Chemin de Fer de la Mure.

[45669]

Evening All,

 

Not sure whether this should be in the Narrow Gauge or French Railways forum.  However, being metre gauge in France, perhaps this is the best place.

 

Sadly, this line is currently closed following a rock fall and there is no news as to when, or even whether, it will re-open.  Fortunately, a friend of mine was able to visit the line before the rock fall and he has put a selection of pictures on Flickr.  This is the first one and clicking on it will enlarge it and take you to the others :

 

CF la Mure sign by TrainsandTravel, on Flickr

 

I'm sure that you will find them of interest.

 

[JeffP]

Lovely shots of a stunning prototype.

 

Doubtless it will reopen. I remember the Chemin de Fer de La Provence metre gauge line getting washed out over a hundred metre stretch in the valley of the River Var. It has since re-opened.

[Andy Hayter]

I wish I shared your optimism Jeff.

The rock fall - someone estimated 30000 tons - is in the most exposed an inaccessible part of the line perched several hundred metres above the reservoir.  Further the remain rock face has been deemed unstable and would require some major stabilisation work.

Connex (who were operating the line) have withdrawn and the departemental council are unwilling to provide any funds.  Without their support the region is unlikely to stump up anything by way of support.

 

What it needs is a very rich benefactor - one who is prepared to become very poor.

[JeffP]

Ah...maybe bad news then.

 

The French government stepped in for CFP...but they are now skint.

[Fat Controller]

Ah...maybe bad news then.

 

The French government stepped in for CFP...but they are now skint.

The CFP did/does have some 'strategic' value, in that it carries quite significant numbers of commuters on the Nice end, as well as some through tourist traffic from Digne to Nice and v/v; the LaMure line lacks this, alas. I never managed to travel on it, despite spending a lot of time in the region; IIRC, the timetable was predicated on you being in LaMure for 08:00, which given the need to traverse the Grenoble rush-hour, would have meant an 06:00 start from Lyon, and 07:00 from Allevard (where Lynne went on a 'cure' for two holidays. We did stop to get diesel at the upper terminus on the way to Italy last year; the town was like a (slightly) sunnier version of Hirwaun, I thought.

[JeffP]

I spent quite some time on the CFP one summer when we camped in the Gorges Du Verdon near to Castellane.

 

I spent a day o the southern end, including touring the shed and small works at Lingostiere, then did the stations in the centre and finally up to the Digne end.

Lots of interesting infrastructure, and some very interesting locos at that time...sadly most have now gone.

 

The journey by CFP from Nice Sud to Lingostiere was amazing. The old station in Nice, now disused, but still standing, even more so.

 

I must pull my photos from that time and try and start a thread with pics.

[45669]

Here are a couple of pictures of the old CFP station in Nice :

 

R14622.  Old Narrow Gauge Chemins de Fer de la Provence station in Nice. October,2004. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

R14623.  The concourse of the old Narrow Gauge Chemins de Fer de la Provence station in Nice. October,2004. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

There are plans to redevelop the area, but renovating the old station and incorporating it into the new development.  Not, unfortunately, as a railway station.

[Andy Hayter]

To the Fat controller

 

Not sure when you were visiting, in all the years I have visited there has been a 14:00 (or similar) train from St Georges with return.  Timetables tended to change a little every year.

The nature of many French preserved lines is that they offer very restricted timetables compared to the UK.  La Mure was one of the more flexible/frequent - at least during the summer months

Edited June 28, 2013 by Andy Hayter

[Fat Controller]

To the Fat controller

 

Not sure when you were visiting, in all the years I have visited there has been a 14:00 (or similar) train from St Georges with return.  Timetables tended to change a little every year.

The nature of many French preserved lines is that they offer very restricted timetables compared to the UK.  La Mure was one of the more flexible/frequent - at least during the summer months

It was probably September, to coincide with my grape-picking obligations.

[Fat Controller]

I spent quite some time on the CFP one summer when we camped in the Gorges Du Verdon near to Castellane.

 

I spent a day o the southern end, including touring the shed and small works at Lingostiere, then did the stations in the centre and finally up to the Digne end.

Lots of interesting infrastructure, and some very interesting locos at that time...sadly most have now gone.

 

The journey by CFP from Nice Sud to Lingostiere was amazing. The old station in Nice, now disused, but still standing, even more so.

 

I must pull my photos from that time and try and start a thread with pics.

Our experiences were pretty memorable; aioli sandwiches on the platform at Nice, anyone? Most memorable was riding on the front row of seats in the railcar going back in the evening; the driver turned round, proferred his bottle of Chateau Inbuvable, and asked if we'd like a go at driving...

[Pacific231G]

Here are a couple of pictures of the old CFP station in Nice :

 

R14622.  Old Narrow Gauge Chemins de Fer de la Provence station in Nice. October,2004. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

R14623.  The concourse of the old Narrow Gauge Chemins de Fer de la Provence station in Nice. October,2004. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

There are plans to redevelop the area, but renovating the old station and incorporating it into the new development.  Not, unfortunately, as a railway station.

There was some kind of political scandal about the planned redevelopment of the old CP station site that had led to the railway being cut back to its present terminus on the site of the old loco depot. I think this involved the Mayor (who ended up in prison for corruption though not necessarily for this affair) . I arrived there on a train from Digne in the mid 70s while on a France Vacance trip in February and though underused it was a magificent station- a real traditional "Embarcadere" with an arrival and a departure platform facing one another from opposite sides of an elegant train shed with storage sidings between them. Now that the tram line runs in front of the old facade it seems absurd that users of the CP - including many commuters- have to weave through a large car park and across a busy main road to reach the current station. I thought though that plans for the redevelopment did include some kind ot rail usage. 

[Fat Controller]

There was some kind of political scandal about the planned redevelopment of the old CP station site that had led to the railway being cut back to its present terminus on the site of the old loco depot. I think this involved the Mayor (who ended up in prison for corruption though not necessarily for this affair) . I arrived there on a train from Digne in the mid 70s while on a France Vacance trip in February and though underused it was a magificent station- a real traditional "Embarcadere" with an arrival and a departure platform facing one another from opposite sides of an elegant train shed with storage sidings between them. Now that the tram line runs in front of the old facade it seems absurd that users of the CP - including many commuters- have to weave through a large car park and across a busy main road to reach the current station. I thought though that plans for the redevelopment did include some kind ot rail usage. 

Someone once asked me what Nice was like- 'Bournemouth with Mafia' was my reply. The city was the fiefdom of Jacques Medecin for many years; this obituary from the Independent will give some idea of his character:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/obituary-jacques-medecin-1186011.html Somehow, I suspect things haven't got better since his demise.

[JeffP]

Whenever I've visited Nice, it has always seemed to me to be a strange place with a THIN layer of gentility covering what is actually quite a rough place.

[Fat Controller]

Whenever I've visited Nice, it has always seemed to me to be a strange place with a THIN layer of gentility covering what is actually quite a rough place.

'Fur coat, no knickers, and a stiletto'

[The Stationmaster]

'Fur coat, no knickers, and a stiletto'

And a fantastic pizza van which serves the best thin base pizzas I've ever come across and just around the corner from an excellent patisserie - the thing is that they were well back from the sea a 'bus ride up the hill in an area where the nice locals live and where we spent a very pleasant week or so in a flat borrowed from a friend back in 2000.

[45669]

John Cosford has now put some pictures of the Chemin de Fer de la Provence station in Nice on Flickr.  They were taken in 1982 when the station was still in daily use.  Here's the first one and clicking on it will enlarge it and take you to the others :

 

Nice Sud station façade by TrainsandTravel, on Flickr

 

(This thread now seems to be more about the CP than the la Mure line!  Is it possible to change the title?)

 

[Andy Hayter]

Returning to the topic and having lambasted the general council of Isere, I now have to eat humble pie, since - according to RMF - they are asking for tenders to operate the line from La Mure down to the Grand Balcon, just above the point of the landslide.   Operation would restart in 2015.

[45669]

Returning to the topic and having lambasted the general council of Isere, I now have to eat humble pie, since - according to RMF - they are asking for tenders to operate the line from La Mure down to the Grand Balcon, just above the point of the landslide.   Operation would restart in 2015.

 

Some good news at last!

[roundhouse]

Good to see that some of the line will reopen.

 

Here are a couple of shots taken at the junction with the standard gauge and one part way along the route. All taken in 1989.

 

[Baldwin30762]

Is this line going to be split with operations then?

[Andy Hayter]

Baldwin

I am not entirely sure what you mean in your question. Could you be a little more precise?

[Pacific231G]

Is this line going to be split with operations then?

I doubt very much whether it would be viable to run the line as a separate upper and lower section divided by the rockfall so it sounds like they're planning to just operate the upper section down from La Mure. In theory the money might one day be found to rebuild the damaged viaduct and we can but live in hope but don't hold your breath. Running the full length would need to generate a lot more visitors and I'm not at all sure that it would. The more probable outcome would be for the lower section to just gently decay while various plans are discussed but does anyone familiar with the line know whether the slightly longer section above the breach is more or less spectacular than that below it. Hopefully the rest of the line is too steep and tunnelled to be turned into yet another Voie Verte. Edited October 9, 2014 by Pacific231G

[Andy Hayter]

Yes the line above the rock fall is the more scenic and in addition gives access to the mining museum at La Motte. The lower section is only really of interest close to St George station, where you have the old transhipment equipment and after the first tunnel a very nice view back down onto the station you have just departed from. After that it is a slow climb up through forest until you come to the tunnels immediately before La Balcon - which is here the rock fall occurred.

 

BUT (it's a big one) all of the maintenance facilities are at St George. I suspect also that all of the locomotives and stock are at the wrong side as well.

 

La Mure has/had virtually no facilities outside of the station building itself.

 

If Baldwin did mean separate operations on the upper and lower sections, then I agree that there is no real practical chance of this happening. Although it covers perhaps a third of the length, the stretch from St George to the collapse has no remaining operational halts or stations above St George. The upper section did at least have 2 stations in use below La Mure.

 

As for rebuilding the collapsed section, I doubt it. Expert opinion seems to be that there is a lot more of this cliff waiting to fall, so some very major stabilisation would be required.

 

Since my post about tenders being sought, I have sadly heard no more, and given the difficulties I doubt that the line will reopen - though I do hope to be proven wrong.

[Pacific231G]

Yes the line above the rock fall is the more scenic and in addition gives access to the mining museum at La Motte. The lower section is only really of interest close to St George station, where you have the old transhipment equipment and after the first tunnel a very nice view back down onto the station you have just departed from. After that it is a slow climb up through forest until you come to the tunnels immediately before La Balcon - which is here the rock fall occurred.

 

BUT (it's a big one) all of the maintenance facilities are at St George. I suspect also that all of the locomotives and stock are at the wrong side as well.

 

La Mure has/had virtually no facilities outside of the station building itself.

 

If Baldwin did mean separate operations on the upper and lower sections, then I agree that there is no real practical chance of this happening. Although it covers perhaps a third of the length, the stretch from St George to the collapse has no remaining operational halts or stations above St George. The upper section did at least have 2 stations in use below La Mure.

 

As for rebuilding the collapsed section, I doubt it. Expert opinion seems to be that there is a lot more of this cliff waiting to fall, so some very major stabilisation would be required.

 

Since my post about tenders being sought, I have sadly heard no more, and given the difficulties I doubt that the line will reopen - though I do hope to be proven wrong.

We can but hope. The lack of maintenance facilities at La Mure shouldn't be a show-stopper, that's surely just a matter of building a well equipped shed and a few sidings, and moving the stock by road should be fairly straightforward. There would also presumably be need for a run round at whatever location became the lower terminus. The key though is for any revised operation to be sufficiently attractive to non-enthusiast visitors for them a round trip of about forty minutes each way would probably be as popular (if not more so) as the full two hours plus turn round of the original line. What I don't know is how many visitors are attracted to La Mure and the nearby (?) mining museum without getting there on the train from below.

[Andy Hayter]

http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2010/10/27/le-train-de-la-mure-ne-circule-plus

 

This gives some idea of the issues in reopening the line

 

 

 

The lower image shows the view from the balcon - just right from the view in the le Dauphine picture - which would be the end of the line from La Mure.

 

The upper view is crossing one of the viaducts above the fall