The Lilleshall Company a little known industrial railway

[martin_m]

Pete, yes the photo is the inspiration for the recent Bachmann model. I just wish there were more photos of other Lilleshall wagons!

What an interesting thread.

 

Whilst boning up on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Railway, in BRJ 23 from Autumn 1988, p139 I found another Lilleshall wagon in a train at Shrewsbury.

 

regards,

 

martin

[Norton961]

Thought it was about time to post some more photos of the L:illeshall Co in this thread.

The first is a close up of a works plate of one of the Lilleshall Co own build locos.

 

The second photo is of Alberta a Barcley 0-4-0 which was only purchased by the Company in October 1956 from Lever Brothers in Port Sunlight having been built in 1913 and delivered new to Lever Brothers. The loco was one of the last in operation and was reputed to be in excellent condition. The loco was used to haul 3 open wagons around the system carrying enthusiats on 26 September 1958 shortley before the system colsed. The loco was scrapped on site in 1959.

 

My next post will cover the locos built by the Company and used on the system.

 

David

[steaman]

Thought it was about time to post some more photos of the L:illeshall Co in this thread.Lillershall Co loco No2. 1986 taken in 7-1933. - Copy.jpg

The first is a close up of a works plate of one of the Lilleshall Co own build locos.

 

Lilleshall Company 30-4-1958..jpg

The second photo is of Alberta a Barcley 0-4-0 which was only purchased by the Company in October 1956 from Lever Brothers in Port Sunlight having been built in 1913 and delivered new to Lever Brothers. The loco was one of the last in operation and was reputed to be in excellent condition. The loco was used to haul 3 open wagons around the system carrying enthusiats on 26 September 1958 shortley before the system colsed. The loco was scrapped on site in 1959.

 

My next post will cover the locos built by the Company and used on the system.

 

David

There are not too many photos published from the last day special with Alberta. Here are 2 views taken by A.J.B.Dodd from inside the wagons as the special ran along parts of the railway system.

[Norton961]

Great photo of the enthusiasts special. I notice that the middle wagon does not appear to have been used for some time as it is full of grass!

 

Whilst strictly a Lilleshall Co loco it would be appropriate to include in this thread the locos of Granville Colliery, which was Lilleshall Company owned untill it was passed to the NCB. The NCB bought it some modern locos to work the various yards around the colliery and also the loaded coal trains down to Donnington sidings where they were passed over to BR usually with a destination of Buildwas Power Station at Coalbrookedale. Granville Number 5 arrived new in 1952 and in later years was fitted with a Geisel ejector and chimmney.

The second photo was taken by me in 1965 and shows Granville No 5 at Donnington about to push the loaded coal train into the interchange yard.

 The garage in the right background was on the main road between Wellington and Newport and I worked there as a petrol pump attendant as a Saturday job.

 

No doubt Steaman will post a few more photos of Granville!

The third photo is by A J B Dodd and shows the engine shed at Granville in the 1960s with Granville No5 on the right and probably No 8 on the left.

I have a model built of Granville No 5 with nameplates from Narrow Planet, as soon as they are fitted I will post a photo.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Norton961

[steaman]

Great photo of the enthusiasts special. I notice that the middle wagon does not appear to have been used for some time as it is full of grass!

 

Whilst strictly a Lilleshall Co loco it would be appropriate to include in this thread the locos of Granville Colliery, which was Lilleshall Company owned untill it was passed to the NCB. The NCB bought it some modern locos to work the various yards around the colliery and also the loaded coal trains down to Donnington sidings where they were passed over to BR usually with a destination of Buildwas Power Station at Coalbrookedale. Granville Number 5 arrived new in 1952 and in later years was fitted with a Geisel ejector and chimmney.

Granville No 5 (HE3771-1952) newly delivered 10-5-1952.Industrial Railway soc. - Copy.jpg

Granville No 5 waiting to push a loaded coal train from Granville colliary across the road and into the exchange sidings at Donnington station. D Clarke..jpg

The second photo was taken by me in 1965 and shows Granville No 5 at Donnington about to push the loaded coal train into the interchange yard.

 The garage in the right background was on the main road between Wellington and Newport and I worked there as a petrol pump attendant as a Saturday job.

 

No doubt Steaman will post a few more photos of Granville!

Granville Colliery.jpg

The third photo is by A J B Dodd and shows the engine shed at Granville in the 1960s with Granville No5 on the right and probably No 8 on the left.

I have a model built of Granville No 5 with nameplates from Narrow Planet, as soon as they are fitted I will post a photo.

Here are some static locomotive pictures taken by A.J.B.Dodd of 2 of the locomotives that worked on the Granville colliery system at one time or another. The first is of Barclay loco No 2246 of 1948 and the second is of Hunslet loco No 3776 of 1952 (Identified as No 8). This latter loco was delivered new to Baggeridge colliery and left the Granville for further NCB use, eventually being preserved.

[bennyboy]

Granville No 5 waiting to push a loaded coal train from Granville colliary across the road and into the exchange sidings at Donnington station. D Clarke..jpg

The second photo was taken by me in 1965 and shows Granville No 5 at Donnington about to push the loaded coal train into the interchange yard.

 The garage in the right background was on the main road between Wellington and Newport and I worked there as a petrol pump attendant as a Saturday job.

 

 

 

I remember camping near there in the 80s and you could still see the remains of where the line crossed the road and I think the crossing gates were still intact. Incidentally the garage still seems to exist as Van Beek Motor Factors.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7236172,-2.4333898,3a,75y,130.49h,82.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAvG8k6kNn3Jc53LveZw9mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[PGH]

The Lilleshall System is an interesting subject and we should be grateful for the time and effort that David has taken to publish these images.  Its a pity that some of the photos lack details such as date taken and source.  I think the original photographer (if known) deserves some credit.

 

I always thought Shropshire was an interesting county railway-wise, particularly to someone whose interests are off the main line, i.e. branch lines, light railways and industrials.  What it lacked in quantity it had in quality, or perhaps more appropriately - variety.  Some of my "misspent youth" involved day trips to Shropshire by train from North Wales, and on different occasions I explored branch lines and quarry railways in the Oswestry Area and walked the full length of the Ludlow & Clee Hill Railway, the trackbed of the Snailbeach District Railway and most of the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Railway.  However it wasn't until I was fully mobile in the mid 1960's that I began to tackle some of the industrial locations, by which time of course the Lilleshall system had closed.  I did make several visits to Granville Colliery, sometimes briefly at weekends when en­­-route to somewhere else on the nearby A5 road but on two occasions the visits were on working days in 1966 and 1969, the latter just before the end of steam working at the colliery.  As this topic has included photos of the NCB period at Granville I thought the following photos taken on those two visits might be of interest. 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[Caledonian]

 

 

Seen in the background of another photo were these internal user wagons with the load covered by tarpaulin, an unusual sight at a colliery.  Whether they were carrying fine coal dust (but for what purpose ?) or some other material I've no idea.

 

If the above is of interest I'll post details of the 1969 visit which will include photos of the two brakevans.

 

Splendid photies and yes I'd like to see the 1969 visit.

 

As to those tarpaulin covered wagons, I suspect they were most likely carrying "stone dust". This was a by-product of water-softening, involving lime and soda-ash. The resultant sludge was settled in lagoons then kiln-dried, to use for fire damping. On the Wemyss system it was packed in 3/4 cwt bags and distributed to the various collieries in covered vans. 

[avonside1563]

'The Colonel' looks a very handsome machine, shame she(he) wasn't saved. Great photos PGH thanks for posting.

[Norton961]

PGH, thanks for posting some great shots of Granville Colliery. I take your point abouty wher known to credit the photographer but in some cases there is no name on the back of the photo i have posted. My friend Tim Shuttleworth took a number of shots in the area and of the Lillishall Co and he took the photo I am attaching. The question I have is why is the loco been stripped down in the steel works area rather than in the custom built shed and workshops at New Yard? The caption on the back of the photo says No 6 but that was one of the Lilleshall built 0-4-0 tanks, this looks like one of the ex TVR 0-6-2 tanks.

 

I am attaching another view of Granville Colliery loco shed, again dont know the photographer and there was no caption but I recognized the location immedietly.

 

I am pleased with the response to my thread and hopefully it has generated further interest in the Company and its railway.

 

David

[PGH]

My friend Tim Shuttleworth took a number of shots in the area and of the Lillishall Co and he took the photo I am attaching. The question I have is why is the loco been stripped down in the steel works area rather than in the custom built shed and workshops at New Yard? The caption on the back of the photo says No 6 but that was one of the Lilleshall built 0-4-0 tanks, this looks like one of the ex TVR 0-6-2 tanks.

Lilleshall Co No 6 17-5-1952. Loco under repir at Steelworks. F W Shuttleworth..jpg

 

 

David, I have a copy of the same photo with a F.W.Shuttleworth sticker on the back and the reference "AD98".  Like yours its dated 17/5/1952 but the loco is given as No.1 Cardiff 305/95 ex GWR 581.  I also have a note that this loco was seen working on 4/10/1956 so evidently it was reassembled.  It was scrapped in August 1958  (IRS info)

 

 

On 30.8.1969 (a Saturday) a chance visit to Granville found the two working locos on one road in the shed - Giesl fitted Hunslet 2895/43 and No.8 Hunslet Austerity 3776/52, the latter with a normal chimney.  No.8 had been  transferred from Hilton Main Colliery, Staffordshire in August 1968 and was painted Black with Red coupling rods.  On the other shed road were two brand new Hunslet 0-6-0 diesels, No.1D Hunslet 6663/69 and No.2D Hunslet 6664/69 which had arrived during the previous week.  The livery of the diesels was Mid Green including wheels; Red coupling rods, radiator grilles and plates; Yellow lettering and Yellow/Black buffer beams.  I was told that the staff were waiting for a Hunslet man to demonstrate them to the loco crews after which one of the two working steam locos would be kept as spare and the other scrapped.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[Norton961]

Loveley photos of Granville and its locos.

I am now posting another Tim Shuttleworth photo of the ex Barry Railway 0-6-2 tank (VF1342 of 1892) this became Lilleshall No 5 having been aquired by the company in July 1934 and active untill it was withdrawn in January 1957.

 

 

I would love to build a 4mm model of the ex TVR locos but as far as I know there are no kits for this class of loco.

Another photo of the ex TVR loco transfered from the Lilleshall Co to the NCB at Granville from the K J Cooper collection of the Industrial Railway Society.

 

 

David

[PGH]

David,

Further to the photo of the dismantled TVR 0-6-2T, I've scanned and photo edited my copy and it clearly shows the faint "No.1" on the bunker side:

 

 

 

This is also the same loco in the second photo in Post #112, you can pick out some of the same dents in the tank side, so its not the loco (No.3) which went to the NCB.  Although the two locos are nearly identical you can pick out small detail differences such as the small plate above the handrail knob on the smokebox (No.1);the missing smokebox top lamp iron (No.3) and the different chimney fixings.

[sir douglas]

12.10611B © PGH.jpg

 

a little something worth mentioning is the Geisel ejector chimney

[PGH]

a little something worth mentioning is the Geisel ejector chimney

 

For those interested in such things the Industrial Railway Society's Record magazine No.197 of March 2009 contained an article on modifications to NCB steam locomotives which included a list of all known NCB locos fitted with Giesl (the correct spelling) ejectors and if known when and where they were fitted.  I believe copies may still be available from the Hon Publications Officer.  Updates to the article were included in Records 203 and 220.

 

For the two Granville locos HE 2895 and HE 3771 the best we could come up with was fitted before my visit of 10/1966, so its not known when and where they were so fitted.

Edited May 1, 2017 by PGH

[Norton961]

PGH thanks for the blowup of Lilleshall No 1 dismantled within the works yard. The Lilleshal Co does not seem to have been to bothered about painting numbers on its locomotives with such a small fleet and only operating an a relatively small system the crews and operating managers would know all the locos individually.

It's been a pleasure for me for other people to add to this thread as I am always keen to see new material on the company and its railway system. I recently saw a large collection of AJB Dodd of photos of the Lilleshall Co, not just of the railway system but of the blast furnaces and it is hoped that this can be produced in book form.

 

David

[PGH]

With the new diesels arrived and only waiting for a Hunslet representative to demonstrate them to the crews, I wonder if these were the last photos of steam in use on the Granville/Lilleshall system ?  All three remaining steam locos were disposed of the following year.  I visited again at the end of May 1970 on a weekend (non working) day.  GRANVILLE No.5 and HE 2895 had been scrapped the previous month.  No.8 appeared to have been recently repainted in unlined black and shortly after it was transferred to Cannock Wood Colliery, later West Cannock, Bickershaw then subsequently preserved.

 

Going through these photos it appears that I missed photographing HE 2895 although it was quite clearly standing outside the shed in the first photo above.  However I did have other things to do that day because after photographing No.8 returning to the colliery with empties I travelled down to Coventry Colliery to photograph one of the ex BR 15XX 0-6-0PTs then down to Harbury Cement Works to see the unusual Fowler 3ft gauge 2-4-0 diesels.  I was obviously making the most of a days holiday off work, well two actually as the following day it was Astley Green Colliery, Walkden Yard and the electrics at Kearsley Power Station - those were the days!

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[bennyboy]

Thanks for posting these photos, especially that first one which shows a scene that just demands to be modelled! Also thanks for showing the level crossing at Donnington as I remember seeing the disused gates when I was camping there in the early 80s. It's interesting that you mention the ungated crossing on Granville Rd as you can still see the rails embedded in the road on Google Street View! And do you know why the wagons were gravity shunted across the level crossing at Donnington?

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.708565,-2.4174543,3a,75y,87.15h,54.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4BXl2IQGI-m2ZaazLBl_aw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[PGH]

 And do you know why the wagons were gravity shunted across the level crossing at Donnington?

 

I only witnessed it once so I don't know if it was the regular practice.  It might be because the interchange sidings were so occupied that there was no spare line to run round.  On the other hand it might just have been an easier or quicker way of swapping a full train for an empty train - the loco could run straight on to the empty wagons and after the fulls had gravitated past (and been suitably braked) would be clear to depart, after setting back if necessary to collect the brakevan from the rear of the full wagons.  Another possible reason might be that running round in the conventional manner using the points at the other end of the sidings may have involved running over BR track and required waiting for the approval of the BR signalman before this could be carried out.

Edited May 3, 2017 by PGH

[Norton961]

PGH, great photos, interesting that the photos show the coal train working into the interchange yard by gravity. When the standard 16ton wagons were being used the Granville loco would push the train into the yard. When the train was assembled in the interchange yard at Donnington for the BR loco there would usually be a BR brake van at each end of the train as the train would reverse at Wellington and at Madeley Junct to work down to Buildwas Power Station, the 2 brake vans reducing the amount of shunting at each of the reversals.

Regarding the stored wagons in one of the photos, as a 16 year old I liberated one of the wagon plates which now sits in my garage over my layout of Trench sidings!

 

David

[wagonbasher]

PGH, thanks for posting some great shots of Granville Colliery. I take your point abouty wher known to credit the photographer but in some cases there is no name on the back of the photo i have posted. My friend Tim Shuttleworth took a number of shots in the area and of the Lillishall Co and he took the photo I am attaching. The question I have is why is the loco been stripped down in the steel works area rather than in the custom built shed and workshops at New Yard? David

Maybe to facilitate the use of an overhead crane

 

Andy

[PGH]

The two brakevans at Granville in latter years came from the NCB's Cannock & Rugeley Collieries system.  They were apparently employed on trains of container wagons used to transport coal from West Cannock Colliery to the canal basin at the end of the Cannock Extension Canal.  This traffic ceased about 1962 which is probably about the date they were transferred to Granville.  It seems likely that the container wagons at Granville shown in Post #107 were also originally used for this traffic on the Cannock & Rugeley system.

 

 

 

The brakevan in use carried no lettering or number at Granville

 

 

 

It was preserved at the Telford Steam Railway and repainted with added lettering - 2001 photo

 

 

 

The second brakevan was still lettered "CRC No.4"

 

 

 

Parked at the end of a siding it may not have been used here and was eventually scrapped

 

 

 

A rough diagram of No.4 with major dimensions

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[steaman]

Here are some further photos of the Granville colliery system in colour taken by A.J.B.Dodd during the 1960's.

Of interest is the derailment of Hunslet 2895 - by means of a bit of planning and the assistance of the yellow digger, normality was restored.

 

In the shed at the Granville is an unidentified 16 inch Hunslet alongside another stripped loco.

 

At work just along from the engine shed at the Granville AB2246 is seen with a nice selection of NCB wooden body wagons.

 

A bit further away from the engine shed and on the climb from the exchange sidings, is No 8 working a train load of empty HAA wagons up to the colliery loading point.

 

Slightly closer to the engine shed is Hunslet 2895 working past one of the distinctive beehive shaped lineside huts, this time with a rake of 16 ton trucks - pre HAA.

 

At the risk of being branded a heretic & doom monger, here is the fate of one of the Hunslets at the Granville - Unfortunately I don't know which one.

That's all for now.

Steaman

 

 

[PGH]

The post on the Granville brakevans didn't seem to attract much interest and chances are this post may attract less (Update - a bit too pessimistic perhaps), because its definitely not standard gauge industrial but about as narrow gauge as you can get.  It is however part of the Lilleshall story as after the transfer of the Granville section to the NCB and the closure of the remaining section of the standard gauge line it was the last section of railway to be operated by the company.  In deference to the standard gauge devotees this post will be deleted in due course. (No - its staying !)

 

The Lilleshall Company's Donnington Wood Brickworks was situated at the end of a branch off the Lilleshall Railway's main line, to which it was connected by a triangular junction.  It is shown on the map in Post #8 between New Yard Works and Old Lodge Ironworks.  The works was connected to the clay pit by a 1'-3" gauge system worked by endless chains.  A published account gives the gauge as 1'-6", but in the notes I made at the site I recorded - 1'-3" gauge (actually measures 1'-2¹/₂") - so I'm reasonably confident it was a nominal 1'-3" gauge.

 

The system comprised two parallel lines, one for empties going out to the pit and one for fulls returning to the works, laid in two straight sections with a turn through approximately 70 degrees at about the midway point.  An endless chain driven by an electric motor at the works end drove the first section to a return pulley at the mid point, which in turn drove a similar endless chain on the second section to the pit.  The small tubs (wagons) had steel bodies on timber frames.  Above one end of the tub was fixed a vertical plate with a 'V' shaped gap to engage with the drive chain.  At the mid point where the chain was raised to pass round the guide pulleys the track was graded so that when the tubs were detached from the rising drive chain they would run by gravity round the curve to be picked up by the next section of chain.  At the clay pit and works ends of the line there was no pointwork, just areas of flat steel plates on which the small tubs could be manhandled as required.

 

 

 

View from the midway point towards the clay pit.  My visit was on a Saturday when the system wasn't working and all the tubs were stored away in the works tipping shed.

 

 

 

View from the same point towards the works

 

The works closed in 1972

Edited October 15, 2018 by PGH

[Compound2632]

The post on the Granville brakevans didn't seem to attract much interest

 

Well, I was interested but didn't get round to asking: is it known where the Cannock company got them from? Home-made, main-line cast-offs or new from one of the rolling-stock manufacturing companies?