Point decodes - where to start?

[TomJ]

Sorry - more questions! After all the help I have had on here I am going to finally take the plunge a convert my small N gauge layout to DCC. I believe Santa is bringing me a NCE Powercab and in anticipation of this I have ordered a few loco decodes to get me started. Ultimately I'm going to rewire and control all the points from the Powercab.

 

There are so many point/accessory decodes avaliable I don't know where to start! As said its N gauge using standard Peco point motors. I have four points on one board and seven on the other. I am new to DCC and want to keep things simple (and not spend too much!) Can anyone recommend a decoder for me?

Many thanks

[RFS]

Just because you are operating the layout via DCC doesn't mean you have to convert the points to DCC operations as well.  You can have them still operated as now and perhaps consider DCC operation later.  Reasonable decoders for Peco solenoids are the Lenz LS150 and the DCC Concepts DCD-ADS2 (2-way) and ADS8 (8-way), all available from Hattons. 

[TomJ]

Thanks - the initial plan is just that, to plug in my new controller and run DCC engines but keep the points as they are. But I do want to change to full DCC as I want to operate the whole layout from one handset.

 

I'll look up those suggestions - thanks

[Phil S]

There are some sublte differences between some types of Accessory Decoder

'Most' are based around 4 output pairs.  Some of these may be used as 8 single on/off controls. Some have 'complex' multiple aspect lights programmable within.

Some are powered and controlled from the DCC bus. Some are optionally powered by AC or DC or the DCC bus (Eg the ESU/Bachmann SwitchPilot)

Some include 'Capacitor discharge Units' aimed at Peco Point motors, whilst some can produce a continuous output (as for Colour Light Signals)

Many Mainland-European Point motors take much lower current than the Peco standard motor, and also include end-off-switching - such that they could be used on any output type (Pulse,CDU or continuous) ... they can therefore operate several points on a single output... but unlikely with the Peco motors - some have a 'special mode' for Peco motors.

Non-CDU types usually have an on-duration programmable from maybe 0.1s to 10s...  '0' or '255' may be continuous ??

 

Lenz's LS150 is a PULSE ONLY output type, with a separate (notionally 16V) ac power input but is unusual in allowing its 6 outputs to have ANY number on each output:  I find this very convenient in optimising wiring - I can number my accessoriies 'logically', but wire to the nearest or most conveneient accessory decoder (avoiding  crossing from 1 board to another).

 

Also, both individual integrated digital motors are available - perhaps too late for your installation, but also single output-pair accessory decoders can be useful where a convenient  group of four, starting at a standard boundary (1-4,5-8 etc) is not available.

 

Also some are programmed by 'CV' ... which often means 'out-of -the layout' programming, but others use a 'learn' button, and respond to the first accessory address sent after the button is pushed.

On the LS150 this even extends to the individual output numbering, and to the duration of each.

 

The ESU/Bachmann SwitchPilot includes Railcom feeback, and can  have 2 servos added to the basic 4, and additional servo/ relay modules.

 

No doubt others can add more options to this list

[Phil Bullock]

Can only comment on what I have used - SMD82, which is now SMD84 I believe

 

Used till now with tortoise and cobalt but have just installed some peco motors to give me snappy movement on the signals

 

So far no problems - has enough clout to switch 2 peco motors at the same time (so home and distant signals on the same post return to on position together)

 

Easy to programme too - outputs are easily configured for either pulse (peco) or continuous (tortoise)

 

Phil
 

[corax67]

I have tried accessory decoders from a variety of manufacturers including ESU, CML, Digitrains, MERG and DCC Concepts - all have their own plus and minus points and none of them what what might be regarded as a dud.

 

My personal preference is for Lenz LA100 & LA110 units - they are not the cheapest units available and they don't have an inbuilt CDU but I run a mix of Tortoise and Seep point motors between my layouts and fiddle yards and I have found they have never ever let me down and are simple to programme so they tick all my requirement boxes.

 

I am sure you will get a lot of different recommendations but I don't think there are any to really avoid.

[broadbent]

I'm no expert. I use a Powercab for my DCC layout, but I control the points using switches on a mimic board, which seems to be more prototypical.

 

I also find that the Powercab is not the easiest method of recalling individual decoders. It's bad enough trying to remember each number.

 

Where I think it would be useful, is controlling a number of points at once, thus setting routes.

[TomJ]

Thanks everyone for the tips and advice - much appreciated. The DCC concepts ones look like they'll do the job at a reasonable price. Just one question - as they contain a CDU does this mean that they could change two Peco points from one output? If so that means I could get away with one twin output to control the four points on one board (a pair of crossovers). As someone who's lived in Yorkshire for 20years I feel I ought to save the money!

[Suzie]

You can save a bit of money by making your own accessory decoders if you are keen, kits are available too.

[Sunnysa]

Thanks everyone for the tips and advice - much appreciated. The DCC concepts ones look like they'll do the job at a reasonable price. Just one question - as they contain a CDU does this mean that they could change two Peco points from one output? If so that means I could get away with one twin output to control the four points on one board (a pair of crossovers). As someone who's lived in Yorkshire for 20years I feel I ought to save the money!

For yrs I have used Lenz Ls150's (op peco point motors) which are very good and reliable but after purchasing and trying the DCCconcepts AD-S8  they will be my accessory decoder of choice in the future.

 

 Yes, the DCCconcepts AD-S8/2 will op two (2) standard Peco point motors in tandem as in X over with no problems.

 

 Cheers

 

  Ian

[Tricky Dicky]

When considering using accessory decoders I think the real issue is what controller you are using and how many button presses it takes to access the required decoder and effect whatever change you want be it a point or signal change. In automated or computer controlled layouts they are a must. As a fellow tyke TomJ I would say think carefully before handing out hard earned beer vouchers for something that could be done more conveniently and cheaper!

 

Richard

[shibushe]

Adding my 2 pence worth. I like things as simple as possible with the minmum amount of wires, and to that end I started using ZTC point motors. Yes they are easy to program & wire, BUT, I did not like the large hole in the baseboard to accomadate them, plus I also did not like the unrealistic operation. Time also proved them to be unreliable.

I now use Traintronics TT300 motors, just two wires, built in decoder, once programed with there address thats it.

You can of course add other operations, adding additional wires for life frogs etc.

I have two aspect colour lights wired in to some motors, So far no problems.

Nice slow acting point movement.

[ColinK]

I have a NCE powercab, but all the points in my terminus are operated by piano wire with frog juicers taking care of frog polarity.

 

However, for the fiddle yard I have 'electrified' the points using Peco motors and Digitrax DS52 decoders. I have then set up macros so macro 1 sets road 1, marco 2 sets road 2 etc.

 

Hopefully this will give the best of both worlds.

[Combe Martin]

Shibushe (post  no 14, 2 above here, sorry windows 8 dosn't allow me to reply using 'quote this post') refers to problems he had with using the ZTC point motor with built in decoder (the ZTC302).  I wonder if this was with the earlier versions.  I use these, but I am using the Mk2 version which has a built in CDU, and I've had no problem at all.  They've proved completely reliable.

 

Like Shibushe, I too didn't like the idea of a hole in the baseboard to mount them directly to a Peco point (in the same way as you might mount a Peco point motor, and I don't do that with them either).  I've mounted mine on the underside of the baseboard, but I made up my own mounting plate from a piece of hardboard with strategic holes cut in the right places. But the important thing is that it has elongated screw holes to allow a degree of positional adjustment, which is something that Peco mounting plates don't have.

 

Yes, they aren't a 'slow motion' point motor, but they do move more quietly and gently than the Peco 'snap'.

 

They attach to the wiring bus with just 2 wires.  If you want frog polarity switching that's just one wire from the 302 to the frog.  There are 2 additional outputs which can be used to light positional LEDs on a control panel,  or to presumably operate associated colour light signals.  They also have contact tabs for attaching wiring to an 'external' operating switch, so if you want a 'local' control panel in addition to DCC operation they can handle that too.

 

And I don't work for ZTC.

[shibushe]

Hi. Coombe Martin. I to made up a mounting board for the ZTC 302. after getting fed up with making large holes.

Only needed a 15 mm hole.

However I still prefer the TT300s. No soldering. No Accessrory decoder. No resistors. No Cdu required.

You mention solder tabs on the ZTC. sorry mate not with my eye sight.

I only have 4 ZTC now in my hiden sidings, only because the noise they make confirms to me the point has changed.

XMAS GREETINGS TO ALL ON  RM WEB.

Note. My layout will only run a Sunday Service on 23rd & 25th December.

[Combe Martin]

Hello Shibushe, My mounting plate has a few more holes.  1 large one for where the point operating rod slides back and forth, 4 small ones for the 4 spikes that are normally for attaching the motor to the point, once pushed through I then just bend the spikes over at a right angle on the back side of the plate to hold the motor to the plate.  Then there's 2 elongated screw slots to allow mounting the plate to the underside of the baseboard with adjustment (because its difficult when working upside down to position it exactly in the right position first time, as it's also difficult to do with Peco mounting plates), and for once it's in the right position, 2 more screw holes to fix it solidly in the right place so it wont gradually move over the years.

 

Ok, I've soldered the power wires to 2 of the spikes (though you could use those screw terminal block in nylon things, cant remember what they're called), but this is easy to do on the bench before fixing it under the baseboard. It dosn't need a separate Accessory Decoder, that's part of it just like the TT300, and the CDU is built in too on the Mk2.  Attaching wires to the solder tabs is purely optional depending upon what else you want to do, and again can be done on the bench first, they are quite big !  My eyesight is rubbish too now. 

 

You mention resistors ?, but I'm not sure what those would be for ?   

[shibushe]

Coombe Martin. They say great minds think alike, and reading your description of the 302 mounting plate it looks exactly like mine.

The only differance I can see is. To make sure the motor sat square to the underside, I glued two 5 mm strips of wood onto the baseplate, if you see what i mean.

As for resitors. As I use 3 of the terminals on the TT300 for colour lights, a resistor is built in.

Normaly you would need a ( I think) 1k resitor. Regards.

[Combe Martin]

Ah ok, well as I model the S&D I don't have any colour light signals.

 

I did forget two things about my baseplate.  Having bent the 302's fixing spikes over onto it's hidden side, then that is an uneven surface to screw against the underside of the baseboard, so I cut a piece of 1/16th cork underlay to match the baseplate and it's holes, plus slots for the bent over spikes to fit into, and glued it to the baseplate.  That way there's a flat surface against the baseboard underside.  Sounds like it achieves the same 'end' as your solution.  Also I countersunk the holes for the fixing spikes to accommodate the solder blob at their base, so that the 302 sits flush against the base plate.    

[shibushe]

I also counter sunk to accomadate the solder blobs, I diid abandon my spacer solutuion.

To make sure the spikes stayed flush, all i did was to cut slots using a hacksaw.

Many ways to skin a cat.