BlueRail Trains - Bluetooth Locomotive Control

[glennofootscray]

G'day All,

 

As part of my blog I have included the introduction of Bluerail to Victoria Street.

(The last third of the post)

 

http://glennofootscray.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/there-is-always-something-on-go.html

 

Regards Glenn

[Nile_Griffith]

It's arrived!!!!!!!!

 

Fab service from Coastal DCC. Arrived within twenty four hours and a good selection of NEM adaptors!

 

Not sure if I'll get a chance to install into a loco today but maybe tomorrow. Hope to report results soon.

[davetheroad]

I ordered a couple of battery power boards and harnesses today from coastal DCC which I intend to evaluate in both steam and diesel locos. The current board design is large so for steam I am going to put the board and batteries in a corridor brake 3rd coach attached to my Hornby tender drive Princess 4-6-2 loco. For the modern loco I am looking for a second hand one with lots of space inside the body. Apparently a lot of Hornby locos have motorised bogie drive so I suppose any of those will do although I do like the look of a class 37.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If you want really cheap for a trial run with a barn of space inside, Mainline Peak, Joueff class 40, Triang-Hornby 47 or 101, Airfix 31, or bigger Lima types should all answer, patient fishing around should bring one in for under £15. These will give the control capability a good work out as the motors are dated; and have indifferent or worse pick up as supplied so likely to be significantly improved in 'constant power availability' if battery power is installed.

 

Guess I am going to be waiting a while yet for a board+battery equipe to easily fit an OO loco like the Peckett, which is the sort of size machine I want running on rusty and overgrown rails.

 

 

...As part of my blog I have included the introduction of Bluerail to Victoria Street...
 

 Tangential, but in case you have not spotted it; the split plastic axle and gear at the RHS of the pic of the installed board will be the cause of the lumpy running when that becomes apparent...

[glennofootscray]

Yes, I am aware of the split gear assembly on the right hand side of the board in the picture, this is the unpowered bogie of the tram.

 

The tram runs quite, even better now that I discovered that the ten pin socket on the lower left hand side was occasionally snagging on the road service, thus stalling and shutting down. This issue has been rectified, as I stated, there is a learning curve when it comes to new technology, and as it has been pointed out, these boards/decoders are quite massive compared to contemporary DCC, but remember this is a first generation realease of this technology, so in time the size will decrease.

 

I live by the motto, the day you stop learning, is the day you stop breathing.

 

Regards Glenn.

Edited September 28, 2016 by glennofootscray

[davetheroad]

The bluerail boards arrived today, impressive as I only ordered yesterday. My first impression is they are huge, the smaller board in the photo is one of my Deltang receivers I use in my other locos. Bluerail need to shrink the footprint a lot. Luckily the board just fits in the coach I will be using. Next I need to build the battery voltage regulator bits. I intend to use a Pololu 12V booster with a 2S 7.4V Lipo battery.

 

[davetheroad]

G'day All,

 

As part of my blog I have included the introduction of Bluerail to Victoria Street.

(The last third of the post)

 

http://glennofootscray.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/there-is-always-something-on-go.html

 

Regards Glenn

 

Nice blog!. I notice you mention the board shuts down if there is any power disruption however small. On the bluerail site they say if you connect a battery this will take over automatically if the track power is disrupted. This does not help you much as there is no space for the batteries and associated circuitry.

 

I intend to operate at 12V, actually from a battery as my layout is all deadrail. However if I was running from track power I would still install a small capacity battery so I have the equivalent of DCC stay alive. If the loco was drawing 0.5A a pair of 100mAh batteries should theoretically give you about 20 minutes of power disruption protection.

 

I think it is a good idea to buy the battery version with the extra leads as it avoids all those soldering problems.

[hobbyhorse]

I've had a chance to test one of my 7mm loco with the board just running off the battery. On my test bed it ran for 4 hours then shut down, on Bucks Hill hauling a good load it ran for well over an hour with no sign of battery power reduction, I had to stop to let others the chance to run there stock. For my application with 16mm garden rail these are perfect, and with other updates in the pipeline these are a game changer.

 

 

Simon

[Removed a/c]

So if I am reading this correctly I can still maintain my Dynamis system, fit one of their DCC chips into a loco and use the app on my phone to control it? As well as still being able to use the Dynamis for non converted stock? 

[Nile_Griffith]

So if I am reading this correctly I can still maintain my Dynamis system, fit one of their DCC chips into a loco and use the app on my phone to control it? As well as still being able to use the Dynamis for non converted stock? 

 

 

The BlueRail App only controls a BlueRail De-coder board installed into your loco. That Loco can then be run on a DCC powered track, In your case a track powered by a Dynamis system. The Dynamis system can't control the BlueRail fitted Loco and the BlueRail App can't control any DCC fitted Loco's run simultaneously on the same layout. But you can "Mix and Match" the DCC fitted and BlueRail fitted Loco's run on your  DCC powered layout so to speak. This means you don't have to do an expensive wholesale swap from one system to another.

[Removed a/c]

The BlueRail App only controls a BlueRail De-coder board installed into your loco. That Loco can then be run on a DCC powered track, In your case a track powered by a Dynamis system. The Dynamis system can't control the BlueRail fitted Loco and the BlueRail App can't control any DCC fitted Loco's run simultaneously on the same layout. But you can "Mix and Match" the DCC fitted and BlueRail fitted Loco's run on your  DCC powered layout so to speak. This means you don't have to do an expensive wholesale swap from one system to another.

Thanks, I knew that each system wouldn't control the others decoders. Just wondered if I could use both systems at the same time on the same track. Each system controlling their own chips. 

 

Maybe have to have a look into it then  

[Nile_Griffith]

Thanks, I knew that each system wouldn't control the others decoders. Just wondered if I could use both systems at the same time on the same track. Each system controlling their own chips. 

 

Maybe have to have a look into it then

 

Hi There!

 

Did a quick test with My Lenz DCC system on an oval of track. A bit of a crude lash up with the new BlueRail de-coder board on a Bachman Class 85. But ran all three flavours on the oval with no problem. The aforementioned Bachmann Cl 85 with the Bluetooth board. A Lenz Gold fitted Heljan Cl 47 and an unfitted (DC) Heljan DPU (using the Lenz address 0000). All three Loco's sat on the oval at same time.

 

I might re do the test and post some video ion it if I get the time.

 

What I have found quite nifty is how quick I can bounce between Bluetooth control devices. For example I have at hand a iPhone 6S Plus, a couple of iPhone 5's and iPad version2 and an iPad Pro (yes I'm a bit Appled out here). All of them have the BlueRail App loaded and it really is a matter of closing the App on the one device, opening the App up on the other and letting the App find the Loco. I only have the one board at the moment (really should have been brave and ordered three) so can't answer for how easy it is for one device to give up control of a loco to another. But I have to say it certainly makes inviting friends around with potentially their own BlueRail fitted Loco's or sharing operation of your own fleet of Bluerail fitted loco's a very simple task. Definitely a whole lot less heartache then anything I can see possible with DCC. (Great idea for Grand Kids, nieces and nephews. They can get their sticky little fingers all over their own smartphone rather than dropping, scratching and clattering your own lovingly cared for device).

 

The one thing that is a bit sluggish and a possible "chink" in the BlueRail armour is the sound. At present I can route sound from my controlling iPhone or iPad to my AppleTV box. This then outputs the loco audio to a pair of active speakers that are plugged into the Apple TV box. I can only pair one device to the Apple TV at a time. Fine if I only have one Bluetooth device controlling loco's, but if I have two devices controlling two individual loco's I can't pair both devices to a single Apple TV box and therefore hear both Loco's. In this situation I would need a separate Apple TV to receive the Bluetooth audio for each controlling device and a small audio mixer or summing device to create a "Mix" to feed to the speakers each side of the layout. 

 

I should say that you aren't tied to pairing the audio from the BlueRail App to only an Apple TV device. As long as your own controlling smart phone will pair with a bluetooth audio device you should be fine. Its just that as said...... I'm a bit Apple'd out here......... possibly more Apples than Bulmers.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[Removed a/c]

Thanks for the information, think I may need to take the plunge and order me a chip to see !  

[Nile_Griffith]

OK kids!! Here goes!!

 

Well the usual best laid plans of mice and men has somewhat gone to the wall a little. A rather chaotic week with family issues means that my intended demo videos have fallen by the wayside so please excuse the rather crude photo's supporting my observations.

 

After excited anticipation this week I finally got my sticky paws on BlueRail's much anticipated (by me at least) Locomotive bluetooth de-coder board (cue stock BBC sound effects "Hurrah"). All credit goes to Coastal DCC for supplying the de-coder board and an additional wiring harness exceedingly quickly and all at very attractive postal rates. I'd never come across them before as a company, but must say that after this transaction alone I would thoroughly recommend them....... Top marks!!!

 

Right first things first. The board itself. To paraphrase Benny Hill's character Proffesor Simon Peach in the film "The Italian Job". It's Big! Its very Big! Being honest this is possibly only real misgiving about the new Blue Horse board that I have.

 

 

The photo shows the BlueRail board on the bottom along with the wiring harness needed to allow the board to plug into a 21 pin NEM socket. Coastal DCC do have shorter harnesses available, but when you compare the BlueRail board with a fairly standard Lenz Silver+ de-coder above placed just above the harness, you can see just how much bigger the BlueRail board is. So lets get to the bad news first. There are going to be quite a few modern OO gauge models that this de-coder just isn't going to fit into and those ones that it does fit into, that will more than likely require a bit more fettling than a lot of modellers are going to feel happy with carrying out........ and thats a bit of a shame really.

 

I have to say I had originally wanted to fit the board inside of a Bachmann Class 85 and indeed my initial tests were with the board hanging of the motor chassis, so to speak. But there was no way it was ever going to fit within the body and indeed it wasn't going to fit inside the body of a Bachmann Class 47 either. In the end I opted for installing the board inside of a Bachman MLV. Not really an ideal choice of test locomotive as there is no cab lighting for me to check out the BlueRail boards accessory connections. But I make the point about size as BlueRail is supposed to have developed this product in co-operation with Bachmann themselves and one would assume that both parties might have discussed the matter of physical size. Considering pre-installed loco's are available for sale from Bachmann in the states and in the slightly smaller HO scale. BlueRail must be capable of producing a smaller size board.

 

.

 

If there is one extra comment about the BlueRail board physically, it is this. There is on the board a green surface mount LED that springs into life once the board is powered and operational. When installing and testing this is a very neat feature, especially when compared to a lot of DCC de-coders that just sit there looking blank when you apply DCC track power to them. How many of us have wondered whether we have soldered a contact correctly or got a plug on the wrong way round when fitting a new DCC de-coder? The flashing green LED is a welcome re-assurance that all is OK with the board and connections. For most installations that little green blinking light shouldn't present any problems while the board is hidden away within the Loco body, but in the case of my Bachmann MLV it did require the application of a little "blanking" to stop an eery green light flashing away within the luggage van itself.

 

 

 

So apart from size, how does the board match up to the promise? Well all in all I'm very pleased with it. Performance is certainly on a par with any of my DCC installed loco's. Whether my BlueRail'd MLV is operated on a DC or DCC track, either alone or alongside another DC or DCC operated Loco, everything works tickets boo. So a tick in the box there. The App itself runs well on both iPhone and iPad (sorry I don't have any Android devices to test with). An "auto connect" option within the App means that any board fitted inside of a powered Loco will be "discovered"by the App and shown on the App's home screen ready for you to select when the App is opened. In fact the App itself is reasonably fool proof on all levels. If you are looking for something Hi-Tech and just that little bit wizzzy you might feel a little let down. The main operating screen of the App is fairly simply laid out and being honest, it really doesn't need to be all that cluttered. The App gives you a variety of different visual layout styles to choose from and although a bit comic book in look, will probably appeal to most users.

 

 

I'm not going to go into every nuance of using App. Why? Well you would have nothing to look forward to if you decide to buy your own BlueRail boards if I did!! However one of the questions being asked of this new type of model locomotive control, is how well can you fine tune the motor control to suit your own individual model loco's requirements. We'll the answer is very well and certainly comparable to DCC. The settings menu (thats accessed by the cog at the bottom of the operating screen), gives you the option to enter a name for the Loco, there plenty of room for a full Loco name and it's Tops number if necessary (A real plus point if like me you are currently using a Lenz system of four digits!!!!). The App provides sound, however this sound is derived from the smartphone itself (more on that later) but within the settings menu you can choose between a diesel or steam sound scheme.  You can also define acceleration and deceleration characteristics, set a top speed, denoted by the loco either being a shunter, freight loco, passenger loco, or just left as being able to run at the models own maximum speed. In the advanced Settings you get to pay around with speed steps, start voltages and a few other things. Direction swap is there for those "Back to front" moments and also the ability to turn on a further "Fine Tuning" menu and the the option to disable the "Stop on disconnect" function of the App (useful if you want to hand over control of a running Loco to another smart device while the Loco is travelling around your layout). All of this is achieved with smart phone simplicity. Not a CV in sight. Settings are achieved by selecting option buttons or sliding a pointer along a scale. For anyone who enjoys the control of DCC but lives in fear of making adjustments via the myriad of cv's then this is a real bonus when compared to some DCC set ups that require you to numerically adjust values described by CV numbers rather than by logical described functions!!

 

 

The picture above shows a little bit of the flexibility available to the use of a smart phone as your throttle/controller. my iPad is connected to my AppleTV and my TV Screen is mirroring what is on the the screen of my iPad. This sort of feature isn't just available to Apple products, many android smart phones are capable of the same with a suitably equipped screen.

 

Going back to the adjustment thing, there is a "Fine Tune" option that can be activated as an option within the advanced settings menu. Selected this adds an extra icon to the main control page (a tuning fork icon appears in the left hand side of the screen) opening this icon within the main operating screen gives you access to further tweaks!!! Again without a CV or the requirement for table of numeric values in sight.

 

 

Lighting control is fairly predictable. The main control screen offers a main headlight on off button. However to the left of the scree is a headlight icon. Open this up and you get access to various lighting options. Again, no CV's to confuse the issue. A simple slide setting allows you to tailor brightness and you can even edit the name of the button, useful as you will see following.

 

 

Looking at the screen above you will see that the main head lighting lives on the Aux1 output of the board or "Acc1" as BlueRail like to call it. Clicking on any or all of the other Accessory buttons will bring up their options also.

 

 

 

What I think is great is that you can give these accessory functions a real world name, as mentioned I use a Lenz system for DCC so with this set up I don't have to remember that F2 on one of my loco's turns on the cab lights but its F3 on another. Opening the headlight option for the loco being controlled at the time will show you what each function relates to and allow you to easily select the appropriate function.

 

OK Sound. First of I'm not a fan of modelled sound, so lets get that clear. However I do believe that over time this part of bluetooth's functionality with the right development might offer some worthwhile features and benefits. However.... Sound is directly played from the App via the smartphone or tablet you are using to control your locos. I only have one BlueRail fitted loco at present so I can not answer as to whether the App is happy to play the sounds from multiple Loco's being controlled simultaneously. The App itself offers some very generic U.S. style diesel and Steam sounds. How authentic sounding these are I can not comment on. But true to form the App gives you a degree of customisation as to the types and levels of sounds played back as and when control parameters are changed or when you just feel the need to keep pressing that horn button.............. and the temptation is to do it a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As said, sound is played back from the controlling smart device and there is no provision to connect a speaker to the installed bluetooth board and fitted within the loco. However... your smart device can link to either a Bluetooth compatible speaker, or in my case, via Airplay to my AppleTV box (which in turn is connected to an amplifier and speakers......... I told you sounding that horn could get addictive)

 

 

The screen shot gives an idea of the range of sounds available and again the CV' less ability to control them and to do it on the fly also!!

 

 

 

The installed board retains all changes in non volatile memory, so there should be no need to re enter individual parameters each time you put your loco onto the track. In multiple mode the main screen allows you to access the throttles of the locos active on your layout. As yet I haven't been able to try this out.

 

 

Conclusions.  Operationally the board has done everything that BlueRail has said that it would. My test Loco has operated as well as any of my DCC fitted loco's on both a DC powered track and a DCC powered layout and when run in combination with other DCC loco's. Operating range certainly hasn't been a problem and similarly interference from other bluetooth or wifi devices has not been an issue (even after firing up some quite questionable bluetooth devices in proximity).

 

The big one is the "Big" factor. The current board really is just to large for most modern chassis blocked  OO gauge Loco's and you can kiss the idea goodbye if you wanted to put it into an 08 shunter. That said, this is the first in the range and I would guess that new smaller format boards are not all that far away.

 

I have had a couple of operating bugs with the App and I'm going to report these back to BlueRail, but nothing damaging or disastrous. For those of you interest in sound, one problem I have picked up is that of delay. If I route the audio from the App via my AppleTV unit and into a pair of speakers I get about a two thirds second delay in sounding the horn and actually hearing it. My guess is that this is down to the inner workings (and licensing) of the AppleTV, but it's something I want to check up on with BlueRail as I think it's an important feature.

 

Its worth remembering that at DCC's first appearance the range of de-coder boards and hardware was very different to to what we see today. So to expect BlueRail to bring a new innovation to market and for it to meet DCC head to head so to speak is a tall ask of anyone. That said I do feel that this is, to use the vernacular, a game changing product. For anyone looking to get into DCC or anyone who feels overwhelmed by it but wants the control. It really is a no brainer.

 

My Brother in law visited and was immediately grinning when being handed an iPhone and told to go play trains.

 

Just need those smaller boards

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[davetheroad]

Excellent report and I am glad I won't have to repeat a lot of it. I am taking a different approach as my layout is deadrail so I have just taken delivery of 2 of the battery versions of the board. They arrived from CoastalDCC the day after ordering along with two 8 pin wiring harnesses. If you want one you better hurry as there are not many left in stock or so it appears. I will be using an Android tablet.

 

I intend to test the boards with a tender drive Hornby Princess Royal which means putting the bits in a brake coach and, although my layout is early BR steam an early cheapo Hornby green class 55 Deltic. As this has a motor bogie there is a vast amount of space inside for all the bits and it is DCC ready. I will try the Deltic first and hopefully it will arrive Tuesday.

[Nile_Griffith]

Excellent report and I am glad I won't have to repeat a lot of it. I am taking a different approach as my layout is deadrail so I have just taken delivery of 2 of the battery versions of the board. They arrived from CoastalDCC the day after ordering along with two 8 pin wiring harnesses. If you want one you better hurry as there are not many left in stock or so it appears. I will be using an Android tablet.

 

I intend to test the boards with a tender drive Hornby Princess Royal which means putting the bits in a brake coach and, although my layout is early BR steam an early cheapo Hornby green class 55 Deltic. As this has a motor bogie there is a vast amount of space inside for all the bits and it is DCC ready. I will try the Deltic first and hopefully it will arrive Tuesday.

 

 

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Sorry that it was a bit rushed. I would have liked to add some video showing how well the BlueRail board controls the Loco at slow speed on a DCC layout alongside a similar DCC equipped model. Would have been good also to show how quick it is to move control of a loco from iPhone to another device.

 

I have had a couple of messages from other members asking if I could add more to what I thought were any down sides to the new board. My only real criticism is that of the current boards physical  size. Not a problem for O'gauge (so long as your loco is within the current limits of the board) and useable for a number of OO' gauge models also, but it's a tight fit and I could certainly see it be a struggle to find room for one in some of the more recent releases.

 

A minor criticism would be the control surface "Skin" as the developers like to call it. I mentioned that the look of the App is a little bit comic book and although it doesn't detract from the functionality of the App in any way, it is a little "Toy Town" looking, which for some folks might be off putting enough not to give the product a go.

 

The board/system does excel in sheer simplicity. I have a Lenz DCC system so not as user friendly or visually attractive as some other DCC systems, but possibly one of the most reliable and rock solid set ups out there. The BlueRail boards performance to my mind matched my Lenz system (all my loco's are fitted with either Lenz Siver or Gold boards) both in control and responsiveness. However to enjoy DCC type control and functionality with the Bluerail product all I needed was an oval of track. A cheap Hornby power pack (with the knob turned right up to maximum) and a suitable iPhone with the BlueRail App loaded. Oh and quite obviously a model loco with a Bluerail board installed. I can fully name my Loco for easy identity, turn light on or off, have excellent slow speed control, modify acceleration and deceleration speeds and even do a bit of fine tuning of the motors performance. All without having a sheet full of CV values nearby and stepping through less than obvious menus. Where I see the real advantage is when it comes to adding guest loco's and their operators to your layout. No need to make sure there aren't any DCC address clashes, no expensive extra hand throttles to purchase. Just so long as you have a spare iPhone, iPad, or android phone/tablet to hand your up and running in pretty much the time it takes to download the App. AND NO WIRES!!

 

What will be interesting is to see who gets on board in the future. I'd love to see a control program available for laptop. Seeming as so many laptops have bluetooth as standard it would be the next logical step in my view.

 

Hope you enjoy yourself with your own BlueRail testing.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There's definitely an opportunity to write a superior control interface speifically for any given traction type.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115520-dcc-controller-with-coast-and-brake/

Those such as the OP in the thread link wanting a seperate velocitator and deceleratrix, are presently only served in DCC control by the otherwise severly hampered ZTC. But a s/w interface could provide this with none of the inconvenience. One could add the option of a reverser that mimics a steam loco reverser's action too...

[Nile_Griffith]

There's definitely an opportunity to write a superior control interface speifically for any given traction type.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115520-dcc-controller-with-coast-and-brake/

Those such as the OP in the thread link wanting a seperate velocitator and deceleratrix, are presently only served in DCC control by the otherwise severly hampered ZTC. But a s/w interface could provide this with none of the inconvenience. One could add the option of a reverser that mimics a steam loco reverser's action too...

 

 

As far as I am aware BlueRail are happy to make their bluetooth control system open source. So any RMWebbers out there with a firm grasp on programming for electric motor control in either iOS, Android or Mac OS Windows platforms even. Would possibly find an interested ear.

[Nile_Griffith]

Hi again!

 

Today I dropped a line to Dave Rees at BlueRail. Over the last few months Dave has been very helpful with further information about the new boards and how things were going with availability in the UK. I know the BlueRail guys have been looking at the forum and I just wanted to check in with them that they felt my review of the Blue Horse board wasn't unfair.

 

In true BlueRail form Dave has come back to me with some further information about the new Blue Horse control board that I think maybe helpful to some modellers and of interest to all. So please find a copy of part of the conversation below.

 

The main thing in the board is the 17mm x 17mm Rigado bluetooth module. That's where all the firmware lives and everything happens. The vast majority of the rest of the board exists because we support DC power - that's something Bachmann really wanted. Users might live in an old house with ancient wiring, and use dirty old transformers to power their track, and that power can contain nasty spikes that can damage a microprocessor. So we have circuitry in the board to smooth out the signal and give the module clean power. If we made a version of the board that didn't support DC, and required either DCC power (or a "clean" power supply) the board could be much smaller. This is why DCC decoders can be small, because DCC power has already been cleaned up (and all the spikes have been removed). Also, Rigado is close to releasing a bluetooth module that is half the size of the current one (and supports 12 simultaneous accessories). So a variation of the board that assumes clean power in exchange for significantly smaller size is planned.

 

As said I hope that this will be of interest to those regularly following this topic and anyone new to thread considering using the new Bluetooth boards. Thanks again to Dave Rees at BlueRail for the info and for giving his permission for me to share it with you.

[davetheroad]

Thanks for the information Nile. I took a look at the Rigado site and that 350 module is very small and powerful so hopefully there will be a smaller board produced in due course. I presume of course that batteries provide clean power?

 

Maybe the size of the board also had something to do with Bachmann and Bluerail being in the USA.  If you take the UK loading gauge of say 8 feet at 00 scale that is 32mm and the USA loading gauge of say 10.5 feet at HO scale is 36mm. The board is slightly too wide to fit in 7 of the 22 locos I have tried and that might be due to it being designed for the USA market!.

 

I had a quick test session this afternoon on my rolling road with an old Bachmann controller set to 12V. It was interesting to see that although you could use the board with DC power you could not have a DC loco and a Bluerail sharing the same layout. If you turned down the power to slow the DC loco the Bluerail one slowed as well.

 

The Android app is not complete either but as there Is so much stuff there it could take some time to sort it all out. There is not much information on the bluerail site about what all these advanced options etc do. I think we need some written explanations?

 

I have already started a wish list :-

 

item 1 - onboard battery voltage monitoring with an app warning when the voltage falls too low and it is time to recharge the batteries. My Deltang units have a similar feature with the option to use with voltage regulators, monitoring the input voltage of the regulator before it is boosted. My workaround will be to use an audible battery alarm which then cuts the power if the voltage of one of the lipo cells drops below 3.3V, however this is a bulky item. This is also relevant to the need for a 'stay alive' capability if you are using DC or DCC power.

[Nile_Griffith]

Thanks for the information Nile. I took a look at the Rigado site and that 350 module is very small and powerful so hopefully there will be a smaller board produced in due course. I presume of course that batteries provide clean power?

 

Maybe the size of the board also had something to do with Bachmann and Bluerail being in the USA.  If you take the UK loading gauge of say 8 feet at 00 scale that is 32mm and the USA loading gauge of say 10.5 feet at HO scale is 36mm. The board is slightly too wide to fit in 7 of the 22 locos I have tried and that might be due to it being designed for the USA market!.

 

I had a quick test session this afternoon on my rolling road with an old Bachmann controller set to 12V. It was interesting to see that although you could use the board with DC power you could not have a DC loco and a Bluerail sharing the same layout. If you turned down the power to slow the DC loco the Bluerail one slowed as well.

 

The Android app is not complete either but as there Is so much stuff there it could take some time to sort it all out. There is not much information on the bluerail site about what all these advanced options etc do. I think we need some written explanations?

 

I have already started a wish list :-

 

item 1 - onboard battery voltage monitoring with an app warning when the voltage falls too low and it is time to recharge the batteries. My Deltang units have a similar feature with the option to use with voltage regulators, monitoring the input voltage of the regulator before it is boosted. My workaround will be to use an audible battery alarm which then cuts the power if the voltage of one of the lipo cells drops below 3.3V, however this is a bulky item. This is also relevant to the need for a 'stay alive' capability if you are using DC or DCC power.

 

 

Hi Dave!

 

Good point about U.S. HO loading gauge. In my original comments about the smaller HO gauge I was thinking very much on European lines and as you rightly mention the U.S. loading gauge is a good deal larger.

 

You are quite right about the DC thing. Again I kind of rushed my write up and didn't fully explain how I did my appraisal with both locos. Pity I didn't get the time to shoot some video, it might well have refreshed my thinking.

 

I haven't used the Android App myself but have been aware from BlueRail's updates that its a step or two behind the Apple version. It might be an idea to drop Dave Rees at BlueRail trains a line or two with your thoughts with regard to the battery warnings idea. They seem like a good bunch of guys to deal with.

 

As regards the advanced settings menu, did you spot this link on their website? I found it by accident.

 

http://bluerailtrains.com/2016/06/11/tuning-locos-and-the-advanced-tuning-panel/

 

Must admit I'm certainly looking forward to the smaller boards, just need to type up my eBay listing for my Lenz DCC set up....... Ha Ha Ha!

Edited October 7, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The main thing in the board is the 17mm x 17mm Rigado bluetooth module. That's where all the firmware lives and everything happens. The vast majority of the rest of the board exists because we support DC power - that's something Bachmann really wanted. Users might live in an old house with ancient wiring, and use dirty old transformers to power their track, and that power can contain nasty spikes that can damage a microprocessor. So we have circuitry in the board to smooth out the signal and give the module clean power. If we made a version of the board that didn't support DC, and required either DCC power (or a "clean" power supply) the board could be much smaller. This is why DCC decoders can be small, because DCC power has already been cleaned up (and all the spikes have been removed). Also, Rigado is close to releasing a bluetooth module that is half the size of the current one (and supports 12 simultaneous accessories). So a variation of the board that assumes clean power in exchange for significantly smaller size is planned.

 

 That makes complete sense in the context of a USA based development. You seem to have an 'in' with them, perhaps a brief explanation of the high integrity domestic power supply in Europe might help speed them to a 'clean power assumed' version?

[Richard Lee]

 That makes complete sense in the context of a USA based development. You seem to have an 'in' with them, perhaps a brief explanation of the high integrity domestic power supply in Europe might help speed them to a 'clean power assumed' version?

I believe that the UK power supply is not too bad, but the supply to Bulgarian villages can be a little more "interesting".  One village fairly nearby has high voltage normally, and also violent spikes during thunder storms that can knock out the special extension cables that are supposed to get rid of spikes, and also the that was computer plugged in to it.

 

Where I live isn't quite so bad (I think), but nervousness about power supply knocking out DCC controllers has helped me decide to remain DC for now, for layout control.

[Nile_Griffith]

 That makes complete sense in the context of a USA based development. You seem to have an 'in' with them, perhaps a brief explanation of the high integrity domestic power supply in Europe might help speed them to a 'clean power assumed' version?

 

 

 

I get the impression that BlueRail are already very aware that for European modellers "size matters" (ooooooooooo'errrrrrrrrr) and that there will be a new smaller version of the board available fitted with the new Rigado Bluetooth chip in the not too distant. That said I would guess that it will be made clear by BlueRail that these boards will only be advised for use on layouts with conditioned DC power. Maybe there will be a use for the power transformer of my old Lenz DCC set after all.

 

I will however pass on your thoughts. Mind you it's a bit unfair of us to assume that all of our colonial cousins have to battle with inferior electricity generation and supply...... Ha Ha Ha!

[davetheroad]

IS HYBRID POWER THE FUTURE FOR LOCOMOTIVE CONTROL?

 

I have just started evaluating the Bluerail Bluehorse board and it has an intriguing feature. It can take power either from the track or a battery and there are separate inputs for both. The track power can be either plain DC or DCC. The battery power is of course DC. The interesting bit is you can have both power sources attached at the same time and normally the board will take its power from the track. If the track power is interrupted it immediately takes power from the battery. If the track power is restored it switches back to that. Of course you can miss out the track connection and run deadrail.

 

In essence the battery is a substitute for the 'stay alive' capacitors that a DCC decoder can use to deal with power interruptions. The differences are the battery does not recharge after use but can provide power for a much greater length of poor track.....as I lost the finished version of this text the following is abridged - grrh!

 

One of my standard configurations uses a 400mAh battery to give about 1 hour of deadrail running. If 1% of a layout had bad track my battery would last 100 hours as a stay alive.

 

How about hybrid running? If all the turnouts, turntables, reversing loops etc, all the complicated bits of a DC or DCC layout were deadrail the rest could be simple power feeds. If 20% of the track was deadrail my 1 hour battery life would become 5 hours. Actually it will be more as that 5 hours is what you would get if a single axle on the loco was picking up current. Multiple axles could shorten the deadrail to an apparent 4% so I can now get 20 hours running out of my battery.

 

This hybrid system could please deadrailers, DC people and DCC fans

.

Problems - The Bluerail Bluehorse board has the magic switch to handle the switching but so far seems to have no way to monitor the battery voltage including with use of a battery booster. My Deltang Rx boards have the battery monitoring feature but no magic switch.

 

Are these 'magic' switches available?

 

I have emailed a question to Bluerail.

ps - don't intend to convert my 30 Deltang locos back to track power as they work well.