PAL Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm building an L-shaped rural shunting shelf layout, one leg 8ft, the other 9ft , maximum shelf width 18 inches, and I want as reliable point operation as I can get (don't we all?). The thing is, I have no interest in layout electrics and can barely grasp the principles behind it. After a day's internet research on the subject, my mind is reeling and I'm still unclear about the most laughably simple of questions. It's this: can I just operate my Peco Electrofrogs by hand, simply by reaching over and pushing the tiebar to and fro, provided I fit the insulated joiners just beyond the frog as per instructions? Needless to say, this is a DC setup! That said, I'd still be very interested in members' views on what remote mechanical or electrical methods might suit an electrophobe building a layout of this kind of shape and size. One reason is, it will largely take the form of two Iain Rice-style light-boxes ie miniature theatre-type stages enclosed at top and sides with only 10-11 inch front apertures into which to insert a point-changing hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Yes, of course you can - my current single point-er is operated by a cycle spoke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Wire in tube is nice if you want simplicity, but avoiding the 'hand of god' appearing in the layout. If the layout is to have a long life I would recommend hot wiring the movable point blades to keep them live. I have previously used wire in tube, plus micro switches on Beeding Sidings. Rocoline points were used. Here is a double slip in close up, showing the wire poking through the tiebar The wire is bent in a loop, with the end going through the baseboard to the tiebar. I used quite thick wire and thinned the end with a file to go through the tie bar. The micro-switches have an arm making them easier to switch. The tension to hold the points over is solely from the friction of the wire in the tube. The tube is soldered to the brass track pins. The outer end of the wire is looped over to make a handle. It's up to you on how much you wire up. If you have all wheel pick up you might get away without wiring the frogs. My preference is to wire up everything. My latest layout has everything wires and is a bit neater than Beeding Sidings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Another vote for bicycle spokes (and toggle switches if required) as they are cheap, my local cycle shop sells them for around 30p each - I use them mostly for making puppet hand rods. Available in a wide variety of lengths and thicknesses but you will need a good quality side cuter/mini bolt cropper/slitting disc to shorten them as they are tough. Built them into a few boxfile layouts over the years, a couple of which I know are still going strong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Rich Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Bicycle brake cable still in its outer has enough friction in it to aid operation, as well as being flexible for convenient routing anywhere as long as you are not going over board joints. A simple slider mechanism can be made from the internals of a terminal block to terminate the brake cable and attach to simple tie bar dropper slider. The outers of the terminal blocks can then be used as the housing for the slider and microswitch. All fully adjustable, simple and reliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The bike spoke / bowden cable methods mentioned above and variations on that theme are fully suited to the layout type described, avoids the risks of knocking stock and scenic fittings about caused by 'reaching in' to move the tie bar. The natural extension to my mind is to terminate the drive mechanism on a slide switch which can be wired to switch the crossing polarity. A simple hole in the side of the slider knob, bend the end of the spoke through a right angle and engage the end in the hole. For reliability, changing the crossing polarity on a switch will outperform reliance on point blades contacting the stock rail to alter the crossing polarity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 This is how my point operating rod is fitted - there is no reason why a switch cannot be fitted if needed - it can be operated with a further pair of choc bloc connectors attached to the spoke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted March 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2014 adding jumpers from the stock rails to the points then requires separating the frog from the points which usually requires wiring the frog through some sort of switch. Just using the points as they come worked for me for years. I would take for simplicity, if you go for a switched frog, the slide switch and wire/bicycle spoke. My current layout building uses a commercial (North American or Canadian) mechanism that's run by telescoping plastic tubes. I think the tubes are used by aeroplane modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 adding jumpers from the stock rails to the points then requires separating the frog from the points which usually requires wiring the frog through some sort of switch. Just using the points as they come worked for me for years. I would take for simplicity, if you go for a switched frog, the slide switch and wire/bicycle spoke. My current layout building uses a commercial (North American or Canadian) mechanism that's run by telescoping plastic tubes. I think the tubes are used by aeroplane modellers. David, Could you post a couple of pics and source of these please? khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm building an L-shaped rural shunting shelf layout, one leg 8ft, the other 9ft , maximum shelf width 18 inches, and I want as reliable point operation as I can get (don't we all?). The thing is, I have no interest in layout electrics and can barely grasp the principles behind it. After a day's internet research on the subject, my mind is reeling and I'm still unclear about the most laughably simple of questions. It's this: can I just operate my Peco Electrofrogs by hand, simply by reaching over and pushing the tiebar to and fro, provided I fit the insulated joiners just beyond the frog as per instructions? Needless to say, this is a DC setup! That said, I'd still be very interested in members' views on what remote mechanical or electrical methods might suit an electrophobe building a layout of this kind of shape and size. One reason is, it will largely take the form of two Iain Rice-style light-boxes ie miniature theatre-type stages enclosed at top and sides with only 10-11 inch front apertures into which to insert a point-changing hand. I suspect that your real problem is fear of the electrics. Why not join a club or similar & 'bribe' someone to come and help you out? Perhaps a dinner might be a suitable payment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAL Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 My thanks to all contributors, particularly for the photos which make things much clearer than words. I like the push-pull simplicity of spokes and cables. I think a visit to the workshop of our local cycling fanatic is my next move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted March 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2014 If you have any bits of rail left, you can use rail instead of bike spokes. Just solder a bent paperclip to to the end and put that through the point tiebar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Instead of spokes or other metal rods you can use lengths of wooden dowel with a stiff piece of wire stuck in at right angles and going up through the baseboard to work the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47707 Holyrood Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Wire in tube is nice if you want simplicity, but avoiding the 'hand of god' appearing in the layout. If the layout is to have a long life I would recommend hot wiring the movable point blades to keep them live. I have previously used wire in tube, plus micro switches on Beeding Sidings. Rocoline points were used. Here is a double slip in close up, showing the wire poking through the tiebar Beeding Sidings - 3296.JPG Ernie, this may be a long shot but this picture looks very familiar. Did you ever sell the boards with this double slip on Ebay some years back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ernie, this may be a long shot but this picture looks very familiar. Did you ever sell the boards with this double slip on Ebay some years back? That was another layout. Is it still around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted March 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2014 Some photos taken in a hurry. The one device is called the Bluepoint from New Rail Models (www.newrailmodels.com). Available all over North America. The wooden device comes from the Fastracks people and is called the Bullfrog http://www.handlaidtrack.com/BullFrog-Manual-Turnout-Control-s/2087.htm It's a kit, made in Canada. I bought mine at Credit Valley Railway, but you might get a better deal on the Bluepoint from the USA. The tubing shows in the last photo. Mounted under the controls close up units by themselves with control rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47707 Holyrood Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 That was another layout. Is it still around? This one? If so then it still resides in Inverness as i haven't got around to fetching all of my things from my ex yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Some photos taken in a hurry. The one device is called the Bluepoint from New Rail Models (www.newrailmodels.com). Available all over North America. The wooden device comes from the Fastracks people and is called the Bullfrog http://www.handlaidtrack.com/BullFrog-Manual-Turnout-Control-s/2087.htm It's a kit, made in Canada. I bought mine at Credit Valley Railway, but you might get a better deal on the Bluepoint from the USA. The tubing shows in the last photo. Mounted under BP_5756.jpg the controls BP_5757.jpg close up BP_5758.jpg units by themselves with control rod BP_5759.jpg Looks very promising - thanks. Just a word to those of us outside the USA - New Rail Models cannot supply outside the States. You must order through Walthers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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