00 Double Junction Using Code 75 rail

[melmerby]

Hi all

 

I have on my layout a curved RH double junction using Peco Code 75 Electrofrog 36" turnouts and a long diamond crossing.

The original aim was to have a continuous curve as on prototype layous, however Peco do not do a curved diamond for the crossing.

So I made a 36" curved + Straight diamond using copper clad sleepers, with the diverging outer track curving through the junction.

This was not entirely satisfactory due to the weird geometry employed by Peco where the average point radius is 36" but includes the straight sections at each end and is probably nearer to 24" on the curve,

The rolling stock snaked through in a most unrealistic way, so I went back to using a Peco straight diamond and adjusted the track layout to suit.

However this was not really satisfactory either.

 

Now I am looking to possibly make a proper fully curved junction.

 

What are the possiblities? C+L?, Marcway? any others?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

[nigelb]

you say you have made copper clad points and a diamond  why not use templot  and   build up the whole formation .

that way your going to get the smooth flow your looking for

[martin_wynne]

Now I am looking to possibly make a proper fully curved junction.

 

What are the possibilities? C+L?, Marcway? any others?

 

Hi Keith,

 

This video shows how to create the template in Templot:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=z3LZpZ1HyGx4Mzpft5UXUA2

 

Click the playback button each time the video pauses in the above MP4 version.

 

For better image quality, in Templot go to help > watch a video > Scruff Video curviform double junction menu item.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[gordon s]

I agree with others, that the real solution is to build your own.

 

Here's one in code 75 rail, PCB soldered, using C & L copper strip and rail.  Not as good as fully chaired track, but I'm not up to that level yet.  Use Templot and take your time and you should be able to get the flow you are looking for.

 

 

[melmerby]

Thanks for the answers so far.

 

I have made some other home brew copperclads in the past, including a code 100 three way some years ago before Peco made one!

Appearance is not too important as the junction is mostly hidden behind other things.

 

Looks like templot is a good possibility.

The actual radius of the inner track that curves off the junction is somewhere between 42" & 48" so I don't think off the shelf is really an option.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

As all have said Templot is the way to go as far as a plan is concerned. Join Templot Club, then have a go and post your results (quite simple) . There are some very helpful members who will assist you.

 

If you have cut your teeth on copperclad turnouts and a crossing then this is the next step. Copperclad construction is a bit easier in some ways, a chaired turnout is a bit harder in some areas but easier in others. A Hybrid construction  method using the best parts of each method is not only easier but has the looks.

[melmerby]

This was my attempt at a curved crossing, the only tools used were a track gauge and a 36" Tracksetta

It's not pretty but is functional (which was all I was aiming at, at the time).

 

 

Any attempt at a full double junction will be done with some care!

 

Keith

[sub39h]

I know it's not what you asked but there are ways of making a double junction using RTR Peco points that look reasonably fluid and realistic. Here are a couple I've drawn on SCARM. The one on the right, I reckon if you trimmed the straight sections of the small diamond point right down you could have almost a continuous curve that would look pretty good for a lot less effort. 

[Loxborough]

Worth having a look at this topic (Grantham in the Streamliner years). The author has had a lot of success adapting peco pointwork to reproduce prototypical trackwork.

 

Alternatively, of course, you could do like me; work entirely with C&L chaired track, and still be building trackwork 5 years later!

 

Good luck,

 

George

[melmerby]

Worth having a look at this topic (Grantham in the Streamliner years). The author has had a lot of success adapting peco pointwork to reproduce prototypical trackwork.

 

Alternatively, of course, you could do like me; work entirely with C&L chaired track, and still be building trackwork 5 years later!

 

Good luck,

 

George

But you can't get anything like this flow with Peco:

 

http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Barry/060529/JunctionClose.jpg

The continuous curve is what I want/need.

 

Keith

 

(Mine is RH but it is just like that)

[hayfield]

But you can't get anything like this flow with Peco:

 

http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Barry/060529/JunctionClose.jpg

The continuous curve is what I want/need.

 

Keith

 

(Mine is RH but it is just like that)

 

 

Use Templot to design the junction, if using Peco flexitrack it may be worth using H0 sleeper spacing to match the track, and if other turnouts are close use 10" rather than 12" timbers to match up

[Loxborough]

But you can't get anything like this flow with Peco:

 

http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Barry/060529/JunctionClose.jpg

The continuous curve is what I want/need.

 

Keith

 

(Mine is RH but it is just like that)

Have a look at the topic, he has got very close to what you are looking for in terms of flow (looking in particular at the single slip in the middle which is on two curved roads);

 

 

G

[melmerby]

If you had Farish Formoway 00 you could do that easily as it had a flexible base.

It's a pity someone doesnt take on the design (it was dropped years ago, long before Bachmann came on the scene)

Still not to scale but IMHO better than Peco

 

Keith

[melmerby]

Picture of curved, Farish Diamond

No modifications done apart from replacing frog nose with solid rails!

 

 

Keith

 

EDIT note Streamline joiners, the Farish ones were pants!

[Mike Storey]

If you don't necessarily want to go down the hand-built route, have you tried Tillig track - their pointwork can curve to a radius to suit you, although I am not sure about their crossovers.

[BlackRat]

Have you tried cutting through the solid sleeper web one Peco track?

 

An old trick, but it does work within limits.

[melmerby]

If you don't necessarily want to go down the hand-built route, have you tried Tillig track - their pointwork can curve to a radius to suit you, although I am not sure about their crossovers.

 

 

Have you tried cutting through the solid sleeper web one Peco track?

 

An old trick, but it does work within limits.

The problem is the crossover.

If you curve one road the other must curve as well, as with the Formoway above.

[Grovenor]

Picture of curved, Farish Diamond

No modifications done apart from replacing frog nose with solid rails!

 

Farish crossing.jpg

 

Keith

 

EDIT note Streamline joiners, the Farish ones were pants!

Curving both roads of a diamond as in this pic is a different thing entirely from curving one road as required in a double junction. In the latter the crossings at the two ends must be of significantly different angles, which is impossible with any current offerings.

Why do so many of you want to suggest compromised botches when the OP can just settle down and build his double junction as he himself suggested.

Regards

Keith

[melmerby]

Curving both roads of a diamond as in this pic is a different thing entirely from curving one road as required in a double junction. In the latter the crossings at the two ends must be of significantly different angles, which is impossible with any current offerings.

Why do so many of you want to suggest compromised botches when the OP can just settle down and build his double junction as he himself suggested.

Regards

Keith

Cheers

A better version of the botch job I did sometime ago in post #7!

The starting angle is similar to a Peco large diamond, but the end angle like a Peco short crossing .

 

The Scaleway 00DJ kit is a double junction copper clad kit and might be what I need. (£18.50)

Or I could buy a ready made 48" for £199!

 

Keith

[mightbe]

^Though that won't match Peco.

 

Of course it won't match any properly timbered track either--Marcway uses an idiosyncratic system which doesn't resemble any prototypical practice. Not to mention they use check rails that are much too long.

 

Really I think you would be better off a) handbuilding all your track from like components (mixing C&L with Exactoscale recommended), B) totally redesigning the junction to follow one of the SCARM examples, or c) redesigning the junction so that both roads can be curved gently and using a Peco crossing that has had some plastic removed, or d) toss the templates Marcway gives you, as they will be completely useless and make your own from Templot.

 

d) and a) will be about as easy as each other, but both require more work and care than either b) or c)

 

Quentin

[Grovenor]

Cheers

A better version of the botch job I did sometime ago in post #7!

The starting angle is similar to a Peco large diamond, but the end angle like a Peco short crossing .

 

The Scaleway 00DJ kit is a double junction copper clad kit and might be what I need. (£18.50)

Or I could buy a ready made 48" for £199!

 

Keith

The one you did earlier looks fine, not a botch like you would get from trying to adapt Peco or Tillig etc.

The scaleway kit looks to be a reasonable way of getting the materials for a sensible price, but I would make your own template as Quentin suggests.

As for a ready made, better to spend the extra £180 on your labour rather than theirs.

Regards

Keith

[melmerby]

The one you did earlier looks fine, not a botch like you would get from trying to adapt Peco or Tillig etc.

The scaleway kit looks to be a reasonable way of getting the materials for a sensible price, but I would make your own template as Quentin suggests.

As for a ready made, better to spend the extra £180 on your labour rather than theirs.

Regards

Keith

I think I'll go Martin's way. (Quentin's route d.!)

 

I've downloaded the latest version of Templot and had a quick play.

Seems quite easy to start making up point templates to order.

 

As long as I can get the sleepers properly spaced and cut I should manage a more realistic looking version of my curved/straight diamond as part of an all in one double junction.

 

I think I'll have to get some proper gauges as well before I start any construction!

 

Keith

[mightbe]

^On the topic of gauges, you have two choices for using unmodified RTR wheelsets. Both will give you interoperability with Peco points elsewhere:

 

OO-SF or DOGA-Intermediate.

 

Those are the only two choices--I don't know where one can buy gauges for the latter but there's PLENTY of information on the former (a lot of it right here on RMWeb in the Handbuilt Track and Templot section) and gauges are found on the C&L website.

 

I use OO-SF and found that the appearance of the narrower flangeway and check rail gaps is well worth it. DOGA-Intermediate and OO-SF will have--in this application and assuming you are using no kit wheels or RP25/88 wheels--identical running characteristics. Both keep the wheel fully supported, i.e. no wheel-drop.

 

The one limitation with OO-SF is that you must keep the radius below about 36" through the common crossing (elsewhere it doesn't matter). As you'll be using curviform crossings to get a smooth curve like in the picture above, treat this as a hard limit. Normally OO-SF will work down to 30" without gauge widening, but better safe than sorry. Also, make sure that the turnouts are staggered by one sleeper's length--the inside turnout being a few mm 'behind' the outside. 

 

DOGA-Intermediate can use a smaller radius through the crossing (though I wouldn't recommend a smaller radius than 36" based on appearance).

 

Quentin

[martin_wynne]

Hi Keith,

 

Assuming you want to use Peco large radius turnouts in the junction, you will find it hard work in Templot so I have done one for you.

 

Proper prototype turnouts are easy in Templot but matching the Peco ones is a pain. If you want to have a go, you can download Templot templates matching Peco turnouts from: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=294&forum_id=10

 

Don't try printing the above image, here are two PDF template files to print, one on two A4 pages, or one on a single page:

 

peco_double_junction_a4paper.pdf

 

peco_double_junction_single_page.pdf

 

Make sure you set scaling = "none" or 100% when printing. This is not the default setting in most PDF reader programs.

 

Inner radius 42.8". Outer radius 44.8". Track spacing 2" (50.8mm) as Peco. Diamond-crossing angles 1:4, 1:3.25, 1:2.8.

 

I haven't bothered to adjust the plain track sleeper spacing for Peco flexi, but the sleeper length matches (29mm).

 

Of course as Quentin suggests it would look far better and run better in 00-SF or 00-BF, but in that case you would need to build the turnouts as well as the diamond.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[mightbe]

I believe it was his intention to buy the Marcway kit for the entire double junction and use the bits to built a complete one, without resorting to using Peco. IIRC the kits are just lengths of uncut rail and copperclad.

 

FWIW Scaleway flextrack works well with Marway's height of copperclad strip. Worth considering upgrading to it for the rest of the layout.

 

Quentin