BlueRail Trains - Bluetooth Locomotive Control

[Nile_Griffith]

Hi Gene......... Lets change that........ Hey Gene (the first sounds like a cry for cleanliness)

 

Yes the various sound files (I think Dave Rees at BueRail described them as sound schemes to me........... Dave are you reading this??) are indeed stored within the App and not on the hardware (board). Now dependent on your smart phone or tablet device. This sound can be transmitted via Bluetooth to a compatible bluetooth audio device.

 

Now this presents certain advantages. Firstly because the sound is not stored on the board, you are not restricted to a relatively small on board memory storage. With the sound stored within the App potentially the  App is only constrained by the amount of storage that your smart deice has available. So in the case of say, a thirty two giga byte iPad 2, potentially it would be more than reasonable for the App to comfortably gain access to around one gig of stored audio. To give you an indication of how much sound that equates to, thats pretty much an average CD's (remember those) content of high quality stereo audio. A second advantage which at present isn't implemented, but would be reasonably straightforward to write into an App. Is that it would be possible for a modeller to obtain their own sound files and load them to their own controlling smart device with the same ease that we currently add music files. At present with DCC, a modeller is reliant on the sound chip manufacturer for the sound file installed, an independent provider who is equipped to install from their library of available sound files to your own DCC sound chip. Or to make the investment yourself in the equipment required to flash the data into your DCC sound chips and source your own sound files.

 

In my review of the Bluehorse chip earlier in the thread. I linked both an iPhone and an iPad running the Bluerail App, via bluetooth to an Apple TV device, the Apple TV device then provided an analogue audio output to my HiFi system and the sound of the loco could be heard through my Genlec speakers (sounding the horn got very addictive). As a nice little bonus, I could set the iPad into mirror mode and view my iPad screen on my LED TV screen, again via the Apple TV's HDMI output (I guess from a club point of view this would make a handy tool when discussing some of those fine tweaks).

 

As said I think what we are seeing in BlueRails App is only really scratching the surface of whats available, best of all we are not having to sit here waiting for the technology to arrive, its already here. What we are waiting on are the software developers to start tiring it all together.

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Nile_Griffith

[Gene]

Hi Nile...funny enough I just tried tieing my app to a small wireless bluetooth speaker that I have and had no problem...had the loco running on the layout with the speaker on the shelf above the layout projecting the sounds instead of from my iPhone. Although it worked well and does allow for a surround-sound effect if you have the right set-up it aslo demonstrated the shortfall in that effect that I mentined earlier. I'm going to be interested how the sound effects work out when I have my second loco on the layout and they are both running. I do see the plus aspect of the sounds being in the app instead of the chip....right now Bachmann has an Alco RS3 available with the easy app but it uses the generic diesel sound that is loaded into the app....which bears zero resemblence to the real RS3....now if the user could just load a RS3 sound file that would be great...

.meanwhile BlueRail and Bachmann have to do that asap!!!!

[Ron Ron Ron]

Great post Nile.

Right on the nail with "scratching the surface" 

 

 

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[RandyWales]

Edit: post deleted

Edited April 12, 2017 by RandyWales

[Gene]

I revieved my second BlueRails equipped Bachmann loco yesterday...Another GP in CN livery. I first put it on the layout and madesure the app picked it up and all ran normally....which it did although with sound off I heard a very distinctive and regular clunking sound as the loco moved...a sound I hadn't noticed on my first loco, another Geep. More on that later. My next step was to change the address from 3 to 4009 and run through the various sound-effects. All good. So back to that clunking sound. My first thought was the dreaded cracked-gear syndrome...but I decided to turn off the sound on my first Geep...and there it was the same clunking sound. I opened a couple of trucks and checked but no obvious gear issues, then lifted the body and saw no obvious fouling or other issues so I put it down to some manufacturing or build issue. You can't hear the noise when the sounds are on.

 

Next...I re-watched the BlueRails video showing how to consist and speed-match locos and saw and watched the video about improving slow-speed running....WOW....there was the clunking sound again...if you watch the slow-speed running video you can just hear the clunking on the Geep....so its an issue across the board and not just my bad luck. Like I said though...it can't be heard above the sounds and it doesn't seem to interfere with the actual movement of the loco.

 

So, now to consisting and speed-matching. Very very cool. I use an NCE system for my regular DCC locos and never had a problem consisting my locos...I've found it pretty easy, although I've only consisted 2 locos at a time. The BlueRails app makes consisting very very simple,easier and quicker than regular DCC even as easy as that is. Its definately quicker. Watch the videos...it really is that easy.

Speed-matching....now this is really were in my opinion that this system stands out!!! A quick caveat...my home layout is just a 6ft long shunting plank with the longest straight stretch being about 24 inches...so not optimal for speed-matching. I will be taking the locos to the club layout which has some nice long straight track to really test the speed-matching out. Suffice to say it really is a very cool and easy system to use. And it works. I can't say how absolutely accurate and precise it is...after all it uses the Mark 1 eyeball as the main measureing tool....if there was a way to read all the parameters with something like JMRI or other tools we might find it isn't that precise....but to my eyes it does work and it works well enough for my needs. And its easy! Watch the video on the BlueRail webpage!!!

 

To me the best feature of the system is the speed-matching and the fact that you can control the train wirelessly using a smartphonr...something virtually everybody owns and knows how to use.

 

Now I have noticed some minor problems and issues with the system...I'll discuss those in a seperate post later today.

 

Cheers

Gene

[Gene]

Some further thoughts and impressions on the BlueRail/Bachmann Ez-App and trains.

I don't think this system, no matter how well refined or updated, will ever satisfy those techies who can really fine-tune a DCC loco using the finer parts of JMRI or other open-source DCC software...and I don't mean that as an attack on either side. But for guys who understand about bits and all that comlex DCC stuff I just don't see this as being of interest. And I'm probably wrong

 

But I could see it taking-off and becoming very popular if certain things are improved or incorporated into the system.

1)Sounds: the existing sounds, especially diesel prime-mover are generic and not applicable to many locos...probably the same for steam. I'm sure the BlueRail folks will add more sound-files as time goes on( I certainly hope they do) otherwise the system will too limited by the existing soundfiles.

2) Although having the sounds come from your mobile device isn't a huge problem on a very small layout like my 6x1 shunting plank it will be problematic on large layouts....it just won't sound right.....and could be problematic at exhibitions. I would really like to see speakers and sound coming from the loco like existing DCC. And yes I saw the video of the small speaker in the stock car...nice idea up to a point but still a stop-gap.

3) Connectivity....I have noticed,even on my small layout and even with my phone within 24 inches of the loco some odd connectivity issues.... things like the loco not connecting to the app or suddenly disconnecting while running...or most oddly...the sound totally disappeard while running and no way to get it back, it was like the sound files had been wiped from the app. I had to completely shut everything down,layout,locos,phone app and then restart and the sounds were back...it was bizarre. The other thing is with sounds coming from the app in the phone you can't really have two or more locos working or idleing on the layout....even when consisted you only get one engine sound.

 

I think once these issues are sorted this becomes more than just a sideshow/gimmick for the kiddies and it then becomes a more viable train-control system . IMHO.

 

I really like the concept of simplified wiring that the bluetooth control gives and the ease of consisting and especially the ease of speed-matching are really awesome and are potential gamechangers for the system.

 

The actual apps...both the Bachmann EZ-App and the BlueRail App are free to download( big plus).... I found the BlueRail app to be slightly better and more featured for both actual train control and ability to tweak control parameters than the Bachmann app..but since both are free try each and see which you prefer. I downloaded both apps to my iPhone and to an older Samsung phone and to my iPad.

 

I found that the apps seem to work better and are better laid out on the Apple product but Android users will not be losing out...its just my opinion. At the moment the consisting and speed-matching features are only available for the Apple app not Android but I'm certain an update offering those two features for the Androids will be out any day.

 

All in all the system is very good and IMHO has a huge potential if the builders follow-up and keep tweaking and improving the system.

 

These are just my personal opinions and I have absolutely no connection or financial interests in either Bachmann nor in BlueRail...I'm just a customer.

 

Cheers

Gene

[glennofootscray]

G'day All,

 

I have been an early adopter of this technology, as I have a longer term plan to automate my layout (Victoria Street), a model tramway. My idea is to program three to four of the DCC rollingstock to run end to end and have the Bluerail tram run as an extra short service from a crossover to a terminus (racecourse) and back under my control between programmed services.

 

I too are aware of the limited sound files, (diesel/steam, not traction), but I am willing to see where further developments go.

 

As previously stated there were issues with 'sensitivity and reliability', but these were mainly due to wheel and rail hygiene.

 

This new concept can open up operational opportunities during exhibitions, DCC running through or back and forth while the Bluerail can stop and start at the whim of the exhibitor when interacting with the public from front of the layout instead hiding behind out back.

 

If we are to engage the young of today into this art form, this is the way to go, because everyone has a 'controller' in their pocket.

 

Here are the linked Bluerail pages from my blog.

 

http://glennofootscray.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Bluerail

 

Regards Glenn

 

My opinions are my own.

[davetheroad]

Running reliability is improved if you include a back up battery or run on pure battery power. With a back up battery the Bluerail board will automatically switch between the two.

 

Running a 'shuttle' is available on other BPRC equipment. Deltang have 'Buffer stop', Stop and reverse' and 'station stop'. all activated by under track magnets.

[Gene]

Glenn...thanks for the input. Funny, I would have thought and hoped that the BlueRail system would be less impacted by dirty track/wheels than regular DCC....if you're correct, which I suspect you are, that could be problematic. By that I mean that if you troll through multiple forums you'll see that the clean track/wheels subject is as much an issue now as it was 10 or 20 years ago...so a system that is more sensative to dirty rails or wheels than existing DCC is actually a retrograde step IMHO., not a progressive one.

 

I don't see the limited sound files as an issue because I think it is easily solved and will change for the better in the near future. To me the bigger issue than the sound files is the sound location...ie: sound from phone rather than loco speaker. Among the reasons that I previously mentioned...with my DCC setup I can control 3 locos with the push of the recall button...one sitting idleing on a siding,one working the yard and one on the mainline...and all with the appropriate sounds emanating from them.....can't do that with the existing Blue Rail sound system.

 

I agree with you that the BlueRail is the way to tempt todays youth into the hobby...the ability to control trains with a device that virtually everybody has in their pocket is awesome.

[davetheroad]

The bluerail board is extremely sensitive to the tiniest interruption in track power. It is not just a temporary loss of command signal like in DCC it is a shutdown and reset of the receiver.. The solution is there on the board, fit a backup battery, the terminals are there to connect it to. Use a battery that gives a similar voltage to your track power for seamless instantaneous switching between the two.

 

Those battery terminal pads are difficult to get at and you have to be careful with the soldering iron. I bought the battery version of the board with leads already connected.

 

I don't think Bluerail will be adding stay alive caps or similar because they already have a superior system that allows for hybrid running, track power, battery power, or a combination of both. I think this will become the preferred solution because of the flexibility it gives. I might run BPRC (battery power radio control) and you might run TPRC (track power radio control. Same receiver, same control App!.

[Gene]

The bluerail board is extremely sensitive to the tiniest interruption in track power. It is not just a temporary loss of command signal like in DCC it is a shutdown and reset of the receiver.. The solution is there on the board, fit a backup battery, the terminals are there to connect it to. Use a battery that gives a similar voltage to your track power for seamless instantaneous switching between the two.

 

Those battery terminal pads are difficult to get at and you have to be careful with the soldering iron. I bought the battery version of the board with leads already connected.

 

I don't think Bluerail will be adding stay alive caps or similar because they already have a superior system that allows for hybrid running, track power, battery power, or a combination of both. I think this will become the preferred solution because of the flexibility it gives. I might run BPRC (battery power radio control) and you might run TPRC (track power radio control. Same receiver, same control App!.

I get it...but two things spring to mind...why have battery terminal pads at all if they are hard to get at and solder?? Seems silly to me and not user friendly.

The other problem is space...alot of locos,spce is at a premium. I can't see how to fit a battery into my Geeps.

[davetheroad]

I agree that the terminal pads would be better with something like an inline socket so if you want a battery you can just plug it in. The existing Bluerail board is enormous compared with something like a Deltang Rx which is similar in size to a DCC decoder. Bluerail have promised a smaller board

[Gene]

A socket would be nice but I'd settle for easily accessible and solderable pads.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.... Bluerail have promised a smaller board

 

 

They have also talked about a larger/higher amperage board as well.

The BlueRail Trains website has always said that they intended to produce a range of boards.

The current "Blue Horse" is only the first of these.

 

I can't find the relevant page on their web site (I think it has been deleted), that used to have a simple graphic illustrating the different types and sizes of boards they had in mind.

IIRC these included a larger board with a higher power rating, for large scale models; smaller boards for H0 & possibly N and accessory boards for turnout and accessory switching.

From a rather wooly recollection, I think they indicated something like 5 or 6 (or possibly more) different boards.

 

The web site currently states....

 

"We will release subsequent boards in alternate dimensions and suitable for other gauges in the future".

  

BlueRail’s first board targets HO steam tenders, S, On30 and lower amperage O and G trains.

A narrow board (more appropriate for for HO diesels) and a high amperage board will be released subsequently".

 

 

"Our first BlueRail board, nicknamed the Blue Horse, has a slightly wide profile (in HO terms): 58mm x 28 mm x 5 mm.

Although this board is well suited for an HO steam tender, it can be utilized any way you see fit, in any gauge train within spec.

We will release a narrower board as well as a board supporting higher amperage in the near future".

 

 

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Edited April 21, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[Nile_Griffith]

Interesting to read that people have had power issues with their Bluerail boards. 

 

At present I don't have a complete layout so most of my "running" is on a fairly haphazard layout of track and quite often gets altered depending on my curiosity. Because it's not a finished layout I'm not overly zealous about keeping the track clean. Now to date I haven't noticed any running problems with my BlueRail board. This could be down to the fact that all my Loco's have multiple pick ups on both bogies..... But it's just not a problem that I have had yet.

[Glorious NSE]

Just an additional thought - the sound files being on the handset also allows easy use of headphones.

I know it's not any good for exhibitions - but in a home environment there are advantages to that - sound levels anywhere from faint to deafening, without disturbing others...

 

[Gene]

Interesting to read that people have had power issues with their Bluerail boards. 

 

At present I don't have a complete layout so most of my "running" is on a fairly haphazard layout of track and quite often gets altered depending on my curiosity. Because it's not a finished layout I'm not overly zealous about keeping the track clean. Now to date I haven't noticed any running problems with my BlueRail board. This could be down to the fact that all my Loco's have multiple pick ups on both bogies..... But it's just not a problem that I have had yet.

I haven't had power issues for the most part...either the lights and sound are on but the loco won't accept the throttle control and just sits..its either the loco won't move, almost like the Bluetooth signal isn't being recieved by the loco-board or the oddest was no sound at all from the phone as if the sound-files had bern wiped from the phone app but the loco was answering throttle inputs and light inputs. It was bizarre. Distance isnt the problem...here is a pic of my " layout"

[Nile_Griffith]

Hey Gene!

 

The only thing I can think off and this is something we have all kind of overlooked in our discussion about the Bluetooth platform. Is what else is our smartphone/smart device doing at the same time?

 

Now yes your average iPhone has more processing power than anything that sat atop a rocket and got fired at the moon with three souls aboard. However, the programmes those early computers were running, were measured in kilo bytes and not gig's. I've notices with my own i devices that a couple of navigation apps I have downloaded are doing some serious background processing even when I am not using the app at that time. One of the other little giveaways that I've noticed is that at night like most I plug my phone into charge. Now I have one of those wall sockets with a built in USB, when power is being drawn from the USB socket a rather annoying (if it's dark and Im trying to sleep) blue light comes on. The number of times that little blue light fires up in the middle of the night is surprising. It's not just because another email has come in or there is some predictable interval where maybe the phone is just topping up the gently discharging battery. Power is obviously being consumed through processing, so whats that little flat slab up too while I'm in the land of nod???? Obviously processing power is finite and an ability to complete all the tasks being asked of the phone at the time might be compromised.

 

So I'm wondering Gene, at those times when you experiences a shortfall in either operational or sound performance, was your smart device running some other non related App in the back ground?

 

Just a thought.

[Gene]

Nile..too be honest it might be running other apps in the background..but not Bluetooth apps...the only thing I use bluetooth for is running the locos or if I need to use my phone as a hotspot. I really don't use bluetooth for anything else.

[Nile_Griffith]

Nile..too be honest it might be running other apps in the background..but not Bluetooth apps...the only thing I use bluetooth for is running the locos or if I need to use my phone as a hotspot. I really don't use bluetooth for anything else.

 

 

I think it's the multiple App running that is the question. Although you might only have one App running that is using the Bluetooth interface another two App's that maybe running in the background and unseen may well be tying up a good proportion of your smart devices processing power. I'm not up to date with mobile smart device operating systems, but I would hazard a guess that the device doesn't see any "priority" to the BlueRail app over what other background app's may or ,ay not be running, so shares it's processing power on a "best fit/quickest result" basis.

 

As said in one of my previous comments. This is possibly the biggest "downside" that the Bluetooth platform offers and something as a group we haven't ouched on. My Lenz hand controller after all, only has one job to do, whereas my smart device can at any one time have a number of job's that it is trying to do. Obviously the way to mitigate this problem is either use a redundant compatible smart device or be a bit more diligent over what your iPhone etc is up too while you're playing trains.

 

However I do still think it's a great system with massive potential.

[Gene]

Nile....that would be a huge issue...there are alot of things the end-user( me) has absolutely no control over, even if I could find them. But honestly I dont think that is the problem...but I can't be certain. On another note....I brought my two locos to the club to show the guys the system. None of them ever heard of it but they were all fascinated and 2 of the 6 really thought the system would be mainstream in a couple of years if some of the quirks could be resolved. A new issue raised its head yesterday...well 2 actually.

It appears that if other phones in the vicinty have bluetooth running in the background that it can interfere with the app. I'm not totally convinced but I think it is possible.....one of my locos would not stay connected to the app at all...one guy had bluetooth on on his phone and when he turned the bluetooth off the problem went away. Which is sort of connected to your comment above. The odder issue was the locos fighting against each other while consisted together. They would consist together on the app but when trying to move they would try to go in opposite directions...if I seperated them by an inch they would both go forward together, if i pushed the rear one forward to couple together while already running they would function properly...but if they stopped, at a station, and then tried to move off together they would be fighting each other in opposite directions. Totally bizarre.

[Nile_Griffith]

Nile....that would be a huge issue...there are alot of things the end-user( me) has absolutely no control over, even if I could find them. But honestly I dont think that is the problem...but I can't be certain. On another note....I brought my two locos to the club to show the guys the system. None of them ever heard of it but they were all fascinated and 2 of the 6 really thought the system would be mainstream in a couple of years if some of the quirks could be resolved. A new issue raised its head yesterday...well 2 actually.

It appears that if other phones in the vicinty have bluetooth running in the background that it can interfere with the app. I'm not totally convinced but I think it is possible.....one of my locos would not stay connected to the app at all...one guy had bluetooth on on his phone and when he turned the bluetooth off the problem went away. Which is sort of connected to your comment above. The odder issue was the locos fighting against each other while consisted together. They would consist together on the app but when trying to move they would try to go in opposite directions...if I seperated them by an inch they would both go forward together, if i pushed the rear one forward to couple together while already running they would function properly...but if they stopped, at a station, and then tried to move off together they would be fighting each other in opposite directions. Totally bizarre.

 

 

Must admit you have me on the consisting thing. Nothing springs to mind as to why the loco's would want to behave in such a way. Might I suggest dropping a line to Dave Rees at blueRail trains. I must admit in the communications I've had with him he has always been very welcoming of any comments or feedback and I'm sure something like that would get their curiosity.

 

As for other bluetooth enabled phones running in the background interfering with your loco's performance, I'm not so sure. Bluetooth uses unique addressing to communicate between devices and those unique addresses run into the billions. devices are paired with another device by recognising, authenticating and remembering the unique address of each other. Now whether someone has an App running that is miss behaving shall we say and trying to poll your BlueRail train (asking it's identity and trying to pair with it) while you are using it, might be closer to the problem. I think and don't hold me to this. App protocol requires the smart device user to tell the App which bluetooth enabled device they want their App to pair with via their smartphone (usually from a list). So potentially if some other person using that smart device is constantly instructing their non Bluerail/Bachmann App to pair with your Bluerail loco, then just perhaps that might be enough to disturb it. But an App that is trying to pair with a device automatically because it is in range for example (like the audio system in my car), should only do so when it "Hears" that unique address being broadcast across the Bluetooth network by the hardwares Bluetooth chip it has previously paired with............... If that makes sense.

[davetheroad]

Bluerail suggest turning off the auto pairing option in a multi control app environment. You will then have to select the loco to add it to your 'playlist' and release it if you want to make it available to other users. You could try that.

 

thinks - Are you running the Bachmann Ez app and the bluerail app at the same time?

[Gene]

Bluerail suggest turning off the auto pairing option in a multi control app environment. You will then have to select the loco to add it to your 'playlist' and release it if you want to make it available to other users. You could try that.

 

thinks - Are you running the Bachmann Ez app and the bluerail app at the same time?

Dave...no I only use the BlueRail app...it seems to be the better app so I actually don't even have the E-Z app on my phone.

I'm going to the club again tomorrow so I'll test it again and be sure to have the auto-pairing option turned-off. I teally can't remember if it was on or off at the club on Sunday, when I was having these issues.

 

Nile...thanks for the input....I'll run some more tests at the club tomorrow and then report back here and to Dave Rees at BlueRail.

 

Cheers

Gene

[Ron Ron Ron]

Here's neat idea.

Shame about the price though.

$259.00 !!!!!!

 

DIY versions using a phone case or bumper will work out a lot cheaper.

 

 

 

 

http://wrist-rack.com/wrist-rack-trains/

 

 

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