bubbles2 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 At Exeter exhibition last month I bought a couple of black and white prints taken in the 70s, no names or info on them, I have asked the question if it is ok to share these for discusion here, please see the link below.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99723-i-bought-a-couple-of-photos-is-it-ok-to-post-them-on-rmweb/So if anyone knows any reason why these should not be shown here please let me know and I will remove them.The first picture taken at Cockwood harbour shows what I believe to be train 6B59 the 14.50 Ponsand- Exeter Riverside, with compressors from Compair Maxam at Redruth tanks of bromine extracted from seawater at the Associated Octel plant at Hayle, also many SPV vans conveying parcels and sundies I guess.The second picture looks to me to have been taken in south Devon on Dainton Bank, but please correct me if I'm wrong. The first wagon behind the peak is the one that really interests me. I have noticed a wagon such as this in Devon freight pictures before in this time period, but it has always been towards the rear of the train in the far distance of the picture making it difficult to discern in detail, so to find this has set me wondering if anyone has any more information on this or similar wagons. Is it a wagon from the Condor container service, the container wagons from that service on Paul Bartlets site do not seem to have the handbrake wheels at each end. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogiecondor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I believe there was NCL traffic from Paddington to the West Country in BD containers on these wagons but the one in the photo is a conversion of a Boplate rather than the as built Condor flats! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 I believe there was NCL traffic from Paddington to the West Country in BD containers on these wagons but the one in the photo is a conversion of a Boplate rather than the as built Condor flats! Mark Saunders Thanks Mark. I would like to model one of these in 4mm is there a kit produced that could be converted into a container carrying Boplate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks Mark. I would like to model one of these in 4mm is there a kit produced that could be converted into a container carrying Boplate? The Cambrian kit of the Boplate would be a start but you would have to make the inner frame as the conflat conversions like the Condor ones had no floor! If you ran them loaded little of the inner frame is visible! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks Mark. I would like to model one of these in 4mm is there a kit produced that could be converted into a container carrying Boplate? You could start with the Cambrian Bogie Bolster D with Gloucester bogies (C85), and just assemble chassis and floor; you'd have to model it loaded, as I don't think the prototype had a floor, just frame-members and headstocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The second picture looks to me to have been taken in south Devon on Dainton Bank, but please correct me if I'm wrong. The first wagon behind the peak is the one that really interests me. I have noticed a wagon such as this in Devon freight pictures before in this time period, but it has always been towards the rear of the train in the far distance of the picture making it difficult to discern in detail, so to find this has set me wondering if anyone has any more information on this or similar wagons. Is it a wagon from the Condor container service, the container wagons from that service on Paul Barttlets site do not seem to have the handbrake wheels at each end. SCN_0001 (800x496).jpgSCN_0002.jpg BR diagram 1/173 CONFLAT E, converted from diagram 1/492 BOPLATE E. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thankyou Mark, Brian and John, I will take a look at the Cambrian Kits Boplates. I wonder how the containers were fastened down as there is no sign of chain and shackles as on the 2 axle conflats? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thankyou Mark, Brian and John, I will take a look at the Cambrian Kits Boplates. I wonder how the containers were fastened down as there is no sign of chain and shackles as on the 2 axle conflats? I think there was some sort of crossbar which fitted snugly against to container, possibly with a cam mechanism; one of the David Larkin books has some photos, IIRC. 'Wagons of the Late British Railways Period', perhaps? The reason I suggested the Bolster D was because it has the correct type of Gloucester bogie; I think the options on the Boplate are either plate-frame or Y25C. I think some of these wagons ended up on containerised salt/potash work from Boulby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Having established the identity of the CONFLAT E, there are some similar wagons that closely resemble them but have lever handbrakes. I am aware of several theoretical candidates, but research to date indicates that none seem to match. 1/075 - CONFLAT CONDOR 1/172 - CONFLAT COKE 1/173 (ex 1/492) - CONFLAT E 1/174 - CONFLAT CLAY 1/176 (ex 1/492) CONFLAT EE (ex 1/492) CONFLAT ISO Any suggestions as to their identity would be greatly appreciated. Regards, John Isherwood. PS. I am unsure of the origin of these images; if anyone claims copyright I will remove them) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Having established the identity of the CONFLAT E, there are some similar wagons that closely resemble them but have lever handbrakes. UNIDENTIFIED_04 .jpg UNIDENTIFIED_05 .jpg I am aware of several theoretical candidates, but research to date indicates that none seem to match. 1/075 (ex 1/431) - CONFLAT CONDOR 1/172 - CONFLAT COKE 1/173 (ex 1/492) - CONFLAT E 1/174 - CONFLAT CLAY 1/176 (ex 1/492) CONFLAT EE (ex 1/492) CONFLAT ISO Any suggestions as to their identity would be greatly appreciated. Regards, John Isherwood. PS. I am unsure of the origin of these images; if anyone claims copyright I will remove them) The first one looks as though it's simply a Bolster D or perhaps a Boplate E, with bodywork removed; the tension-strap winches are visible on the solebar. Not sure about the second one; it does seem to have been modified for container traffic of some sort. Conflat Clay seem to have been straight Boplate Es; I didn't notice any obvious modification on the sole example I saw. I helped measure a selection of the wagons used for the containerised salt/potash traffic from Boulby; ostensibly similar, there were ex-Boflats, Conflat Cokes and Condors amongst them, all with differing vestiges of bodywork remaining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The first one looks as though it's simply a Bolster D or perhaps a Boplate E, with bodywork removed; the tension-strap winches are visible on the solebar. Well - that's what I thought, initially - but it they both have locating lugs at the corners, and the multi-hole lugs along the solebar, which were used to locate spacing bars between the traditional containers. A little more research reveals that they are 1/075 CONFLAT CONDOR. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I suggest that you check out the following collections belonging to Paul Bartlett! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobraconflat http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflatiso If anyone wants individual wagon numbers I would suggest trying on the BR wagon research group on Yahoo! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I suggest that you check out the following collections belonging to Paul Bartlett! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobraconflat http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brconflatiso If anyone wants individual wagon numbers I would suggest trying on the BR wagon research group on Yahoo! Mark Saunders Mark, All my research suggests that the OP shows photos of 1/173 CONFLAT E wagons (ex 1/492), which subsequently became CONFLAT ISO. The two that I posted were, I'm pretty sured, 1/075 CONFLAT CONDOR wagons - though I'm not yet clear as to what were the origins of the 1/075 conversions. They have twin brake levers, rather than the twin brake wheels of 1/492 BOPLATE wagons. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Mark, All my research suggests that the OP shows photos of 1/173 CONFLAT E wagons (ex 1/492), which subsequently became CONFLAT ISO. The two that I posted were, I'm pretty sured, 1/075 CONFLAT CONDOR wagons - though I'm not yet clear as to what were the origins of the 1/075 conversions. They have twin brake levers, rather than the twin brake wheels of 1/492 BOPLATE wagons. Regards, John Isherwood. John My only thought is the JDW data sheets published by David Larkin many years ago may help! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 John My only thought is the JDW data sheets published by David Larkin many years ago may help! Mark Which I have - I'll check and see if he throws any light on this - though I'd have thought that I'd have put a note in my database if he does !! Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think there was some sort of crossbar which fitted snugly against to container, possibly with a cam mechanism; one of the David Larkin books has some photos, IIRC. 'Wagons of the Late British Railways Period', perhaps? The reason I suggested the Bolster D was because it has the correct type of Gloucester bogie; I think the options on the Boplate are either plate-frame or Y25C. I think some of these wagons ended up on containerised salt/potash work from Boulby. If you order directly from Cambrian I am sure that Barry will let you have your choice of bogies to suit your chosen prototype! The next question is which Boplate conversions retained the ends? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGT1972 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Have look at this on Crewcastrian's Flickr site: https://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/8643861634/in/album-72157644928433059/ A useful shot for anyone modelling that particular Conflat variant. Hywel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Have look at this on Crewcastrian's Flickr site: https://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/8643861634/in/album-72157644928433059/ A useful shot for anyone modelling that particular Conflat variant. Hywel Interesting - it has brake wheels, so it's not a 1/075 CONFLAT CONDOR but a 1/492 BOPLATE conversion. It would seem that 1/075 were purpose-built with lever brakes, but the other batch of bogie conflats were converted from 1/492 BOPLATEs with brake wheels. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Interesting - it has brake wheels, so it's not a 1/075 CONFLAT CONDOR but a 1/492 BOPLATE conversion. It would seem that 1/075 were purpose-built with lever brakes, but the other batch of bogie conflats were converted from 1/492 BOPLATEs with brake wheels. Regards, John Isherwood. John The give away is the number series that the wagons are in with the conversions keeping the originals. The same goes for the Chalk Tipplers that are not in the Iron Ore series and the SOV's that were for paper traffic! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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