Covhops. 1960s Derbyshire Lime traffic

[highpeakman]

I am aware that some Covhops were modified and marked according to the dedicated traffic they carried.

 

I want to get some Covhops for my early 60s Derbyshire Limestone based layout (think Peak Forest) and tended to assume they are "standard" but what is that? The only Covhops that seem to be available at present are the Bachmann ones but they are marked Soda Ash traffic. Apart from the markings are there any physical differences between the types that carried lime from Peak Forest? I have looked at Paul Bartletts pictures but only one is marked limestone and i cannot tell if there are differences.

 

I appreciate that I will have to change the markings if I buy them.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Have a look through Wallace Sutherland's site    http://www.sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/ws-001.html

 

there are various images which include covhops carrying lime.

 

Dave

[Fat Controller]

I don't think there were any Covhops that received major modifications, except for those used for sugar traffic, which received different hatches. There was an article in Rail Express about different uses of Covhop when the model appeared- this would be worth looking out for.

A more recent Rail Express had an article on Bulk Grain hoppers which had been modified to complement the Covhops on lime, and later sodium tripolyphosphate, traffic.

[Mark Saunders]

There is a photograph on ebay of Peakforrest station showing Lime Covhops, a Prestwin and Vanfits!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peak-Forest-Railway-Station-Photo-Chapel-en-le-Frith-Millers-Dale-Midland-Ry-/251812379647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa12ffbff

 

Mark Saunders

[highpeakman]

I don't think there were any Covhops that received major modifications, except for those used for sugar traffic, which received different hatches. There was an article in Rail Express about different uses of Covhop when the model appeared- this would be worth looking out for.

A more recent Rail Express had an article on Bulk Grain hoppers which had been modified to complement the Covhops on lime, and later sodium tripolyphosphate, traffic.

 

Thanks for all the comments and info.

 

I will try to get hold of that Rail Express article.

 

I know that the Covhops used on sodium tripolyphosphate traffic were modified but I have assumed that the lime ones were standard and similar to most of the others.

 

I had not realised that Bulk Grain hoppers were also used so Thanks for that info. The questions below apply to them as well.

 

Two further questions come to mind though. Were the Covhops used for lime traffic marked as such? Many of the other traffic Covhops were marked for that particular traffic for obvious reasons.

 

Also, in the early 60s, were the lime traffic Covhops fitted? Or were they both unfitted and fitted?

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for all the comments and info.

 

I will try to get hold of that Rail Express article.

 

I know that the Covhops used on sodium tripolyphosphate traffic were modified but I have assumed that the lime ones were standard and similar to most of the others.

 

I had realised that Bulk Grain hoppers were also used so Thanks for that info. The questions below apply to them as well.

 

Two further questions come to mind though. Were the Covhops used for lime traffic marked as such? Many of the other traffic Covhops were marked for that particular traffic for obvious reasons.

 

Also, in the early 60s, were the lime traffic Covhops fitted? Or were they both unfitted and fitted?

I don't think lime ones were specially labelled (you could have a look at Cambridge Custom Transfers, and see what John lists). I don't think there were that many fitted (as opposed to piped) Covhops, so you should not have that high a proportion of them.

[highpeakman]

I don't think there were any Covhops that received major modifications, except for those used for sugar traffic, which received different hatches. There was an article in Rail Express about different uses of Covhop when the model appeared- this would be worth looking out for.

A more recent Rail Express had an article on Bulk Grain hoppers which had been modified to complement the Covhops on lime, and later sodium tripolyphosphate, traffic.

 

Sorry but have just edited my first reply to this post - it should have read " I had NOT realised that Bulk Grain Hoppers were used".

[highpeakman]

I don't think lime ones were specially labelled (you could have a look at Cambridge Custom Transfers, and see what John lists). I don't think there were that many fitted (as opposed to piped) Covhops, so you should not have that high a proportion of them.

 

Thanks.

 

I will look at the Cambridge Transfers as I will have to modify the Bachmann Covhops.

 

I will look for a couple of Bulk Grain carriers also.

[pharrc20]

I have almost finished modelling a rake of Covhops for Tunstead to Northwich lime traffic based on the Bachmann vacuum-fitted OO model and using Alan Monks article referred to in Rail Express modified the wagons from being vac fitted to become just through-piped only with hand lever brakes. To finish them off I used the CCT transfers BL35h IIRC that covers some of the wagons that were in this pool. The main alterations are to remove the vac brake parts from the chassis and replace with a pair of cut-down brake shoes and supports from the Parkside PA07 under frame kit and then replace the buffers with some more suitable heavy-duty style self contained buffers as per the article. It is easier IMO to start with the BR fitted Bauxite livery version of the wagon cat number 38-500 rather than use the 38-501 unfitted grey model.

 

Cheers Paul

[highpeakman]

I have almost finished modelling a rake of Covhops for Tunstead to Northwich lime traffic based on the Bachmann vacuum-fitted OO model and using Alan Monks article referred to in Rail Express modified the wagons from being vac fitted to become just through-piped only with hand lever brakes. To finish them off I used the CCT transfers BL35h IIRC that covers some of the wagons that were in this pool. The main alterations are to remove the vac brake parts from the chassis and replace with a pair of cut-down brake shoes and supports from the Parkside PA07 under frame kit and then replace the buffers with some more suitable heavy-duty style self contained buffers as per the article. It is easier IMO to start with the BR fitted Bauxite livery version of the wagon cat number 38-500 rather than use the 38-501 unfitted grey model.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Thanks for the information. That is very helpful indeed. Is that the June 2015 edition of Rail Express?

 

There is a grey "Soda Ash" version of the Covhop which is non-fitted (or should be) so do you know if it already has the brake mods you refer to?

 

Sounds likje we have similar interests (but your expertise is better than mine).

 

Don

[highpeakman]

Just downloaded the June 2014 Rail Express so will be studying that article tonight. Thanks for the references.

[highpeakman]

Just one last question please (if anyone is still reading this thread? ).

 

When I placed my original post I had not discovered the Covhop thread under the Bachmann heading (I originally only searched under prototype heading).

 

I have now learnt a lot more but the Covhop thread shows some excellent photos of Peak Forest lime traffic but I am finding it difficult to tell from those pictures if most of the wagons are (very) badly stained bauxite or actually grey. In the mid 60s they seem to be bauxite but I am not absolutely sure. Can anyone confirm that please?

[Mark Saunders]

Just one last question please (if anyone is still reading this thread? ).

 

When I placed my original post I had not discovered the Covhop thread under the Bachmann heading (I originally only searched under prototype heading).

 

I have now learnt a lot more but the Covhop thread shows some excellent photos of Peak Forest lime traffic but I am finding it difficult to tell from those pictures if most of the wagons are (very) badly stained bauxite or actually grey. In the mid 60s they seem to be bauxite but I am not absolutely sure. Can anyone confirm that please?

 

If you need to identify the individual wagons you need to find a listing of the which wagons were built for which traffic and the branding on them! If you can get a copy of David Larkin's data sheets these may help!

 

Mark Saunders

[pharrc20]

Thanks for the information. That is very helpful indeed. Is that the June 2015 edition of Rail Express?

 

There is a grey "Soda Ash" version of the Covhop which is non-fitted (or should be) so do you know if it already has the brake mods you refer to?

 

Sounds likje we have similar interests (but your expertise is better than mine).

 

Don

 

Hi Don, yes sorry it was the June 2014 issue of Rail Express Modeller as you have confirmed in the next posting. My initial idea was to use the grey unfitted version of the model and do the mods that way round thinking that it would be easier. But once I had read the article I agreed with what Alan had written and decided to go the same route. Plus the axle boxes on the grey unfitted model are correctly oil pad bearings whereas the bauxite fitted models are later roller bearings and so more suitable for the through-piped wagons I want to model.

 

It is hard to tell from the black and white photos just what livery the wagons are but I can imagine that they would have used several rakes of wagons in unfitted and through-piped rakes with a suitable brake van on the rear. The sheet of transfers from Cambridge Custom Transfers has numbers for 12 of the through-piped wagons. Wagons B870645-659 (15) were lettered Soda Ash Only Empty To Tunstead Kilns Peak Forest and were part of the Lot 3393 batch built at Ashford in 1963. Meanwhile a further batch of wagons B886900-962 had previously been built at Derby under Lot 3204 in 1959/60 and Lot 3289 in 1960. Although the CCT sheet provides pairs of transfers for 3 x B8706xx wagons and 9 x B8869xx wagons I don't have the David Larkin info sheets and so have gone off what he has published in his wagon books.

 

Cheers Paul

[highpeakman]

If you need to identify the individual wagons you need to find a listing of the which wagons were built for which traffic and the branding on them! If you can get a copy of David Larkin's data sheets these may help!

 

Mark Saunders

 

Thanks for the reference.

 

Not sure, at the moment, how much detail I will go into on thsi. My layout is loosely based on an amalgam of Cromford and High Peak, Wirksworth and Peak Dale rather than any specific location. I am just trying to capture the atmosphere of those places, if possible, that I remember from my youth so I want stock that was typically used on the various traffic flows in the area but not necessarily absolute accuracy in every single detail. Trying to discover where the line is between those two things that satisfies me!

 

Don

[highpeakman]

Hi Don, yes sorry it was the June 2014 issue of Rail Express Modeller as you have confirmed in the next posting. My initial idea was to use the grey unfitted version of the model and do the mods that way round thinking that it would be easier. But once I had read the article I agreed with what Alan had written and decided to go the same route. Plus the axle boxes on the grey unfitted model are correctly oil pad bearings whereas the bauxite fitted models are later roller bearings and so more suitable for the through-piped wagons I want to model.

 

It is hard to tell from the black and white photos just what livery the wagons are but I can imagine that they would have used several rakes of wagons in unfitted and through-piped rakes with a suitable brake van on the rear. The sheet of transfers from Cambridge Custom Transfers has numbers for 12 of the through-piped wagons. Wagons B870645-659 (15) were lettered Soda Ash Only Empty To Tunstead Kilns Peak Forest and were part of the Lot 3393 batch built at Ashford in 1963. Meanwhile a further batch of wagons B886900-962 had previously been built at Derby under Lot 3204 in 1959/60 and Lot 3289 in 1960. Although the CCT sheet provides pairs of transfers for 3 x B8706xx wagons and 9 x B8869xx wagons I don't have the David Larkin info sheets and so have gone off what he has published in his wagon books.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Paul

 

Thank you very much for the information.

 

I have just acquired two grey Covhops marked for Soda Ash. I will probably add to that with some of the bauxite ones and, depending on which versions I get, I can respray and use CCT transfers so your information is very helpful.

 

As I mention in my response to Mark above, I am not after absolute accuracy with regard some of the finer details, such as wagon numbering and brake detail (sorry), as my interest is in creating an impression and atmosphere of that railway scene in the 60s. However, having said that, I do like things to look right and so things like the type of wagon used, markings (as opposed to numbering) and weathering (very relevant in this case!) are important to me.

 

As I said above it can be very difficult for me to choose when enough detail is enough and that is why it is so helpful when people provide so much information. I must stress that I really appreciate all the help and, even if I do not always follow every suggestion in model form, then my interest in the subject is still very much there and I am not too old to keep learning fresh aspects of railway operations I learn from RM Web and contributors. 

 

Thanks again

 

Don