Steve's Caledonian coaches & wagon work bench

[Londontram]

As if I haven't got enough projects on the go at the moment this is another idea I've been playing around with so thought I would give it a go . I'm building up stock for a 1900s period railway I have planned but due to being in the process of recovering from a series of operations can only model from my bed side so major base board construction is on hold at the moment which is why I keep playing around with projects like this. Being off work for the same reason means funds are tight too so I had the idea of making some 1900 period looking wagons but mounting them on later RTR under frames on which I cut most of the brake detail off and modify to make them look more period with a typical 1890 to 1900 style single shoe braking system. The bodies are made from 2.5 mm planked plasticard and the end plates and hinge strips from very thin brass sheet hand punched to make the rivet pattern and cut into strips as required. so far I've put one together to "test" the theory and see what it turns out like. The most obvious fault is I need to learn to space the rivets better but I think with work its got potential. The wagon in the first two photo's are of a four plank drop side with low curved ends of no particular pattern and in front are some cut parts ready for another four plank wagon but with straight ends and the third photo shows this being put together with the set square being used to keep every thing true. With a lot of wagons coming from my own stock or brought second hand for about 50 p each (5 plank wagons are normally a scale 9 ft wheel base which is about right) with the plasticard and brass strips the total cost is only about £1-50 a wagon. I haven't just cut down the five planks because the have diagonal bracing bars and hinge detail on the body sides which is very hard to remove, if I  can get the quality up on the next one I might try an outside frame box van. now off to pick the brass strips off the side to see if I can do a better job of them

Edited July 18, 2015 by Londontram

[PeterR]

Hi,

 

Nice work; you could simplify thinks by making the strapping from strips of .010 plasticard and then when in position. If doing the inside knees (that are fitted to central side door wagons, with the horizontal part hidden under the floor planks) those are twice thickness and tapered.

 

Back to the exterior strapping, the nuts on the outside were square (bolt heads are inside so as not to damage the load) and can be cut from very fine strips of .010 plasticard with a curved scalpel blade, NOT a straight blade; do the cutting carefully and the can per persuaded to stay on the small sheet (vinyl tile is OK) instead , as some will inevitably do go for a flying lesson never to be seen again!  Don't use too much effort and they stay on the sheet. 

 

Add them using the tip of a liquid cement charged small cheapish brush; made from hair not bristles. The cement by the way is best kept in a small holder to stop it being tipped over etc and the holder can have some holes in a side fitting for your brushes. They will drop down neatly using the transferring cement that holds them when dry.

 

Here is a grabbed photo (on my stairs at 1700hrs today hence, with apologies, the slight fuzziness!) of my glue holder. That is made from a base of hardboard, and piece of ply with a hole cut in it first, to the size of your plastic cement bottle to be a tight fit) then glued onto the hardboard, the (3 hole) brush holder can be some scrap. Ensure it is not in the way of your arms crossing over it and knocking it sideways when (of course) there is no lid on the glue!

 

The little squares are about 20 thou on each side from the .010 strip; it is best about 1.5 inches long, for handling; I cut about 10 - 15 at one time then transfer them (to stock or the wagon) keep the squares in a closed container till ready for use - I use an old 35mm film container that is translucent.

 

Yours Peter.

Edited November 2, 2013 by PeterR

[uax6]

They look pretty good! I've quite a long list of wagons I need to make (Not unsurprisingly with so little pre-grouping scottish stuff being available), and I have diagrams for a fair few of them, so give me a shout if you want them (they cover most Pre-grouping railway compainies in one way or another!) and I'll email them over (specify which compaines you want mind!).

 

I have also got some old cast HR wagons, so I may try using them as moulds to resin cast some more.....

 

Andy G

(Mad on casting!)

[Londontram]

I've got some diagrams for the main Caledonian open wagons and vans including brake vans thanks to another member Jim web name "Flubrush" and from searching the web but you never know. It would be nice to have some variety though I don't know how much interchange there was, would you have seen much Highland and other companies stock on the Caledonian at the turn of the 1900s? other than at major interchange points.

    I've tidied up the under frame a bit more (and managed to break off one of the buffers in the process) and will now have ago a making the brake gear, I know Wizard do an etch kit for the brake gear but its only a lever and two brake shoes so should be able to do something. I've also finished putting the second body together and am leaving that for the glue to set and have started cutting the panels out for a van body oh and doing some prep work on some of those coach bodies I was telling you about Andy 

    I've got some I think about 10 thou maybe thicker brass strip so thought of making a master pattern with a line of holes drilled in it that I can over lay onto the brass sheet and punch through to get accurate repeated lines of rivets, other than that I've not done any thing else today (been baby sitting the grand daughter this afternoon - Aaaaah Disney channel overload)

[burgundy]

Rather than using planked plasticard for the sides, so that all the planks look the same, scribe them with a carpenter's gauge. This allows you to represent the correct plank width, as wagon sides often had planks of different widths. Measure all the planks from the bottom so that you do not compound errors in measuring and scribe both sides, so that the plasticard does not go banana shaped (and you get the benefit of interior planking). The spike on the gauge is especially designed for scoring lines but it is worth going over the finished side with glass paper to remove any ridges around the scribe lines (and that will remove the shine from the plasticard), then run a finger nail down the groove to remove any dust etc.  

Hope this helps with the therapy

Best wishes

Eric

[Mrkirtley800]

Hello Londontram. My very best wishes for a good recovery. I also wish you well in the building of wagons of the 1900 period. When our children were young we used to holiday in static caravans, usually in Scotland. When they were all in bed, out came my box of plasticard, scalpels, rulers etc plus drawings of the wagons I wanted. My interest is in the Midland Railway with a bit of the NER circa 1900. Out of something in excess of a hundred scratbuilt wagons a good proportion were built this way in less than ideal conditions.

You have had some very good advice on this topic, which I could not add to. I agree with PeterR that bolt heads can be represented very well by small cubes of plasticard. But don't do what I did. I produced a pile of little cubes only to knock the bottle of solvent over them. I now keep the bottle on a wooden block.

Re the operations, I have had to undergo three ops on my right knee after the first knee replacement went disastrously wrong. Once I got over the initial frustration of not being able to walk as I once did, railway modelling and RMWeb came to my rescue. My recovery, both physical and mental, was aided by building '0' gauge locos for my son.

Good luck in your modelling.

Derek

[Londontram]

Thank you Derek, I think it's the frustration of being so restricted as much as the physical discomfort that gets to me too. I was a long distance lorry driver by trade and after spending the night in a lay by on the A1 jumped out the cab and landed on a bit of old barbed wire buried in the grass, to cut a long story short this led to severe blood poisoning and although I was out of it I was told they had to shock my heart at one stage also an abscess in my left foot which in turn led to two months in hospital 6 operations the first was to remove the sole of my left foot down to the bone from the heal to the toes (at first they wanted to amputate below the knee but decided it as worth a go at saving the foot) and the other five operations were for rebuilding using grafts and the removal of the big toe the skin of which was used to make a new ball of the foot (they had removed the tendons anyway so it was no good) That  was back in July and I'm just starting to hobble round the house to the toilet etc. Just waiting to see if any more follow up operations are needed. Not much fun eh,

       still at least it's got me back into railway modeling after a big gap and like you RMweb and the people on it have been my savoir in this time, I'm still a bit rusty and the hobby has moved on leaps and bounds since I used to model and I find that fifty plus year old hands and eyes don't work as well as twenty year old ones but I'm getting there. i'm not after the sympathy vote I'm to old and salty for that but if my modeling ideas sometimes come across a little naive and innocent please be patent with me and thanks again to all the new friends I'm making on here. Regards Steve

Edited November 3, 2013 by Londontram

[Mrkirtley800]

Hi Steve,

Here are a few piccies to show the nuts/bolt heads produced in wagons PeterR and I described. I had meant to send them with my last reply but being a bit poor on 'putters couldn't get the things to load. Got it now.

They are all 4mm scale and EM gauge.

Derek

[Londontram]

Thank you Derek very impressive and I'll be giving that method a go. I've fallen in love with that little out side frame well tank though. Steve

[Mrkirtley800]

It was started in 1965 finished in about 1985 but using Romford wheels. The correct wheels didn't arrive until about 1996 when I also fitted a Mashima motor and compensation. Runs nicely now. One of 18 scratch built Midland locos, the rest are modified kit built.

Derek

[mikeandnel]

Hello Londontram

Did you read this thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74488-scratch-building-wagons/

 

Best of luck with the wagons

 

Michael dJS

[Londontram]

Yes I had but one reads so much I had forgotten it so thanks for refreshing my memory. Just waiting for the nurse to come and do the dressings at the moment, bless them all there great but very flexible in the times they call and I can't get out all the modeling stuff out until she's been as it takes up room that she needs so bit frustrating. 

[Londontram]

Hi chaps, not done much modeling as I had to go back to hospital last week with a few problems and also managed to pick up a mild strain of the MRSA bug in the process, back home now but I'm still under daily visits from the district nurses, as I said the modeling was the biggest casualty though.

        Done another 4 plank wagon body and this time used 5 thou plasticard for the hinge's and strengthening plates and tidied up the first one as well by changing the brass strips for plasticard with better spaced rivets and also making the brake lever for the single shoe braking system.

         By making a simple plate from a bit of plasticard with a line of carefully drilled holes and punching through these I managed to get a more even and consistent spacing on the rivets this time, will sort out some photo's as soon as I can. 

         As a few of you know I picked up a number of old Hornby clerestory coaches a while ago very cheap second hand from my local model railway shop (I've now got 9 all together) and have started chopping them about to make some 35ft 6 wheel coaches this is giving me some off cuts and bits of body sides left over and was wondering if there was anything I could do with them and looking at some photo's I've had the idea of having a go at one of the Caledonian horse boxes built around the 1890s it's one of the ones with coach style paneling at either end for the grooms compartment and access doors with planked doors in the middle for the horses but could use more photo's, drawings or dimensions (even the wheel base would help) if any one has any - also its livery in Caledonian days. I have a black and white photo in one of my books where its the lead vehicle in a rake of coach which are in Caley colours but the horse box is in an all over single colour any idea what this might be? you can't tell from the photo but its a much lighter shade than the lower "plum" coloured panels of the coaches with it, I'm thinking maybe standard Caley goods van bauxite or possible crimson lake (I believe they were crimson lake in LMS days) the other photo's I have at the moment were all taken in LMS days.

[Londontram]

Here are a few photo's of what I mentioned yesterday the first shows the long single shoe brake handle and the evidence of an abortive paint job that had to be cleaned off (that will teach me to stir the pot better since been done again) the second photo is the second body ready to go on an underframe. 

     I mentioned yesterday that I was cutting some Hornby clerestory coaches down to make four and six wheel coaches this should be in modifying rtr..... sorry, but here are a few photos of a clerestory cut down to make a four wheel coach. As well as cutting and shutting the body the clerestory roof was removed (it still needs vents and lamp holders yet) and the body mounted on an old LMS rtr brake van chassis that's been cut and extended with plasticard. Its not based on any direct prototype more just in the style of the two sections of tube in the last photo representing gas tanks

[Nelson Jackson]

Superb work, I really like the rivets on the wagon and the coach looks brilliant. Well done.

Can't wait to see them finished.

Nelson

[Londontram]

Thank you for your kind words Nelson undeserved I fear as I am just a bodger, here is some thing that you might find interesting its a photo of Loch Tay in Scotland in about 1886 soon after this Caledonian operated line was opened. Now here's a rake I might have a go at one day, look at the third vehicle..... looks in the same style as the brake you built yes. If you blow the photo up they look quite simple - flat sided planked with no tumblehome on four wheeled chassis and outside framing, would make an interesting project I think. Steve 

Edited November 14, 2013 by Londontram

[Nelson Jackson]

"undeserved"

No way! Your work is simply brilliant, a real inspiration to all. Keep at it,

 

That is an interesting photo, with some very interesting wagons there.

The birdcage wagon in the middle does look very interesting indeed are you going to build one?

I've seen a very familiar chassis like that before (Hornby I think?) I'll try and have a look for you.

 

One question, if you don't mind me asking.

The wagon that you've built (couple of photos up). The corner straps/rivets are brass but the others are plastic, how were the plastic ones done?

Many thanks

Nelson

[Londontram]

I'll tell you Nelson but I fear it may have all the purist on this forum swooning and taking to their beds. I made a simple jig of 20 thou plasticard with a line of holes drilled in a straight line this is just held down over a sheet of 5 thou plasticard and a blunt point ie a very slightly filed off nail or something like that is tapped through the hole's making the rivet/bolt head imprint on the 5 thou plasticard, the cutting mat has a slight give in it to let this happen a very light tap is all thats needed otherwise you might punch right through. The plasticard is then just cut in strips to the size you want. I did the end plates in brass the same way, I used brass so it would keep its shape when bent but no doubt plasticard with a slight score on the back would work just the same. Regards Steve

[Nelson Jackson]

That's exactly the same way as I did it, but I never thought of making a jig to keep the rivets straight, simple but brilliant idea.

My rivets are all over the place because I didn't use a jig, but now I know if I make a jig and use it then my results would end up better.

You really do learn something new every day.

Many thanks

Nelson

[Mikkel]

Hi Londontram, am enjoying this thread. In this day of hi-tech computer-aided modelling it's nice to see some good old fashioned scratch-building and kit-bashing with available means. And the 1900s too, couldn't be better. Those long single-shoe brake levers were very characteristic of the period, I think.

 

Sorry to hear about your accident and all that followed, sounds like quite an ordeal.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Mikkel

[Londontram]

Thank you Mikkel though I've got to say The Farthing Layouts have been a great help and inspiration with all your articles on coach and wagon building and like you I just love that 1890s to about 1910 period and plan to focus on the scottish scene mainly the Caledonian (sucker for the blue engines) When I paint the coaches I intend using your flowing paint method as like you say the raised style paneling lends itself to this method. Regards Steve

[Londontram]

Did a bit of painting today the wagon doesn't look to bad a few decals and a bit of weathering and from a distance it might pass off as a cir. 1890s wagon. but the coach - well I was hoping for a Caledonian purple lake but it seems to have dried a very brownish red, nice but not right so will have to have a think on that one (mind you when ever you see other peoples models they always have a more brown hue than say LNWR  coaches) Can any one recommend a good supply of coach roof fittings i.e. vents and lamp holders etc. I also need to do the air brake pipes and safety chains for the buffer beams on the coach and also sort out the couplings for them both, for fixed rakes I was going to go with 3 link (my usual choice) but I'm leaning towards sprat and winkle for vehicles that will be used in shunting and running round I've never used them so would welcome your comments. Here are two photos so let me know what you think.       

[Ben Alder]

S&W's get my vote- esp. if you can make them single ended, with a bar only at one end. The 3mm version is less obtrusive and it is a reliable method, with a degree of latitude in set up that some other options don't have.

[Nelson Jackson]

They look really superb, well done, you work at a much faster pace than I

Can I ask, what paint did you use for the wagon? (It looks like a colour that I could do with)

 

Depending on what roof vents you need, have you seen these? (they might be too modern?)

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3340,3344&CAT_ID=3350&P_ID=17886

[uax6]

Try Wizard for coach fittings, they have a very good selection of casting for a lot of differring companies. I think I used either MR or L&Y torpedos for my Caley coach bodge.

 

I was wondering the other morning (while i was trying to get to sleep) if you could make an auto single link coupler that used the hook, sort of like a rigid 3-link. I think it should be possible, but haven't tried anything out yet.

 

Andy G