Shunter Duties books - the illusive 1973 edition

[18B]

Hi,

 

I've been trying to track down a copy of the illusive 1973 edition of Shunter dutuies, the earliest one I;ve been able to find is the quite common 1979 edition, has anyone got any of the earlier edtitions?

[18B]

two years on and still not found a copy.......

[Nick Holliday]

Entering pedantic mode, and adopting the spirit of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue:

Illusive is a word derived from "Illusion" and hence means something imaginary.

Elusive is a strainer fitted in your toilet.

No wonder you can't get hold of it if it is illusive, but, if it did exist, maybe you have a chance, eventually, of tracking down an elusive copy

[18B]

anywon wo no's me will no that my spillings, especially by text are rubesh.    

[4630]

.

Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630

[AberdeenBill]

Classic!   This brings back memories of poring over OS maps and trying to work out where some of the out-based shunters on non-passenger routes actually were...     I seem to recall a possibly even earlier version than the one that Russ shows.  It was very crudely produced in 'landscape' format (about 10 cm high and 20 cm wide) and photocopied from a typewritten original rather than printed.    I may have got it at a Derby Works or Eastleigh Works open day?   

 

Bill

 

[4630]

.

Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630

[Downendian]

I had one of the originals, sadly lost in the sands of time. Geoff Woodley, in his light blue Dolomite, was a permanent fixture in the car park at Bristol Parkway in the 1970s. Unfortunately Geoff died a few years back, I learnt so much about BR diesels and operating practice from him. Geoff also produced a home brew WTT for the Filton-Patchway-Stoke Gifford triangle which I still have, handwritten and on Xerox copies but neatly bound, produced I think from where he worked. They were bibles for us Bristol based spotters. He may have produced an earlier version of Shunter duties in a similar format, but the one shown earlier is the first produced by ICRS which was established in 1973.

I vaguely remember asking Geoff why he didn't have a model railway - his response was "why when you can see all this rolling past?". It was at the time when Westerns were in their final years, and he was probably right at that time!

RIP Geoff.

Neil

[bazjones1711]

This copy is from 1977/78

 

let me know if you need any specific info or with time could copy and PM you the entire contents

Baz

[Downendian]

A couple of pages from the Parkway spotters bible, Geoff's home brew WTT.

Happy childhood days!

Neil

[Rail-Online]

I have one that is just a typed document (it may have lost its outer cover). Duties include class 02 shunters which were withdrawn soon after re-numbering. Would this be the elusive 1973 one?  I used it in early TOPS days and recall being frustrated that several duties had ceased- change was coming even in 1974!

 

Tony

[18B]

Rail-online, it could well be...........

[AberdeenBill]

I have one that is just a typed document (it may have lost its outer cover). Duties include class 02 shunters which were withdrawn soon after re-numbering. Would this be the elusive 1973 one?  I used it in early TOPS days and recall being frustrated that several duties had ceased- change was coming even in 1974!

 

Tony

 

Tony: please can you post a couple of scan if possible.   Was this the one that had 'ratings' of how likely it was you could see the number of a shunter?  

 

Bill

[Rail-Online]

Tony: please can you post a couple of scan if possible.   Was this the one that had 'ratings' of how likely it was you could see the number of a shunter?  

 

Bill

Bill,

 

Here are the first three pages

 

Cheers Tony

[AberdeenBill]

Hi Tony,

 

OMG (as they didn't say in 1973), that's it!       The sheer number of duties is amazing, 28 for Allerton for example.   This is such a valuable document, I wonder if you would be kind enough to scan all of it?  

 

Thanks again,

Bill

[Ben04uk]

Bill,

 

Here are the first three pages

 

Cheers Tony

Tony, thanks for this, it really is fascinating. Would you be so kind to scan the Cornwall based shunter duties, i.e. St Blazey, Penzance (Long Rock), etc?

[Rail-Online]

Ok Guys,

I did think twice about posting the total document, but thought it is actually a historic record of things in 1973 so should be shared. here we go.......

 

The notes column far right is referenced in the Appendix. You need the previous entry from me for the explanation of the columns.  The hand written notes are mine, either corrections (suspended duties - the world was changing fast even in 1974!) or the shunters I 'needed' off that shed. I think I was still using it in 1975 so there were not that many needed.  SG is the new allocation Slade Green with its one shunter 08600 which was later tarted up.

 

I note in the Appendix if refers to one duty ending in July 1973 so it is indeed the earliest dated 'shunter duties'.

 

I think I lost the back few pages on stabling points for main line locos but we all knew them anyway!

 

If there is anything missing just message me.

 

Have fun!

 

Tony

Edited August 12, 2016 by Rail-Online

[caradoc]

Fantastic stuff Tony, many thanks for taking the time to post. The sheer number of shunter duties then is mind-boggling !

[stovepipe]

Many thanks for this.

 

If anyone is interested I am aware of two other online sources of shunting and trip workings for certain parts of the country.

 

Bristol area

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=571

 

And the fairly well known 2D53 site for North Wales.

 

http://www.2d53.co.uk/trip/tripmenu.htm

[Rail-Online]

Fantastic stuff Tony, many thanks for taking the time to post. The sheer number of shunter duties then is mind-boggling !

Sorry it just seemed usual for us at the time.  12 shunters in Toton yard seemed quite well employed, etc etc.

 

Looking back it is interesting to see which ones I found hard to cop. They were mainly the 7 day duties outbased at their yards away from passenger lines.

Eventually I got them all of course, my last 03 in the shed at Hammerton Street (it never actually worked there but was allocated for a few months before withdrawl and a fast cutting up - 03047) and the last 3 08's were 08933 sitting opposite the station at Eastleigh and the very last was 08941 in the yard at St Blazey after being re-allocated a couple of times and me going down to Plymouth twice just to get it and it being told it was 'away' by helpful shed foremen at Laira.  My last main line loco was 37010  another heavily re-allocated loco after numerous visits to Newcastle to get it, then being sent to March ( a pig of a place to get a 37 from as they could be anywhere) and finally catching up with it at Toton of all places- really close to my old home. It had some of the numerals missing so I simply drove into the depot to make sure what I saw with my binoculars from the bank was correct!

 

Happy days.

 

Tony

Edited August 12, 2016 by Rail-Online

[Peter A Hall]

Only just came across this thread. I too had been trying to trace early editions of the ICRS Shunter Duties and 'alternative NCTS 'Where the !*!*! are they books both for personal use, the RCTS library and future developments on the Heritage Shunters Trust and ESS websites.

 

I now have originals or copies of all but one of what I believe to be the second edition of the ICRS variant. I believe the pages scanned by Tony are of the original edition from 1973. The pages reproduced appear to match those in my copy. The cover of this had a line drawing of 4144 imposed on an outline of the Great Britain. I am told the second edition in 1974 had the same cover but presumably with an addition indicating it was the second edition. I am also told the first was Quarto size and the second A5, however mine version is a scan with pages expanded to A4 so not can't confirm the original size. Tony, can you say if yours is Quarto or A5?

 

I am sure someone somewhere has copies of both that would clarify the situation. Below is what I believe is a complete list of all 15 editions of the ICRS variant.

 

1 – 4144 - 1973 (Quarto)

 

2 - 4144 - 1974 - (A5) This is believed to be an updated version to 1 but on different sized paper.

 

3 – 2113 – 1975

 

4 – 08’s at Gloucester - 1976

 

5 – 08’s at Stratford – 1977/78

 

6 – 03160/08237/08256 - 1979

 

7 – 08233 – 1981

 

8 – 08941 - 1982

 

9 – 03086 – 1983

 

10 – 08573 – 1985

 

11 – 08673 – 1987

 

12 – 08601 – 1991

 

13 – 08633 – 1992

 

14 – 09101 – 1995

 

15 – 08892 - 1998

 

I have so far only traced two of the NCTS variant. These date from 1974/75 I believe and both have the same cover depicting 2164 at Stratford. The difference is that the second more comprehensive has 'PRICE 20P' the earlier one does not show a price. I am very keen to know if anyone has any other examples.

[Rail-Online]

. Tony, can you say if yours is Quarto or A5?

It is about an inch and a quarter smaller than A4 in height - is that Quarto?

 

Tony

[08221]

Thanks for scanning this, great memories of years gone bye.

 

Tracking down shunters by maps and trains which passed them.

 

Old Bletchley depot info especially useful, thanks for posting.

[Peter A Hall]

When you start digging into paper sizes it is not as simple as you first thought! Anyhow, the NCTS variant used Large Post Quarto size paper (8" x 10" or 203.2 x 254.0 mm in new money. I suspect this is the size used by the ICRS as roughly fits the dimensions quoted by Tony. Thus, confirming Tony does have the first edition.

 

Not surprisingly, my admission that I have other 1970s copies has resulted in requests for copies. It is clear demand exists for these earlier editions to be available somewhere online for reference. However, the issue of copyright rears its head and my understanding is that the ICRS retain the copyright. As they presumably have examples of all editions perhaps they would be willing to put them out on their website http://www.intercityrailwaysociety.org/index.html I am also aware that ESS http://www.engineshedsociety.co.uk/index.shtml Chairman Roger Butcher is keen to develop further coverage of 1960s and 1970s shed bashing so would be more than happy to include them on their website if permission can be given. The NCTS variant are not such a problem but just need to sort out the technicalities.

[Peter A Hall]

I have now identified three different versions of the Northern Counties Transport Society version.  Below is a scan of the cover of the second chronologically.
 

The first has the same cover but without the PRICE 20P in the bottom left hand corner.

 

The third has the wording SHUNTER STABLING POINT BOOK COMPLETE WITH DIRECTIONS immediately below the picture and PRICE 20P  below WHERE THE ! * ! * ! ARE THEY 

 

It is possible other versions may have been produced that have yet to surface.