ben pez Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hi all Hopefully this is posted in the right place. Very shortly i plan on building a shelf layout in the loft. Its already boarded out,with a carpet,well insulated as its a room made up from stud partition walls inside the roof. Has two velux roof windows,lights and power up there. Even has a staircase up to it. Its about 13' x 10' square room,and im wanting to build a shelf layout the full radius of the room. The straight sections being just 1 foot wide,obvouisly the 4 corners will have to be wider. Only wanting to run two tracks all the way around. Im planning to build the baseboards in sections,using 2x1pse timber with 9mm ply tops. Anyone got any advice or tips that have done a similar layout themselves? I dont want any legs down to the floor for this layout,was thinking about heavy duty shelf supports fixed to the timber stud partition walls to support the layout. Any advice would be much appreciated. Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Couple of pics of the l Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Couple of pics of the loft Where the small door is to the boiler,i was thinking of either a hinged part or a section that will slide in on drawer runners. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Anyone?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2013 So long as you keep the weight down then there is no reason why the shelf brackets won't work. I would suggest not using the PSE timber, if you can find enough straight bits there is a reasonable likelihood of them warping later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Thanks for your reply Im thinking of making the baseboards from 2x1 frames,that are braced underneath to help stop it warping. With a 9mm plywood top. Gotta lot of work to do here building this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pewky Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Anyone?... Hi, Sorry I will not be able to help. But I am waiting as I am in a process of building one myself. Good luck I will follow this thread closely Luc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 For a board only 1' wide, 2" x 1" framing is possibly overkill. Consider using domestic, plain internal panel doors, slit in half lengthways, mounted with the cut side towards the wall? Another possibility would be rigid insulation board, Knauf Pink is favoured, but others will serve. The traditional grey-painted shelf brackets from B&Q etc. are designed to make the shelf slope slightly backwards to stop stuff rolling off. You would need to choose some packing to make sure the baseboards end up level. The corner areas should allow a minimum of what Hornby, Peco etc. refer to as Second radius (17 1/4"). Much modern stock cannot cope with First radius (14 5/8"), which is a hangover from 1960's train sets. To get a double track circuit the outer track would therefore be Third Radius (19 7/8"). Since this is measured to the centrelines of the track, for practical purposes the corner boards would therefore each be two feet square (with one corner cut off if necessary). Curvature is one of the major compromises we have to deal with, I cannot stress enough that these are minimums, anything larger will look better. Having said all that, you might find looping trains a bit boring after a while, so I would make sure you have a 'development path' in mind to add more interest at a later date. There are plenty on here who will help, advise and generally stick their noses in when the time comes. You have a railway room which is full of potential. Good luck and keep us informed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 Thanks for that 28xx I take on board what your saying. Think your right,the basboards i was planning on building may be overkill. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've been thinking of doing something similar - narrow shelf for a double track run round the railway room to give my locos somewhere to stretch their legs (and make long trains not look too silly...). My thoughts were turning towards using 6" or 9" wide conti-board on simple shelf brackets (no framing). Neither are that expensive, and as it's not intended for anything other than supporting plain track, I don't think the utilitarian look will be too much of a problem. Hadn't realised about the none-level surface of the shelf brackets, but I'm not sure that will be too much of a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinty3f Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've been thinking of doing something similar - narrow shelf for a double track run round the railway room to give my locos somewhere to stretch their legs (and make long trains not look too silly...). My thoughts were turning towards using 6" or 9" wide conti-board on simple shelf brackets (no framing). Neither are that expensive, and as it's not intended for anything other than supporting plain track, I don't think the utilitarian look will be too much of a problem. Hadn't realised about the none-level surface of the shelf brackets, but I'm not sure that will be too much of a problem. Unbraced contiboard will definitely sag between the shelf supports (I found out the hard way) and its hard surface means if you are going to use trackpins you will have to drill holes. I removed mine and replaced it with 12mm ply with another strip of 12mm x 36mm tacked to the front to make rigid. It stayed put for the next 10 years without sagging. hth JD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Thanks for your replies lads Glad i posted now before i started building baseboards with frames. As jinty3f suggested im now thinking of using 12mm ply and just bracing up the front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWallace Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I'm taking a similar approach to this for the "roundy-roundy" aspect of Marshfield - a 1ft wide shelf to carry the loop from the scenics around back to the fiddle yard One option for shelving (although I've not tried it yet) would be to use the IKEA LAK shelves. I planned a small layout in OO to fit on one the other day when I had a few minutes to myself: These are the "floating" shelves so will also hide your brackets, however at around £20 each it's not cheap. My thoughts were that I might be able to somehow remove the bottom of the shelf, wire up the layout and then re-attach the bottom, making it look nice and tidy. Hope that's of some help, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve22 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 On a serious note: some very useful advice here on this thread. On a flippant note: never mind the baseboards, Mr. ben pez, just make us all a loft like that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Thanks lads for the info & help. I,ll check out those ikea shelves,although like you say,not that cheap though. Steve 22....hopefully the loft should look a lot better when a 9f with a coal train is running round it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks for your advice mickey,much appreciated. Im going to use 18mm ply as like you suggest,would need less bracing. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 If the layout is going to be fairly permanent, I would screw a batten into the walls at the baseboard height. Sturdy shelf brackets should work, but there is no reason why you could not put 45-degree struts from the front of the baseboard to the wall (unless the shelf brackets are cheap!) Also, think about putting in some sort of storage units which can support the layout. Make up a set or drawers, which can be handy for storing rolling stock or putting away some tools, paints, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted October 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2013 Appologies for not finding this thread earlier. Any base board will need cross bracing and the deeper the bracing the the stronger it will be rendering any chance of warping to zero. Also the thicker the top the stronger it will be. Construction relies on triangles for strength without them all kinds of sag and torsion will take place under the effects of gravity! Plywood is stronger than MDF and lighter it might be more economical to get a sheet ripped into 2inch wide lengths at your local wood yard. I can professionally not recommend using the bracket idea,when after all 6 legs in total are enough to support this layout. Access to a cross cut saw would make life easier by far. Any questions please don't hesitate to PM me. Regards Shaun. Edit: Have had a second look at your pictures and couldn't help noticing that your roof has a shallow pitch which will make working on this prodject difficult to say the least. Is this why you plan on building in sections? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Thanks for your advice lads. Still mulling over exactly how to start building. Sasquatch....yeah,as youve seen because of the pitch of the roof id rather build the boards in sections. Was alsothinking,as being kindly suggested,of fixing a 3x2 timber battern around the room and working from that. Months ago i bought a few adjustable feet for screwing to the bottom of legs,as ive been planning this for a while in my head! So maybe having legs on it is the way to go. Many thanks for everyones help. Please feel free to post with any pics/advice. Soon as ive finished landscaping our garden,this project is next! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Hi Ben Just stumble apon this thread. I have just started a layout and didn't want any legs so have braced it against the wall. Mine is two foot wide so the "support frame" I have used (C16 studworking timber) will be completely over the top for you, but the basic idea would work. Loads of photos here in post #3 onwards. I used 9mm ply - get the DIY shop to cut it to width, saves so much time. I also used 2"x1" as the board frame - mainly because this was cheaper than any other sized timber (presumable becuase it is so popular). Hope this helps. Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted October 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2013 Firstly, I have learned the hard way to keep everything simple, and that includes the baseboard construction. Complex joints are not necessarily good joints. Also I have a strong aversion to the modeller's habit of putting nails or screws into the end-grain of PSE. Certainly, professional cabinetmakers do not use this practice. Plywood, pins and glue were good enough for the load-bearing structure of the Mosquito; who am I to try and improve. I chose a standard open frame module 1200mm x 600mm made entirely of exterior grade 9mm birch ply, machine sawn into 100mm strips. The ends and sides were glued and pinned as L-girders, the intermediate cross pieces glued and pinned as T- girders. No lightening holes were necessary, and the rigid corner joints do not require diagonal bracing. Indeed, the pins are only there to hold things in place untill the glue cures Better still, forget the pins and use patients and clamps! The battern arround the wall will make life easy thats how we hang wall cabinets in kitchens (ever tried holding up a double wide cabinet with one hand and a screw gun in the other, theres no hope of getting it level!!) Also if you make those batterns the same thickness as the board side rails some good old fasioned screwed on twist catches fixed to the batterns will hold the baseboards in place. Keeping things simple is sure the way to go!! Like the way I use shims to level the layout, much less work, quicker when setting up and about 100th the cost! Regards Shaun (profesional cabinet maker BTW) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted October 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2013 Always wanted to do a blog on base board construction, trouble is my layouts are in storage at the moment but I'll try to get this done in the next two weeks as I,ve no work lined up. Blog updated! 3 Oct2013. See link below. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Many thanks for the advice and photos lads Really is appreciated. Some very nice woodwork there peter! Thanks again chaps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted October 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2013 That sounds like a very good idea to me Have made the first blog on baseboard construction. There will be about 4 in all. 2 simple for beginers and then progressing. I have seen some very over elaborate baseboards around and am attempting to show how simple it need be. One chap said he couldn't wait to see my layout at a show one year and was very disapointed not to find french polished mahogany. What was he thinking, that I'd waste all my time and money doing what I do all year when there are 100s of kits to build and trains to run. Hope you enjoy the Blog. Regards Shaun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben pez Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Finally started today! Only put a couple of hours in,but its a start. Ran the first battern all the way around the room. Just one question please chaps,i know im thinking ahead here,but what size/gauge wiring would i need for droppers & bus bars? And wheres the best place to buy? Couple of pics from today Not much to look at i know! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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