When a loco goes 'on loan' - the financial impact?

[OnTheBranchline]

I know that I probably won't get an actual answer but I thought I would ask anyway.

 

When a loco goes 'on loan' to another railway (from the NRM or just another railway), roughly how much is the  charge for 'renting' the loco? Are we talking about thousands of pounds, ten of thousands of pounds?

[pheaton]

Depends.....

 

Are we talking loan for a gala or long term loan?

 

Long term loan.....

Railways pay a number of fee's according to the use of a locomotive, for example and bear in mind different railways have different policies....

 

For diesels a mileage fee will be paid per mile could be £2.96 per mile for example or it could be much more

 

For diesels with a steam heat boiler a steaming fee will be paid

 

I haven't yet come across a group that charge "rent" only the fee's mentioned above, but that's not to say they don't exist!

 

Then you get in to the nitty gritty of minimum turns etc.

 

For the duration of the stay the host railway will pay generally for all consumables fuel, oil, etc.

 

For steam locos the mileage fee may be similar, but the steaming fee will generally be a lot higher, again all consumables being paid for.

 

That's a for long term loan for a short term loan like for a gala there will be generally no fee's paid, but the railway requesting the loan would pay for transport to get the loco to and from the railway.

 

Again it varies from railway to railway!

 

Impact to the owning group....

 

1,) your loco might get used a lot less then at its home base leading to loss of mileage/steaming payments

2,) your staff need to travel to the railway to crew/maintain it

3,) the railway requesting your loco might require US axle testing or brake gauge calibration but they would pay for it possible

4,) your staff need to travel to the railway to operate the loco unless you trust the requesting railway!

 

But remember on the above policies and payments differ greatly from railway to railway....how do I know this...ive just signed the contractual running agreement for 45149 and 26043 on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire railway.

[PhilH]

Fees vary from simple swap deals to straight hire which usually work out to hundreds of pounds per day. The real killer is how much it costs to get the things from place to place, whether by road or rail. That's thousands, not hundreds - for a big steam loco plus tender think 10+k by road.

[PLD]

I know that I probably won't get an actual answer but I thought I would ask anyway.

 

When a loco goes 'on loan' to another railway (from the NRM or just another railway), roughly how much is the  charge for 'renting' the loco? Are we talking about thousands of pounds, ten of thousands of pounds?

 

You won't get a simple answer because ther isn't one - almost every deal will be different because there are so many variables involved, the most significant being the type of loco, size of the loco, the length of the loan, and the logistics of moving it (i.e. by road or rail, distance, speacialst handling such as needing a crane to offload etc).

[Gwiwer]

I believe post 2 has covered the ground to the fullest extent possible given that each and every deal will be separately negotiated and with varying fees and charges.  Transport is still one of the largest of the costs involved and remember that's usually a two-way move so might be £10k in both directions.  A move by rail is often not possible because the requested loco is not passed for NR operation or is being moved between locations where at least one has no NR connection.

 

I am intrigued by the "steaming fee" for steam-heat diesels.  Does this apply across the board or only if heat is written in to the hire agreement?  If it isn't requested and no fee is paid then what happens in unexpectedly cold weather?  And why charge the fee at all?  For steam locos the steaming fee relates to the actual operation of the loco but that is not relevant for diesels.  Is it charged against wear and tear on the boiler or special staffing requirements such as the need to provide a second man in the cab?

[woodenhead]

Are there also cases of loans being made in return for restoration/maintenance work?

[Tom Bayford]

A 2-10-0 on 50 Steamings over a year is £30,000 not including transport or anything else just the loco.