake wagon, the information I have shows that it it is always at the bottom end of any rakes of wagons going up or down the incline, which makes me wonder how they released the wagons without chopping the cable. Some inclines up north had breaks in the rail which allowed the cable to drop below flange level so the wagons could run over the top. I have not seen any evidence of this facility at the Bitterley end of the incline. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted May 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2013 There are some photos of the top of the incline here, although sadly none of Bitterley, but it does show how the cables disappeared under the track to reach the winding house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Thanks PGH. I will look at getting 'Titterstone Clee Hills' and start searching various photo collections. Mark, Thanks for the link. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I think the cable was attached to the 'brake wagon' after running underneath the wagons so it took the load. The haulage rope couldn't have been permanently attached otherwise, as you say, the mainline wagons couldn't have been attached/detached. I wrote an article and a drawing of the brake wagon in the late 'Modelling Railways Illustrated' magazine in the 90's but not sure of the issue. I'll have a look. The photos in the 'Bylines' articles came in useful as did an old issue of the HMRS Journal which had a drawing of the original version of the wagon. I've always had an interest in this line. Chris Hewitt from Liverpool has/had a small layout based on it (and an Iain Rice plan) on which he ran a brake wagon built from my drawing. At least someone read the article! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Thanks 5050, the information could be useful. The next hurdle is to work out how to pick up and drop the cable remotely - no HoG. I havestarted to look at this location as a possible small layout - 4 turnouts and a trap point if you use the road bridge as a scenic divider, with the possibilty of extending the layout to include the scissors crossover and loop at a later date. The inspiration for this are Juniper Hill and Stoating Bank Time to have a play with Templot when I get a spare hour or so. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted May 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2013 Definately worthwhile having a look at Iain Rice's interpretation, think it's in "Finescale in Small Spaces" (Wild Swan) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted May 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2013 Chris Hewitt from Liverpool has/had a small layout based on it (and an Iain Rice plan) on which he ran a brake wagon built from my drawing. At least someone read the article! I think Meryside MRS did a EM gauge model of Iain's plan, that may have been in BRM once upon a time......Angel Bank?? There are a couple of photos from last year's ExpoEM North here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Chaps, Thank you for the further replies. Angel Bank is based on Bitterley, however the engine shed has been brought down from the top of the incline and the relative locations of the incline, signal box and road bridge have been changed round. I have seen Angel Bank a couple of times which I liked. As a layout I would be very chuffed if I could finish a model to that standard. I would like to build a model of the foot of the incline as it was just before closure, from the road bridge to the buffer stops. I think my next stop will be to order a copy of a large OS map to calaculate the size of the site. A brainwave reminded me that I have a copy of R.ACooke's Track Layout Diagrams for Herford. In there the scissors crossover,the two aditional sidings adjacent the incline and the re routing of the incline into the headshunt are shown in a plan dated 1923. There must have been a serious upsurge in traffic to justify those changes and others to the track layout. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Gordon, try http://www.old-maps.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I think Meryside MRS did a EM gauge model of Iain's plan, that may have been in BRM once upon a time......Angel Bank?? That's the one I was thinking of. Chris Hewitt built it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 mjcampbell, Yes I have tried Old Maps. Unfortunately the OS did not revise the track layout on their 1953 /54 map. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Ah, most inconvenient of the OS not to record track layouts in accurate detail! I was thinking more of the size and layout of the site, if it helps for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Hi mjcampbell, Yes I am thinking about scanning a 1970s map which does not show any track to give me the size of the site into Templot, then plot the track on top. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It's probably not going to be much help with finding out trackplans but I briefly worked on the Bitterley Estate and I know the man who owns the land that the yard stood on. I could probably sort out a site visit at some point if theres any interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Thank you Hesperus, That is an interesting offer which i would like to take up some time later this year if possible. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'll send him a letter if I don't run into him at some point in the near future. Send me a PM nearer the time to remind me if you don't hear anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) mjcampbell, Yes I have tried Old Maps. Unfortunately the OS did not revise the track layout on their 1953 /54 map. Gordon A Bristol Have you tried old aerial photographic surveys? Thinking about Google Earth here, but can't access it at present from this pc or I'd look for you. Edited June 1, 2013 by Osgood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Osgood, i have a couple of RAF pictures from English Heritage. I am looking at 1950/60 s period. Does Google Earth have historic aerial photos covering that period? Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Gordon - just managed to get a look on G Earth, and unfortunately this area has no historical coverage. Back only to 1990 (though some of the 4 or so photos mayshow different detail as taken at different times of year). Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted June 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2013 Gordon, i had a quick think about getting a non HoG method of uncoupling/coupling up the cable. The first was using a wagon permanently attached to the cable a sort of runner wagon, and just uncoupling the rest using the auto coupler of your choice The second method was a continuous cable (escalator style) that had a hook attached. A rake of wagons could come down the incline and at the bottom the returning action would drop the hook through a slot in the baseboard and would free the wagon to be marshalled at will. Parking the rake at the bottom ready for the lift up would just mean ensuring the wagon was positioned over the slot so when the cable direction was reversed the hook then engaged and automatically lifted the wagons up the incline. I thought the hook could engage the axle. This would mean that you could line up the wagon by using the axlebox as a reference point when parking the rake at the bottom of the hill. Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium figworthy Posted June 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2013 Well this is how to re-rail your brake van on this line http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndustrialRailwaySociety/photos/album/371694763/pic/248667761/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc see last photo. You appear to need to have a Yahoo account Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hi Happy Hippo, Method would be suitable as the runner on Clee Hill was always at the bottom of the incline, Industrial Shame that your picture did not show as I have a passing interest as I regularly see Littleton No 5. Thank you chaps. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I've seen the landowner and a site visit will be fine. If anyone else wants to join me and Gordon please let me know and we can work out a date and time to suit. I can pick people up from the station or bus stop if needs be. It will probably be a weekend but I can do some mornings too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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