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'Clayliner' china clay wagons

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Hi

I am hoping to build a rake of the vacuum braked 13t open china clay wagons without 'hoods', which were used on the 'Clayliner' working from Cornwall to the Potteries up to 1982 before the advent of the 'Clay Tiger' PBA air braked wagons. I have a feeling these wagons were a mixed bunch of BR built and pre-nationalisation types and were possibly different from the 'clayhood' type in their dimensions, so I am not sure the available RTR models and kits for clayhoods are a suitable basis.

 

Does anyone know of any available kits which would suitable?

 

Many thanks

James Evans

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The usual source (Paul Bartlett's wagons site) yields hundreds of photos of these types.

 

http://www.gallery6801.fotopic.net/c163789.html

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c163031.html

 

They were all 10' wb fitted 5 plank wooden bodied 'Highs' - for clayliner use, most were fitted with roller bearings which is an essential mod' to otherwise fairly standard vehicles (mostly with Morton brakegear) - Parkside can provide the BR pattern with corrugated ends and an LNER five plank. Ratio a GW five and a half plank (but that will need a thorough rebuild to get that version). There's a start, anyway, I'm sure others will know more!

 

Adam

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They were all 10' wb fitted 5 plank wooden bodied 'Highs' - for clayliner use, most were fitted with roller bearings which is an essential mod' to otherwise fairly standard vehicles (mostly with Morton brakegear) - Parkside can provide the BR pattern with corrugated ends and an LNER five plank. Ratio a GW five and a half plank (but that will need a thorough rebuild to get that version). There's a start, anyway, I'm sure others will know more!

 

 

Only one of the pre-war clasp-braked LNER 5 plankers (a la Parkside) was known to have passed into Clayliner use, although there were probably some of the post-war 5 plankers with RCH brakegear and certainly some of the 6 plankers. The latter would either be a scratchbuild or an extensive conversion from something like a 3H or Cambrian wooden-underframed version.

 

The LMS, SR, MoS (again only one) and BR dia 1/034, 1/042 and 1/045 5-plankers are much of a muchness apart from small details and personally, I would use the 1970s Airfix RTR item (since made by Dapol and now Hornby), although the above mentioned Parkside body is very similar.

 

As well as the roller bearings, I would expect that most if not all wagons would have had BR-pattern axleguards fitted at the same time

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Do I get the prize for resurrecting the oldest thread today? Rather than duplicate subjects, something we seem to do routinely, I found this whilst researching.

I've finally got fed up with my Clayliner rake being based on (incorrect) Bachmann 9' wheelbase clay wagons, and have started to accrue bits and pieces to build a more prototypical rake. But it will take time! I've found Paul Bartlett's Zenfolio site invaluable (as always) and here are the updated links - the ones above are to the defunct fotopic site

Clayliner wagons - ex big four

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/prenatclayliner/h174ee8bd#h1e29495b

 

Clayliner wagons - BR builds

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayliner

 

What a fascinating mix the Clayliner was in the 1970s, ex big four 5 and 6 plank steel framed high wagons and as Ian has mentioned above a lot of different BR diagram wagons 1/034, 1/039, 1/042 and 1/045. There's even a pic of a steel bodied 1/041 in there for added variety. I'd always assumed the whole Clayliner fleet were fitted with roller bearings - not true, many still had oil axle boxes. Does anyone know a good white metal cast for the pattern of roller bearing used? I've checked the MJT site and they're not SKF ones. Rumney models are about to produce the closest I can see that are appropriate. Cambridge custom transfers also do appropriate decals - do they include pool numbers? Sorry for the questions - hoping someone has done the same as I'm planning to do.

 

As always - wish I'd paid more attention forty years ago. The Clayliner, complete with Western, class 46 or the occasional class 47 was part of my daily spotting diet. I hope to do it some justice.

 

Neil

Edited by Downendian
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A more complete (not complete!) list of these wagons is in

 

Larkin, David (2008) Wagons of the final British Railways Era. A pictorial study of the 1962 - 1968 period. Pub by Kestrel Railway books. ISBN 978 0 905505-08-1 viii+88pp

 

on page 7

 

Paul

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Thanks Paul

I do indeed have that book, and will be studying it this evening.

Neil

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I don't think that John Isherwood's transfers will have the Pool numbers and PPM dates, as it's a bit late for the period.

If it would be of use, I have some hand-written notes about bearings fitted, Pool numbers and wagon numbers dating from the mid-1970s.

The situation regarding models is a little better now. Cambrian do, or doing, the ex-SR 5 planker, which was also supplied to the LNER. The LMS one with corrugated ends is still available from Parkside.

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Like Neil we make do with the inaccurate Bachmann offering - 9ft wheelbase and roller bearings but at least they have the w iron bracing tie unlike some other wagons from that stable. Looking at Paul's site the 9ft hoods were mostly oil boxes.

 

Its flat tarps for the clayliner isn't it? We have used wide masking tape for the tarps painted grey - not quite 50 shades but looks effective, and folded up in the bottom of the returning empties. Also comes far enough down side of wagon to obscure most branding....

 

We have changed the coupling on the lead wagon for one with a NEM pocket - the flexibility reduces derailments - and fitted the obligatory tail lamp vac pipe and instanter on the tail vehicle

 

Usually gets appreciative nods at shows....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYg23Rj-Pl4

 

And for gratuitous porn I cant help but put the link to Mike King's photo up again...

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/images/1048.jpg

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The wagon sheets were made of a glossy polythene-type material. Most were grey, but I did see occasional blue ones at Longport; I sometimes helped fold them up after the wagons were unloaded. They used to get stacked on pallets, then loaded into the 12t vans that accompanied them.

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Was the use of vans random Brian?

 

Remember seeing trains with them - but also without!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

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And the empties at Norton Junction behind 47051 - boo hiss!!!

 

post-7138-0-15634100-1472074854_thumb.jpg

 

Hang on - that's a loco with a Stones boiler, been looking for a decent picture of that arrangement .

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For the roller bearings try contacting slimrails. He can supply the roller bearings used on the MDV wagon as a spare.

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Was the use of vans random Brian?

 

Remember seeing trains with them - but also without!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

The vans brought bagged china clay for use by 'studio potteries', schools and colleges; vans weren't always present, as demand for this was variable.

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I don't think that John Isherwood's transfers will have the Pool numbers and PPM dates, as it's a bit late for the period.

If it would be of use, I have some hand-written notes about bearings fitted, Pool numbers and wagon numbers dating from the mid-1970s.

The situation regarding models is a little better now. Cambrian do, or doing, the ex-SR 5 planker, which was also supplied to the LNER. The LMS one with corrugated ends is still available from Parkside.

That would be indeed useful Brian. I've just been looking at the Bachmann 9' WB China clay tipplers yesterday evening, and they do have a representation of the roller bearings used. At a push I could surgically remove their W irons, although I'm sure there is a better alternative than that.

I have several Parkside and Cambrian kits on order, the PC02A will make up to a 1/039 which seems to be the most common wagon in Clayliner rakes. Still no luck with transfers for pool numbers.

Neil

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I found the notebook in which I recorded the numbers; there are fewer than I thought, and less detail than I would have liked. Here goes;-

W144021  'OWV' roller bearings

B495151    oil axle-boxes

E311997   'OWV' roller bearings

B491856    oil axle-boxes

B477069   'OWV' roller bearings, POOL 7401

B743626   'UCV' oil axle-boxes    POOL 7409

B481705   oil axle-boxes, corrugated ends

B485107   oil axle-boxes, corrugated ends

I suspect I must have noted these details down whilst at the end of my stay in Bristol, so 1976 or even '77, as there are other notes concerning tipplers in stone traffic, and one I do remember being at St Andrew's Road (B947946 CONFLAT CLAY- Boplate)

If only I'd used my camera..

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I'm in the process of putting together a small rake of these wagons as I try to re-stock Wheal Elizabeth, initially concentrating on the 1978 to 1982 period.

 

The info on Paul Bartlett's site and various photos in the John Vaughan books suggest that there were a number on BR/LNER 12t Steel Opens used in these rakes.  Were these actually used for carrying clay or were they simply "support" wagons for carrying tarpaulins etc when the clay wagons were empty?  Was this also the role taken by the occasional 12t Van seen in the midst of the Clayliner consist?

 

I'd be interested to hear any thoughts about the workings of these trains as including one or other of these would add a little variety to the consist!

 

Jeremy

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Posted (edited)

Having learnt that the Bachmann UCV's are not the wagon I need to model early 1980's china clay flows from Cornwall to the western highlands, I am seeking information on whether the wagons used on clayliner flows were used on Scottish flows prior to the introduction of the PRA's in 1984. I think they were, however the only photos I have managed to find on line are on Flickr from John Baker's (Spannerman 37025) excellent Scottish themed albums. These look like OWV's to me but the wagons are damaged following a derailment. 

 

 Can someone add any more detail to these workings? Further pictures would also be much appreciated

 

 1538426270_Chinaclaywagons19821.jpg.bf17d0b23bb3a5d1e48ed6ca253f6456.jpg

 

 

Edited by young37215

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The photo shown is of purpose built China Clay wagons as the longitudinal planks on the floor is clearly seen to aid tipping towards the end door.

 

The ones running elsewhere were normal timber bodied highfits.

 

Mark Saunders  

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