Hayfield2 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I thought these may help or inspire someone who has or is thinking of built/building a harbour scene. Quite fancy building one my self but I am not cleaver enough to make plans of my own and these are side on photos without anything to give a clue to sizes. A few designs of both front and rear cabins and I thought ideal for a small quay side diorama, what about for the modular layout idea ? I guess fishing boat designs are easy to come across, then its just about scaling it to what looks about right. Will do a Google on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2014 Harburn Hobbies produce a model almost identical to the boat in your first pic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 What a very apt post. I am currently doing two masters of boats, with more to follow in both 4 and 7mm scale. The first two are a river/canal cruiser, A Banham's of Cambridge high prow jobby that would go from the 30's right through to current times (I saw it 2 weeks ago on our local river). Concurrent with that is a lobster boat based on one I saw recently at Eyemouth harbour. It has a forward wheelhouse and is of a type seen from North to Aldeburgh. Both have white metal and, where suitable, photo-etched details like portholes on the cruiser. The main hulls, floors and bulkhead on the cruiser are in resin. The masters will be finished by next week and will be shown at a show on 14th of September. I'll find out which show and post the details. They will be produced by N-Drive Productions as part of their new push into scenic accessories. Next boat will be a VERY accurate narrow boat, a Nurser built wooden working boat, to be precise. Accurate, because I used to live on one! That will be followed by a model of Kingswear Castle, by way of doing a smallish paddle steamer for smaller quays/jetties. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Should have said that the boats will be waterline models, with a full hull conversion if required. Here are the real boats:- cruiser and lobster boat respectively. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Langley models used to do a few kits of boats The only thing to get correct scale wise is door heights and window sizes, however you often have to duck for doorways on boats anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My bald head is witness to that! Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Took a few more photos of other boat styles, a shot of a deck and harbour walls at low tide. Plenty of plans and photos on the web, be careful on what you are downloading(keep away from updates) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I have had a look for plans and found a couple on Ebay that might work, I think its more about an approximate shape rather than something that is an exact replica. Though a boat enthusiast would disagree. To an uneducated eye they all look similar with variations in length, cabin style and positions. And of course use differing methods to fish. I guess Model ship builders would smile at most of our attempts at model boat building, though in our ranks there are quite a few very competent boat builders A couple of other views one of a different harbour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You are unlikely to find many plans for British boats. That kind of vessel seems to be largely ignored. I got my info by measuring Charlotte. The cruiser is of a fairly typical set of proportions and is known to me anyway. The owner didn't want to hang around. Weed round his prop had delayed him already. You will see in your photos, many vessels that bear the same basic proportions for the lobster boat. Most are heavy GRP laminates. These are ideal for models as they don't possess frames and so are much easier to mould in resin. Here are the masters nearly finished, needing only a few details in brass, for w/m casting. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 We should not overlook this type of boat either. Also used for lobsters, but for other types, such as winkling and cockling, these are ideal boats for when the weather is behaving itself. But please, no good-enoughs, that'll dos and generics. You wouldn't do that with your locos Seen at St. Abbs, just north of Berwick-upon-Tweed. And these little Scaffie style boats are still found all over the north along with cobles all down the North East coast. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I didn't know about this firm until it was mentioned earlier. http://www.harburnhobbies.co.uk/acatalog/Quayside.html Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think Boatman would rather like this example, from Wells-next-the-Sea; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Artitec make kits for a bunch of different boats. They are HO, but potentially could be used for OO. They also do some in N (1/160) that could potentially be used in N (1/148) although the range is smaller. http://www.artitec.nl/index.php/en/kits/category/h0-ships Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Take a model boat, make a crude cradle from plastruct section, add 4 wagon wheels and mount on a length of broad gauge; Another one from Wells. More pics. here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 A genuine marine railway would make a nice addition to a quayside scene. King's Yard at Burnham on Crouch had a wonderful old curly spoked Crossley gas engine running the winch. That large dinghy is a beauty ain't she? They can only be properly modelled by being made plank by plank. Perfectly doable with a good pear veneer. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thanks for adding to the thread, I guess it depends on what type of harbour/river scene that's attempted, also the space available. Plenty of smaller boats in the harbour which are used to reach the bigger ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Anyone in East Anglia who wants some boats for their layout should skip along to Great Eastern models and bring some money .Some stunning scratchbuilt boats are in their showcase .reasonable price .Some buildings too .All too delicate to post I would think .Act quick though .i just got a large scratchbuilt low relief feed/flour mill for 20 quid .All too delicate to post .go NOW Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 That dinghy set-piece is only about 8" square, Hayfield, so can be used almost anywhere. It was just something to satisfy my missing my estuarial mud. I'm just finishing off the two boat masters now. Although the lobster boat is based on the real McCoy, it is very typical of a type found everywhere. The problem with a larger fishing boat is selecting a type. Most of those are significantly different from each other to make a choice difficult. Obviously any manufacturer has to reckon on selling quite a few. The next boat will be a solo motor Nurser wooden narrow boat, of which many were found throughout the country's canal system. (Barlow's and many privateer "No 1s") The intention is to do a working boat accurately in every respect. Having owned and lived aboard one, that shouldn't be a problem. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Just been down to the harbour this afternoon (took a few more photos including another internal and some rear shots but wont bore you) the boats seem to start at 30' (10 paces) and 40' ish (13 paces) so in 4mm scale they would be between 120 mm and 160 mm and 7 mm scale would come in at between 210 mm and 280 mm. Though I guess they could be scaled down a bit. I guess you could do a 20' to 25' boat would still look the part on a small harbour scene Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The lobster boat is a 25 footer. The cruiser is accurate at 21 foot 6". The narrow boat will also be accurate at 280mm x 28mm. A Scottish Zulu sailing fisherman could be as big as 80 feet! Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Just been down to the harbour this afternoon (took a few more photos including another internal and some rear shots but wont bore you) the boats seem to start at 30' (10 paces) and 40' ish (13 paces) so in 4mm scale they would be between 120 mm and 160 mm and 7 mm scale would come in at between 210 mm and 280 mm. Though I guess they could be scaled down a bit. I guess you could do a 20' to 25' boat would still look the part on a small harbour scene I think your measurements might be slightly off for the average vessel in a small drying harbour. The white sports boat in the last picture in post #8 (happy ours) is between 19' and 23'. Most launches (the open vessels) are between 16' and 25' and the fishing vessels with cabins from 20' up to 38'. If you increase the length you have to increase the draught, and as most drying harbours aren't very deep this limits the size of vessel able to use them. Most of the fishing boats you see are based on very similar designs, and are built in 2 parts - the hull and the superstructure. Hulls come in about 4 designs mostly changing by length, with the main visual difference being the height of the prow and the gunwhales. The superstructure is where most of the custom changes happen, as these are manufacturer specific. But as most hulls are manufactured in pretty standard sizes, superstructures can also be interchangeable. Many of the launches you see are just a hull that either never had a superstructure fitted or had it removed due to damage (a popular conversion in my boatyard, usually taking a week to complete). Hopefully some of this will help anyone planning to model these styles of boat, thinking of each boat as 2 parts makes it easier. Now when it comes to motor yachts and superyachts which is what I build these days, there are really no rules! Our latest 168' design will be customisable in pretty much every single way, which should make for an interesting build! Even something this size is built in the same way - a hull is moulded and a superstructure is built on top. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Mark Thank you, as you see the inner harbour is mostly dry at low tide. Now I may have misunderstood what you are saying (which is normal for me) But what I called the smaller boats (there were some smaller ones) were about 10 paces with the larger ones being 13. My pace may have been a bit under 3' a time and I may not have started and finished exactly in line with the ends. But I think I am not too far off. As for smaller boats using dry harbours, at times even the larger ones used the inner harbour all be it tied against the outer most part of the quay. But both big and small boats attached stilts each side which kept them upright at low tide. See the post in the centre of the larger blue boat, one is also visible on the one tied up at the back. The first picture in post 1 shows this as does one in post 7. Very interesting about using the same or similar hull designs, and I think I noticed most were based on the same two stiles. On for instance a 30' boat how wide would it be please and would this be the same for 30 footers as it is for 20/25 footers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatman Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Usually, the beam would increase with the length, but that can also be a question of style of hull. We intend to offer a full hull version of the lobster boat if people want one beached or in a very dry harbour. The idea being you just glue an extra moulding on to the bottom of the waterline model and give a gentle fill with one shot putty to smooth up the joint. That will have to be according to customer feedback. Regards, Boatman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Mark Thank you, as you see the inner harbour is mostly dry at low tide. Now I may have misunderstood what you are saying (which is normal for me) But what I called the smaller boats (there were some smaller ones) were about 10 paces with the larger ones being 13. My pace may have been a bit under 3' a time and I may not have started and finished exactly in line with the ends. But I think I am not too far off. As for smaller boats using dry harbours, at times even the larger ones used the inner harbour all be it tied against the outer most part of the quay. But both big and small boats attached stilts each side which kept them upright at low tide. See the post in the centre of the larger blue boat, one is also visible on the one tied up at the back. The first picture in post 1 shows this as does one in post 7. Very interesting about using the same or similar hull designs, and I think I noticed most were based on the same two stiles. On for instance a 30' boat how wide would it be please and would this be the same for 30 footers as it is for 20/25 footers I'm pretty confident that the blue vessel tied to the harbour wall in this picture is no longer than 36', using other known sizes in the picture as a comparison (a man is 6' and a car is 10'). Working out hull sizes can be a PITA, I eventually got myself a rangefinder to do it because measuring on a quay sometimes turned out to be 15' different to LOA on a 140' yacht. The stilts you see holding the boats up are there to protect the props on shaft-drive boats. The shafts aren't flexible so if the keel was to rest on the bottom the weight of the boat would be on the prop and shaft, bending them beyond use or repair. Smaller pleasure boats have either out drives that can be raised (which is what I have) or the outboard engine is removed. I would imagine larger yachts coming in to a drying harbour is a maintenance thing - checking your hull at low tide is free this way, instead of £5000 for a lift-out in a shipyard. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Mart The one at the back of the photo (dark blue FY490) is one of the bigger boats 40 + foot, probably a 50 footer. The one in the front will be nearer to 40', again one of the larger of the smaller boats. I am told the smaller boats are inshore boats that work around the bay, Not so the dark blue boat which I was told follows the fish up and down the coast, no idea which bracket FY97 fits in to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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