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kirtleypete

Saltdean - LBSCR in 0 gauge

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The weathered planked surface effect on the wagons & container takes this technique beyond old style printed lithos. I particularly like the Saltdean beer van. The layout overall is inspirational, I learn a lot from seeing what Pete is doing.

 

Dava

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This is what Peco would have done in the 1906's if they'd had our technology.  I find the computer is as useful as my scalpel and cutting mat as a modelling tool these days. 

 

Peter

Edited by kirtleypete

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A big difference is being able to do it yourself, opening up massive possibilities compared to the limited range that was available in the local model shop. I doubt that few, if any, 1950/60s modellers could match the quality that's now possible when they scratchbuilt in card. We also have access to all sorts of other technologies that can be used with it.

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Gosh - I'm enjoying this thread Peter! I've always loved the 'Brighton line' (and late Victorian/Edwardian trains) and find this all very inspiring. Your comment regarding the colour of the D1 is interesting. I wonder if that is why some of the pictures of the anticipated Dapol terrier look 'wrong' and too yellow? Maybe the 'improved engine green' is a tricky colour to register?  Looking forward to seeing the passenger stock. I hope someone is going to produce some RTR passenger stock, given the interest Dapol has - and will - create.

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A word on typography: a lot, but by no means all, of the readily available fonts were designed during and after the 1930's. If you want to retain true to period aesthetics a little typographic research is necessary. For example, Helvetica on which Arial is closely based was designed in 1957.

Edited by Anglian

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I'm afraid life is too short to get involved into reseach about fonts - I've got a layout to finish by next Easter!  You have to draw the line somewhere or nothing gets built. 

 

I saw the pre production Terrier at Alexandra Palace and my first reaction was that it was too yellow, but it depends on the lighting in the hall and it was the pre production model. My second reaction was that I wanted one, whatever colour it was!

Peter

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I bought some trees at Perth show at the weekend to put around the station area; as the station has only been open for eight years or so small trees meant for 4mm scale are just right. I sprayed some with Photofix and sprinkled on some Greenscene scatter as blossom to add a touch of colour...the layout is meant to be in May so I had to resist the lovely apple tree with a full set of fruit. 

 

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It's amazing how all the coal merchants in the area seem to share the names of well known locomotive designers! I bought a Peco yard crane for this area but it's much too big and too modern looking so I'll use a different one. It needs more carts too. 

 

One final picture; no trees but just because it's nice.

 

19301303335_e36e0db9e7_c.jpg

 

Peter

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While I was working on the wagons and D1 I pretty much convinced myself that printed paper wasn't going to be much use for coaches. Then I put together a Roxey Stroudley full brake:

 

19464653271_a202d77a00_c.jpg

 

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten the wheels, they should arrive tomorrow!

 

I wanted to finish it in varnished teak. The Brighton outshopped their coaches in varnished teak and then after a dozen years or so when they were starting to look grubby they painted them in a colour very similar to the teak and they remained painted until they were scrapped. 

 

With a layout set in about 1890 I thought that most of my coaches should still be teak, they wouldn't be old enough to have been painted. I sprayed the full brake with Railmatch dark rust and then brushed on light rust, trying to make the paint look like grain in the wood. It doesn't; not surprisingly the paint does what it is designed to do and covers the surface and then dries. The colour looks right, but it doesn't look like varnished teak....for a later painted coach it would be fine.

 

So, you won't be surprised to hear that I turned to printed paper. I downloaded a nice picture of a teak panel and resized it before cutting and pasting to give me a long strip. I copied the strip until I had a page full and printed them off onto Epson matt paper. Here's the result:

 

19272812140_7c7a752f75_c.jpg

 

All I have done is stuck paper onto each of the panels, other than that it is exactly the same as in the first piture. I cut out each panel with my scalpel, painted the edges with the light rust paint to match the framing, and glued the paper in place with Evostick. The grain can be adjusted to run in the right direction, and of course if a piece goes wrong all that has been wasted is a piece of paper. Once it was all done the coach was varnished with Microscale satin, brushed on. The ducket by the way was clad in metal sheet so that was always painted. 

 

It's by no means perfect, but it's good enough to encourage me to keep on with the technique. I'm not sure what to do about the lining; it should be lined, but looking at the photo's in 'LBSCR Carriages' the lining on the teak coaches if far less obvious that that on the painted ones. I might have a go at printing panels with the lining on the other side of the coach, and if it doesn't work it can be finished like this side. My feeling is that no lining is far better than badly done lining. 

 

I'll take some pictures on the layout when the wheels arrive,

 

19272810210_1515363a80_c.jpg

 

Peter

Edited by kirtleypete
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I've had a go at liing the coach using paper panels printed with the teak and the lining. This was orange except on the first class stock which were lined in gold. 

 

19438034546_687a74e2b8_c.jpg

 

The advatage is that it's all regular and neat, the downside is that it makes the mouldings look wider than they should be. I might have a go at putting it where the doors are as that wide brown strip looks wrong. It's certainly better than I could have done with a pen or a brush.

 

19438033086_1b8ca6cdfd_c.jpg

 

Added a couple of hours later.................I've doen the thin panels alongside the doors which makes it look a lot better. Now I need to straighten that lamp top!

 

18843338334_638b9941ec_c.jpg

 

Peter

Edited by kirtleypete
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The more i look at my coach the more I don't like the colour; it's the orange lining, it doesn't suit the colour of the wood. This is what I picture when I think of a varnished teak coach:

 

19476375351_c384225a03_c.jpg

 

This is as close as it's possible to get to a Stroudley coach in varnished teak at the moment, one of the lovely LDCR coaches on the Bluebell. All the LBSC coaches, as far as i know, are painted rather than varnished. The first thing that strikes me is that it looks nothing like my model!

 

However, for the panels I used a picture of real teak. What has gone wrong? 

 

Reading the LBSC coaches book again I also realised that some, perhaps most coaches were mahogony, not teak, and that's another colour again.

 

The problem also is that there is really no such colour as 'teak' because there is a huge variation in tone:

 

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On the left is the wood I used, with the panel lining in orange. I looks OK here but it looks wrong on the coach, at least to my eyes. Next is a mahogony, much deeper in colour and much more red, and much more like the colour the LBSC used when they painted the coaches. The lining stands out far more.

 

Then there are two more teaks, very different from the first sample. Teak 2 looks like the wood on the LCDR coach and but it's nothing like the colour the LBSC used when the coaches were painted which was supposed to match the existing varnished stock. I'm beginning to wonder if I should have used mahogony, giving that lovely deep red colour. This is what the painted coaches look like:

 

19466028862_88137cd8b1_c.jpg

 

The mahogony certainly matches that pretty closely.

 

It's too late for my full brake; the side without lining looks OK so I can run it that way round and perhaps weather it a little. The next coach, though ,will be mahogony and we'll see how that turns out.

 

Peter

Edited by kirtleypete
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I suppose it's affected by the light, the varnish used, how long it's been in use, and lots of other elements. Is the "real teak" you used a modern one, treated with modern varnish? If you like the LCDR coach, can you use the panels on it? There's quite a variety of different effects on it.

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Peter

Sorry not to have picked this up earlier, but Brighton carriages were almost invariably mahogany - not teak. In the Craven period there were some teak examples, but they were very much the exception. Stroudley vehicles were either varnished mahogany or painted to look like mahogany (and therefore hard to tell apart) and should be the red Honduras mahogany not the more recent purple colour. There is a discussion at

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59091-butchering-k%E2%80%99s-stroudley-4-wheelers/

which quotes Brian May's Red Special guitar as a definitive example of the right colour!

The oracle on these things is "LB&SCR Carriages Vol I" by Ian White, Simon Turner and Sheina Foulkes (two of whom were deeply involved in restoring the 4 compartment 1st in your photo).

    http://www.bluebell-shop.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/BlueBellRailwayShop/_LBSCRV1/338685/LB%26amp%3Bamp%3BSCR%20Carriages%20Volume%201

I hope this helps (but you do work so quickly!).

Best wishes

Eric

PS Just to make things a bit more interesting, I think the lining should be gilt or straw, rather than orange.

Edited by burgundy
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I've been reading the carriages book over and over Eric but there's so much information in it I keep getting lost!  It certainly gives the lining colour as orange in the chapter on Strouidley carriages, though. I agree about the mahogany, I should have read it again before doing the model. 

 

Happily I've been able to give the coach a wash of colour so that the lining has been toned down and the colours all blend in a lot better - I'll take a picture tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm going to find a picture of Brian May's guitar!

 

Peter

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The lining on the painted coach looks more yellow than orange. I think that could go better with the mahogany finish. The varnish used can make quite a difference changing the wood colour.

Don

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See what you think now; I gave the whole coach side a coat of diluted Light rust paint and I think it has toned it all down and blended the colours together. It's not mahogany red, but it's not too far off. It looks better with wheels too!

 

Don, you're right, but on page 18 of 'LB&SCR carriages' it says that Stroudley coaches were lined in 'light orange or gold', so that's what I did. I think the lining is OK, it's the wood colour that was wrong though I suppose you could say that 'light orange' and 'straw' could be two descritions of the same shade. 

 

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18869978483_03a1230c75_c.jpg

 

18868102794_0200dc3b4b_c.jpg

 

Peter

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Some absolutely fantastic modelling here. That coach looks great.

I am really enjoying this thread, keep up the good work.

 

Atb Nik

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Thanks, I'm enjoying doing, even if I am airing my mistakes in public!

 

Peter

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One of the nice things about RMweb is finding a topic you have previously missed which has such good modelling in it as yours. As a 7mm worker myself I like to see it done well - even if the pre-grouping period is a long way from my usual steam/diesel transition. Keep up the good work!

 

Chaz

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See what you think now; I gave the whole coach side a coat of diluted Light rust paint and I think it has toned it all down and blended the colours together. It's not mahogany red, but it's not too far off. It looks better with wheels too!

 

Don, you're right, but on page 18 of 'LB&SCR carriages' it says that Stroudley coaches were lined in 'light orange or gold', so that's what I did. I think the lining is OK, it's the wood colour that was wrong though I suppose you could say that 'light orange' and 'straw' could be two descritions of the same shade. 

 

19484211832_8152f46ac9_c.jpg

 

18869978483_03a1230c75_c.jpg

 

18868102794_0200dc3b4b_c.jpg

 

Peter

 

If it is Mr Stroudly that described it as orange it could be quite different! Actually the toned down vehicle does look very good. I am no expert of LBSC or Teak/ Mahogany coaches but that looks believable. I rather like the preserved LDCR one above.  

 

Don

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You certainly move fast Peter - I look away for a moment and in the meantime you finish a new board and a loco! What a magnificent D1, although as a fan of William Dean I am not sure I like her name... 

 

A belated thanks for the info on the Crafty Computer transfers. I'll play around with them a bit and see what the results are.

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You may well get on fine with them, it's just down to personal preference really. 

 

Peter

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Looks  Good

One  thing  making  the  lining  look  over  prominent  is  that  it  appears  to  be  done  around  the  edge  of  your  printed  panels.

In  reality  it  is  on  the  curved  edge  of  the  mouldings  resulting  in  a  narrower plain  mahogony  gap  between  the  lines.

This  could  be  achieved  by  printing  the  lining  on  decal  paper and applying  seperately.

 

Printing  finishes  like  this  has  great  promise.  I  intend  to  try  it  at  N  gauge  and  apply  over  a  clear  carriage  side.

With  the  much  smaller  scale  mouldings  can  be  portrayed  by  shadowing/highlighting   in the  finish  rather  than  an  actual  raised  surface. 

 

Pete

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I've added a few more items to the layout to detail the goods yard, all using Andy Duncan's kits. 

 

20101202718_d86721ecc2_c.jpg

 

The crane is actually LNWR but don't tell anyone! 

 

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The colour scheme is a bit of a guess, I'm not an expert on LBSC horse drawn vehicles. No doubt someone will now tell me what colour it should be! It will probably end up on the station forecourt. 

 

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Once this cart is fixed down I'll add some figures, coal sacks and so on to create a cameo. 

 

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Hopefully I can get the third baseboard done before long - that's the next big job. 

 

Peter

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Brilliant!

 

I'm a long-time Brighton fan, and fascinated by your use of printed paper; great modern twist on a traditional approach.

 

Before rejecting the idea of printed material for coaches,you might want to Google "Mr Cat Graphics". Mr Cat, actually Brian Wright, is a genius at producing exceedingly convincing printed card coach sides in 0 scale, a lot of his work appears on coaches produced by "Ace Trains of London", also worth a Google.

 

My point being that you may well find that you can produce convincing Stroudley stock by print alone. The beading on the real thing is actually very fine, and I often think that models with raised detail,even etched brass,sometimes over-cook it.

 

Will this layout be appearing anywhere in the London area?

 

Kevin

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