DCC sound decoders for US diesels

[Gary H]

I recently aquired an second hand Athearn Genesis F2.

I seem unable to get this loco to start at a very low speed. It has an MRC pre-fitted sound decoder. It does not seem to respond

to resetting CV2 to ANY value, and setting CV125 (restore factory defaults) has no effects either. Nor does the changing CV63 value have any effect

on the noise level of the loco.

From the comments  above it seems that MRC  is a bit of a dud and is non-compliant in respect of DCC standards. Am I better off ditching this decoder?

It depends. If you are as fussy as me, you'll throw it in the nettles!

MRC are not all that NMRA compliant and as you've found they are practically impossible to fine tune them to get decent slow speed control and motor performance.

There's a lot of CV's on MRC's that cannot be adjusted- its nothing you are doing wrong, just the nature of the beast I'm afraid!

I've only ever had one MRC sound decoder and that was in a Genesis SD60 when they first came out, I was less than impressed with it and sold it on soon afterwards,

but you gota try these things!

Edited March 31, 2015 by Gary H

[torikoos]

Hello Paul, nice to see you here too. :-) I'll repost my answer that I gave on the DCC forum here, and elaborate a little.

 

 you'd be better of 'living' with the MRC decoder while you save up for a replacement. 

You are spoiled for choice, with TCS, Soundtraxx and ESU Loksound all offering sound decoders with excellent motor control and authentic 567 diesel sounds.

 

I haven't tried TCS (heard one on youtube and sounds great), but from the other two I can give my preference for ESU (while programming might seem confusing, the auto tune for speed performance is very useful and often spot on), while the Soundtraxx decoder can also give similar performance, but might test your patience a little in trial and error before you get it right.

You may have read about the 'weak horn' complaint of Soundtraxx.  While it is certainly true that they are weak in comparison to the newest ESU and TCS releases, as well as the QSI decoders, they can be improved with some tweaking. The Soundtraxx actually offer a few functions not available on other brands, being an equalizer and separate reverb controls.  Adding Reverb to the horn, and adjust the volume mix a little to let the Horn stand out from the prime mover (and don't forget to reduce the bell right down as it is a sound very easily amplified by the tiny speakers and is often over emphasised (that's for most decoders btw)) will go a long way to improve that, so don't discount them completely.  

Listen to a few (there's plenty on youtube to get a rough idea), and make your choice.  

 

Koos

[paulbb]

Many thanks for your advice Garyh and Koo. I have advised the vendor (Rails) in future to display clearly what sound decoders

are fitted to their HO US stock. In fairness they did offer to let me send it back, and I may yet consider this-though I do want an RI F2 and there

is no guarrantee that Athearn will do another run in this paint sceme. US manufacurers have been doing limited batch production for some time now.

[Scottish Modeller]

I recently aquired an second hand Athearn Genesis F2.

I seem unable to get this loco to start at a very low speed. It has an MRC pre-fitted sound decoder. It does not seem to respond

to resetting CV2 to ANY value, and setting CV125 (restore factory defaults) has no effects either. Nor does the changing CV63 value have any effect

on the noise level of the loco.

From the comments  above it seems that MRC  is a bit of a dud and is non-compliant in respect of DCC standards. Am I better off ditching this decoder?

Hi Paul,

 

I also fell foul of the MRC decoders and the programability - or lack of it...

 

I was not able to sort out the sound using the Lenz 100 set programming track.

 

However - I have DecoderPro and Sprog - so I was able to make some improvements as this enabled me to see exactly what CV's could not and could be changed.

 

But - once bitten....

 

No more MRC decoders for me!

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

I've not had the misfortune of encountering a model with an MRC in it, but have heard enough horror stories not to try it. The only time I would do so is when I might get a model equipped with one second hand, when the price is right. I much prefer DCC ready models, and install a decoder of choice, depending on the available sounds for a particular model, and the space available inside.  

The way Loksound is going, I have to say that most of the time I end up ordering one of them, particularly for Atlas and Athearn engines, where the 'Loksound Select Direct' is a reasonable fit out of the box, minimizing modifications etc to get it installed.

I do tend to experiment with other, non DCC ready purchases.  I recently got an older Proto2000 SD9 (pre Walthers era), and for that one, I'm going to try out the new TCS Wowsound decoder.  

[Allegheny1600]

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the interesting comments on here, I've learned much.

When I started with DCC sound, it was a Broadway C&O T1 2-10-4 (QSI) back some ten years ago and I think it still sounds quite okay now. However, I think that the QSI diesels are only "okay-ish" if they are EMD machines, never had a great GE or Alco from them. I've had and sold quite a few Atlas/Broadway/P2K locos fitted with QSI, probably 20 in total.

A friend had an Athearn Genesis UP FEF and it sounded truly AWFUL!! So I've never touched them.

Had one Tsunami in a Bowser C628 and that sounded pretty good and after some fiddling I got it to run quite well.

I still have a Kato factory fitted sound SD-38 which doesn't sound that good, maybe okay for a turbo'd machine, not for de-turbo'd I'm quite sure.

I still have two out of three ESU fitted locos and they sound good or great, latest factory fitted S2 is absolutely excellent and highly recommended for engine sound, horn and controllability.

So for me, I am a big ESU fan indeed (must have about 30 Euro locos so fitted!).

However, how does the newish Bachmann cheapo sound compare, please? I've not heard much either way and if it was poor, I'm sure I would.

Sorry for the ramblings,

John E.

[torikoos]

Hi John, are you referring to the Bachmann 'Soundvalue' equipped locomotives? they are basically stripped down Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders, lacking some of the flexibility of the 'full' decoder, but otherwise use the same sound files. Here's a link:  http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/Bachmann/Bachmann.php  and scroll down to see what the 'soundvalue' decoders offer.

Edited April 7, 2015 by torikoos

[jaym481]

I have an Intermountain F7 A and B set, and intend to convert them to DCC. They are DCC ready (8 or 9 pin sockets on the light board), but I'm wondering of the best choice would be the ESU Select Direct board, a Tsunami IM1000 board or a plug in decoder and retain the stock board. I spoke with Kevin at Coastal DCC and he admitted they don't have any experience with Intermountain, so he suggested a plug-in ESU Select. I'm just wondering if the Select Direct is an easy drop-in, as swapping the whole board seems a cleaner solution to me. If anyone has experience with a Select Direct into an Intermountain loco I'd appreciate the input. 

[torikoos]

I haven't installed anything in an Intermountain, but if the board is relatively similar to an Athearn or Atlas board, I'd say it would fit reasonably, certainly won't take up more space in that case.

I did find (in the case of an Athearn SW1500), that the Loksound mounting screw holes did not line up with the frame, so I used insulating (kapton) tape to insulate the frame and taped the decoder in position, a similar solution may apply to Intermountain.

The decoder does fit very well on other (athearn) that I've used it, so it seems to vary. (the SW1500 is a bit of a hybrid anyway, part RTR, part Genesis, due to it's limited space under the hood).

 

Koos

Edited April 22, 2015 by torikoos

[Scottish Modeller]

I have an Intermountain F7 A and B set, and intend to convert them to DCC. They are DCC ready (8 or 9 pin sockets on the light board), but I'm wondering of the best choice would be the ESU Select Direct board, a Tsunami IM1000 board or a plug in decoder and retain the stock board. I spoke with Kevin at Coastal DCC and he admitted they don't have any experience with Intermountain, so he suggested a plug-in ESU Select. I'm just wondering if the Select Direct is an easy drop-in, as swapping the whole board seems a cleaner solution to me. If anyone has experience with a Select Direct into an Intermountain loco I'd appreciate the input. 

Hi Jay,

 

The ESU Select Direct is a straight replacement - you need to make sure that you put it in the right way - there are a couple of capacitors that are rather prominent on them and get in the way!

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

Ok, a little (?) feedback on the WOWsound decoders by TCS.

 

I recently completed a Lifelike SD9, in which I installed such decoder (bought mine from Coastal DCC), my version had keep alive attached, as a longer loco like this has more space.

The irony is that small locos benefit the most of it, but they haven't got the space, but that's life..

 

Back to the Wowsound. After installation, I did my usual thing, set the loco on a programming track and fired up Decoder pro, to do some of the set up.  It turns out that is not the best thing to do, as the decoder definitions available are not yet completely bug free, and struggle a bit with all the indexed CV's that this (and other) decoders use. 

I ended up messing the decoder up a bit and it didn't respond as I wanted it to, so I performed a factory reset. I then used my DCC system (Lenz) in programming track mode and programmed the basic settings in the loco, such as it's address. 

 

I then proceeded to try and set up the rest using the audio assist function.  I have to say, listen carefully and it all makes sense. It is very, very easy to do and very powerful.

Using this, I was able to assign the desired combination of function button, output wire, lighting effect , and conditions (fwd, rev, both directions active) etc.

I then followed the instructions to calibrate the locomotive for prototype operations. This is an easy two step process too.

 

The powerful thing is that you can toggle the function buttons to perform different tasks, they are divided in light mode and sound mode. 

Lets say the decoder is in light mode, pressing F2 would activate a roof beacon if that's what you have programmed it to do.  A double press on F8 will toggle it to sound mode, and then F2 will operate the bell for example.   (The toggling does default give you audible feedback on which mode you select, but turns out this can be disabled, and I prefer that. Leaving this on initially, is probably good until you get used to the way it works). 

This is useful for throttles that have a limited amount of function buttons available, and/or saves you trying to scroll down to higher number functions.

 

In prototype mode, the loco behaves more like the real thing. Leaving the controls in light mode therefore will mean that when you increase the throttle , nothing happens..

Why not?  That's because you haven't released the brakes, and they are tied in with a sound effect, which in turn is in sound mode..

 

So switch to sound mode, press F6, hear the brake release hiss and presto the engine revs up and smoothly departs to the speed you have set. The Engine Notches will respond to the load, so a light engine, will not rev up as high and as long as when it is trying to move a long heavy train. Very nice!

 

The sound files in the decoder are of very good quality, and at least on a par with the newest loksound files. Very clear, very realistic. 

 

Is there something negative to report? Depends.

 

I am not a fan of 'directional lighting'.  I want independent control of my lights. (when switching in the yard, I want both lights to be able to turn on, no matter which direction I travel). With the exception of the white and yellow output wires , all is free programmable, but these are default set for front and rear lights, which are activated by pressing F0. 

However there is a work around. I connected my headlight to the white wire , activated by F0, but was able to set that effect for 'BOTH directions'.  I then did not use the yellow output (as it would have worked at the same time as far as I can figure out at this time), so I used the next (GREEN) wire for the rear light. I gave that the constant bright light effect too, for both directions, and assigned to F1, with F2 assigned to purple for my roof beacon.  

It means that I've lost one output wire, but with the decoder having 6 function output wires, I don't miss it, I still have spare capacity. 

 

 

What remains to be seen is how well I would be able to speed match this loco through it's speed range with other decoders, but that would also mean switching it to 'traditional' throttle mode, which makes the decoder respond like any other decoder, turn up the throttle, the loco moves, turn it down it stops. 

In prototype mode, as mentioned above, it works like the real thing, with throttle (engine notches depending on load) doing the speed, but only when the brakes are released. Switching the throttle to 0 means the loco keeps on going, very slowly losing speed, but it doesn't really begin to decellerate until you apply brakes, and how much brake force you apply. One press is 20% braking, and subsequent presses increases it by 20% until it comes to a hold.

Dynamic brakes (if the loco has these set up, on by default) also work, the engine can be heard reving up, as is the dynamic brake fan, and the engine slows down too. But be careful. Releasing it without turning the throttle down means the engine will speed up again.

 

All in all, it brings a new dimension to operating your loco, and one I wholeheartedly recommend you try out for at least one of your locomotives. 

 

Koos

Edited May 26, 2015 by torikoos

[F-UnitMad]

I've ordered a TCS Wowsound EMD (also from Coastal DCC!!) & should get it this week. Not sure I'll try the "prototype mode", but with 3 generations of EMD engines on file, including Turbo versions, it seems like an ideal decoder for my fleet. I'm hoping that with the Keep Alive it won't "drop out" like the Tsunami, which seems very prone to this.

[mikjd]

I've ordered a TCS Wowsound EMD (also from Coastal DCC!!) & should get it this week. Not sure I'll try the "prototype mode", but with 3 generations of EMD engines on file, including Turbo versions, it seems like an ideal decoder for my fleet. I'm hoping that with the Keep Alive it won't "drop out" like the Tsunami, which seems very prone to this.

 

Let us know how you get on with it please, as I now need a few more decoders .......

 

Mick.

[torikoos]

The keep alive in my HO locomotive keeps going for about 5 seconds so I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

 

I'd suggest to take your time, download the Wow sound manuals (the comprehensive ones) , and also have a look at the online programming tool for CV214 , 215 etc (special options).  (don't confuse it with the one for the steam version as it's slightly different). 

As said, set up your address and perhaps a few other basic settings such as consisting if you use it, and then you'll be able to do the rest via audio assist.  

Take your time, listen carefully, and then follow the instructions to what it tells you.  The flow chart helps too that comes with the decoder.

 

Koos

[PhilH]

Hi John, are you referring to the Bachmann 'Soundvalue' equipped locomotives? they are basically stripped down Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders, lacking some of the flexibility of the 'full' decoder, but otherwise use the same sound files. Here's a link:  http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/Bachmann/Bachmann.php  and scroll down to see what the 'soundvalue' decoders offer.

 

Do you know of any UK stockists of these please?

[Gary H]

Do you know of any UK stockists of these please?

Phil, I've a sneaking suspicion that the "sound value" versions are only factory fit decoders and are not supplied separately like a Tsunami.

Willing to be proved wrong though!

Ive just installed a Loksound V4 into an Alco RS3.

I was very surprised to find that the sound was much better from a "Sugar Cube" speaker from Zimo rather than my usual rectangular bass reflex (so called) from DCC supplies.

The sugar cube which is so much smaller sounds much better.

Very pleased with the sound from the Lok V4.

Next, Il have to try a Wow Sound.

[torikoos]

Indeed Gary, you're correct, the sound value version is a decoder only available factory fitted to the models, you can't (yet) get it separately.  

Sugar cubes are great, as I've found too, in combination with a wow sound. I'm currently working on a GP9 in which I'm also installing a Loksound V4 decoder, and will combine it with a sugar cube speaker.

I'm curious to compare this loco's sound with that of another GP9 also fitted with a loksound, but with the factory supplied speaker. 

[torikoos]

Do you know of any UK stockists of these please?

 

Phil, I guess you're looking for a relatively 'cheap' decoder.  For what type and brand locomotive are you looking, and how handy are you with electronics? (are you comfortable soldering wires and replacing a stock circuit board with a sound decoder replacement for example) or are you looking for 'plug and play' ?  Also what are you looking for in the decoder. Is sound, functions, or motor control more important?

 

If you let us know your requirements, we may be able to suggest a decoder type(s) that may suit your needs.  

 

Koos

[PhilH]

Hi Koos

I'm slowly constructing a not very good generic urban switching layout loosely based around the transition era, location somewhere where the locos I have bought might have been seen together.(yeh right).

 

I have a few ready fitted with QSI sound, have a couple of good (Tsunami) decoders ready to fit and some not so good (Digitrax SDXH166D and SDH164D)..these will probably go into the steam locos, although, being a steam loco driver I'm not convinced by sound in steam locos. So they might go on ebay.

 

I want good motor control, slow speed especially, good sound would be a bonus but I've never heard many of the locos I have in real life so don't really know the difference. Basic functions are fine.

 

I am ok with fitting them, if not I know a man who can (thanks Dave)...the main locos I have left to fit are F7, RS3, GP20 and BL2, all early incarnations (I know the Geep is a bit late but I like them..Rule 1)

 

Cheers.

Edited June 3, 2015 by PhilH

[torikoos]

OK thanks Phil, 

 

Not knowing which Tsunami's you have (diesel or steam), I would probably suggest to use Loksound Select decoders for diesels (and have the supplier pre-load them for you with the soundfile you want (Coastal DCC can do that for you amongst others, and is also one of the cheaper suppliers in the UK).  as they sound great, and have excellent slow speed performance. They also have an auto tune feature that will calibrate the motor automatically, and usually no further tweaking needed.    (Set CV53 to 0 , then return to ops mode and press F1, the loco will run about 3 to 4 feet and calibrate itself, done, as easy as that.). 

Of course the new Wowsound decoders are great too, but depending on space in the loco, may need a little more installation space as they are not yet available as drop in replacements, so you need to plug them in onto an existing board, or hardwire everything. (they are also available with keep alive capacitors attached for which you'd need additional space). 

With a good mechanism, their back EMF (BEMF) is very good and requires no set up. Add some momentum via CV3 and 4 and they will operate smoothly.

 

Tsunami's can be very good too, but may require a little more tweaking with CV's.  If you have decoder pro, this will be easier. The horns are usually a little 'lack lustre' on them, but they do have a build in reverb section so you can add some 'air' or 'echo' to make them sound a little livelier.  Slow speed performance is also possible to achieve with Tsunami's but be prepared to spend some time on that. 

 

Here's a method to calibrate Tsunami's low speed performance, by Brian Moore, who's method seems to work for me in most cases too.

Start with everything set at factory default and no momentum (CV3 and CV4 at 0) , and input 50 into CV209. Then, put 1 into CV210. 

Set the loco to travel at speed step one (using a 28-step speed input), and then increase the value of 210 until it runs smoothly. You may also consider reducing CV209 after that, to get it crawling along, without hesitation. After you're happy, you can then install any custom speed-curve using CV25 and CV29.

Note that, for getting the best results from a Tsunami (or any other sound decoder), some "delay" via CV3 and CV4 is required. This will also assist with smooth starts and stops. My usual values are CV3, 50-80, CV4, 30-50.

Depending on the make and model of locomotive, these two CV values should be tested in various combinations until satisfaction is attained. Note that each individual locomotive should be tested; don't assume that if one set of CV settings works in one loco, an "identical" one will perform in the same way.

 

To show you what is possible with a Tsunami after some patience, have a look at this, and forward to 3:00 for the starting and stopping performance.  

[F-UnitMad]

Well I finally managed to do a quick rough'n'ready install of my Wowsound decoder into my AtlasO twin-motor GP35.

 

"Wow" is just about what I said when it fired up!! Very impressed - it'll need some tweaks to run really smoothly (both motors wired in series), I have to set the right engine sound (567 Turbo) and horn, etc, but the default horn is good and loud, on a par with my QSI decoder for sure, and even after a lot of tweaking of my two Tsunamis, they still sound really quite feeble next to the Wow & QSI. I have bought my last Tsunami, for sure.

Now printed off the TCS Programming Guide (the leaflet actually included with the decoder is a bit basic) and off to read & digest....

[TTDB]

Hi, Ive just purchased a Walthers/Life Like SD45 and want to add a sound decoder, Ive done a brief Ebay search and only seem to find fitments for Kato and Athearn locos. any help here please?

 

Also Im pretty new to DCC I did have a Lenz compact about 12 years ago and lost it in three house moves, will any decoder work with any system so far ive got an MTH (in house decoder an sound) SD70ace and a Walthers SD45 fitted with a TCS A6X decoder.

 

Thanks

[Gary H]

Hi, Ive just purchased a Walthers/Life Like SD45 and want to add a sound decoder, Ive done a brief Ebay search and only seem to find fitments for Kato and Athearn locos. any help here please?

 

Also Im pretty new to DCC I did have a Lenz compact about 12 years ago and lost it in three house moves, will any decoder work with any system so far ive got an MTH (in house decoder an sound) SD70ace and a Walthers SD45 fitted with a TCS A6X decoder.

 

Thanks

Is this a new Walthers Proto 2000 SD45? I'm not familiar with new Walthers Proto 2K models but I do own a couple of older P2K, namely an SD45 and an SD50.

Both of them are extremely heavy models and in common with other P2K loco's like the GP9's I also have, the shells are literally full of die cast weight.

Given this, they prove a little more tricky to install a speaker into as there is no room unless some of the frame weight is removed.

The only P2K loco I've fitted sound to myself was a GP20. I had to remove a chunk of the frame weight to accommodate the speaker. Managed it with a hacksaw after stripping the whole model down.

I have found that Athearn,  and Atlas are abit easier in this respect in that there is normally always / most of the time some room to accommodate a speaker of some sort.

Infact Ive just finished an Athearn RS3, I had to remove the cab floor to fit the Loksound decoder but the speaker went in without touching the frame!

I would suggest in your case with the Walthers SD45 that you give a Zimo Sugar cube speaker a look. For years I used a "bass reflex" rectangular speaker and have now found with massive surprise that a sugar cube sounds much better than the BF speaker I've used in the past. You'll also find that you wont need to modify the frame weight to much to allow it to fit in an SD45 due to its small size. Depending on what sound decoder you go for, keep and eye on the Ohm rating of the speaker, ie, don't use a 100 Ohm speaker on a Loksound V4. You need a 4 or 8 Ohm. As regards decoders, I would recommend a TCS Wow sound, Loksound V4 and a Soundtraxx Tsunami in that order.

[TTDB]

Thanks Gary, the loco is a Walthers not Life Like . I had an old life like SD60 about 13 years ago,,,you needed to so several things just to make it DCC like change the bulbs etc,,havent seen this with the Walthers sheet from the box.

[Scottish Modeller]

Thanks Gary, the loco is a Walthers not Life Like . I had an old life like SD60 about 13 years ago,,,you needed to so several things just to make it DCC like change the bulbs etc,,havent seen this with the Walthers sheet from the box.

Hi there,

 

There will be 'drop in' sound decoders available for the loco from several makers.

 

I would start with Soundtraxx and check the website for the model listing.

 

Another option would be MRC .....

 

Walthers took over and have now released the Life Like locos with upgrades.

 

Thanks