RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 8, 2015 I presume it applied nationally but it was certainly standard practice on the Western for breather switches (expansion joints) in cwr to be mounted on timber sleepers and they used to come pre-assembled like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 When you say CWR compatible what makes them so? Are they inclined switches or vertical with twist rails? I have encountered a new one that is causing a headache. Inclined switches to save on the twist rails, stress transfer blocks between the switch and stock rails to transfer the thermal forces from one rail to the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I presume it applied nationally but it was certainly standard practice on the Western for breather switches (expansion joints) in cwr to be mounted on timber sleepers and they used to come pre-assembled like that. All adjustment switches used to come mounted on four timbers, except that in some places on the ER they only used the middle two and without strap rails. This was also done on the LM but only for temporary adjustment switches that would only be in for a week or so to protect plant rails during relaying. A special thickness of timber was used for adjustment switches (6 1/2" if I remember rightly) so that the bottom of the timber was at the same depth as the neighbouring full depth concrete sleepers. Some people would mount adjustment switches surrounded by the shallow depth EF / EG sleepers on ordinary crossing timbers, but that was going better than the standards, and would only occur to those who knew why the normal timbers were thicker in the first place. Now you can get special steel and concrete bearers to mount your adjustment switches on, which saves the extra maintenance caused by having timbers. Below are a couple of photos of less usual types of Adj Sw that may be of interest. 1959 dated Flat Bottom type. Close up of one blade. 95lb RBS Adj Sw. Then getting back more to the original subject. A sprung inclined B trap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Found this unusual catch point built into a point on the former Harton Electric Railway https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6121/6038951609_52e051fe5f_b.jpg Presume it is to stop the wagons running onto the mainline (which the loco is on) which were run down by gravity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted August 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2015 Interesting to see coal used as ballast! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panel 7 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Just a little help with the difference between catch and trap points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Closer photo of a set of B Catch points designed for use in CWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 These could be stressed through? After searching through some paperwork i have on Sandy i came across this plan for a switch and crossing renewal... There appears to be some significant anchoring of stock and switch rails that i guess is to do with stressing in CWR? This photo shows similar.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8340756567/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Yes the five blocks you can see in the photo would each have two high tensile V bolts through them to transfer the stress from switch to stock rail. So the catch point can be used in CWR without the protection of adjustment switches. The lead in the foreground of the flicker photo looks a bit dodgy, the zig zag of steel in the nearer switch suggests it is strengthened, but its pair mate appears not to be. There are fishplated joints between it and the diamond so that bit of track is not CWR, however the other side might be as years ago it was considered acceptable to use S&C to separate CWR and jointed. Although the S&C would usually be strengthened, and either welded and/or fitted with tight jointed fishplates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 The lead in the foreground of the flicker photo looks a bit dodgy, the zig zag of steel in the nearer switch suggests it is strengthened, but its pair mate appears not to be. You would only need the reinforcement on one side if only the straight route is stressed. I have several plans for S&C renewal from the GN mainline including a mechanically operated D12 in the up fast at Arlesey that show the strengthening on one side only. I believe it was a 100/40mph turnout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Jointed track behind it so no through stressing on either side, and may not be CWR beyond the crossing either as we can not see that. But it is an interesting thought about not needing strengthened switches both sides if only one of the roads beyond the crossing is CWR. I have not heard of that being done, and the office I worked at liked its S&C as big strong welded up lumps. But that does not stop some other office at a different time or place seeing it your way. I can only think of one lead I have come across that was only strengthened on one side, and memory suggests that one was strengthened on the wrong side for your theory. It is also possible that one or both could be the result of an ordering mistake by the maintainers. Or putting in anything that fits in an emergency with the intention of coming back later and fitting the proper spare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2015 may as well add this here, ground frame operated catch point at sinfin the frame and the points the train is sat up hill of the points in the old sinfin central station, you can see the back of the stopboard on the right that you can only pass once the points are set, the direction of the points is quite unusual as anything that may run away down the hill would run through the points and probably just throw them over can anyone in the know enlighten me as to why they are set up that way, the line used to have a passenger service to sinfin (where the 56 is sat) and beyond the frame is a single line (old mainline to chellaston) with a turnback into the discharge facility Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2015 Can't believe that it's nearly 48 years since I was rivetting up the clasps on the Ground Frame levers for the Saltley, Derby and Trent PSB schemes. At that time I think all of the points on the Sinfin line were hand points prior to the passenger service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 can anyone in the know enlighten me as to why they are set up that way, the line used to have a passenger service to sinfin (where the 56 is sat) and beyond the frame is a single line (old mainline to chellaston) with a turnback into the discharge facility I would assume that the trap was added when the passenger service was started as the required trapping protection of the passenger line from goods lines and sidings. When Derby PSB was opened the Chellaston line was a through siding. See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/signalling/plans/Derby.gif Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Interesting to see coal used as ballast! I guess it's a question of using what you have available cheaply and in quantity. A few years ago I did some design work for a salt company (mostly bulk chemical feedstock rather than Saxa) and they were keen on using salt for "earthworks" like vehicle ramps, loading docks and so forth. They'd just pile it up to shape with a loader and bulldozer, hose it down for a while to melt the surface together and then leave it for a while. It set like concrete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 How about this one? A motor operated wide to gauge spring trap point... https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26360088270/with an enlargement of the point in question..https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26027589564/ Now to find a photo of it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2016 How about this one? A motor operated wide to gauge spring trap point... https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26360088270/ with an enlargement of the point in question.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26027589564/ Now to find a photo of it! This has some similarities but no spring involved as far as I could see (probably because it would only ever be used in the facing direction in normal working) - Sydney (NSW), with a separate machine for each switch rail The ones at Perth (Scotland) were also purely for trapping and didn't appear to be trailable in any way - they used a single normal BR pattern hydraulic point machine with cranks to reverse the throw of the switch rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I thought this one was interesting. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/26030036073/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 How about this one? A motor operated wide to gauge spring trap point... https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26360088270/ with an enlargement of the point in question.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/26027589564/ Now to find a photo of it! Clearly dual purpose, acting as both trap and catch point, presumably the branch was uphill. The one in Sydney is just for trapping so no need of any spring action. Similarly the one in New St. which could have been the same as the Sydney one but they fudged it by adding a separate single blade trap so that the turnout blades could retain their tie bars. Regards Edit, changed Perth to New St, should have looked at the picture caption. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2016 Clearly dual purpose, acting as both trap and catch point, presumably the branch was uphill. No - the way it is arranged it is trailed by a train coming onto the branch where it goes from double to single so no need to pull any levers for it to go through the point - note the switch rail on that side is bolted in the open position for a train coming off the branch but doesn't otherwise move. So in reality it is a spring point which can be bolted in its normal (open) state as it has to be when the point is facing while the motored switch rail is effectively the trap as it is the only one which moves to let a train through towards the main line. Whether it was done like that to also act as a catch point is an interesting question but it certainly saved lever movements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2016 This has some similarities but no spring involved as far as I could see (probably because it would only ever be used in the facing direction in normal working) - Sydney (NSW), with a separate machine for each switch rail 061_DS~1.jpg 060_DS~1.jpg The ones at Perth (Scotland) were also purely for trapping and didn't appear to be trailable in any way - they used a single normal BR pattern hydraulic point machine with cranks to reverse the throw of the switch rails. Pneumatically operated ,excellent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2016 There are a set of motor operated wide to gauge catch points on the down goods outside Colchester box. They were bullhead but renewed in flat bottom about six years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 No - the way it is arranged it is trailed by a train coming onto the branch where it goes from double to single so no need to pull any levers for it to go through the point Which bit of my statement are you saying "No" to? Actually you have to pull lever 42 to go through the point as 42 unlocks it allowing it to push over against the spring. If there was no need for it to act as a catch then lever 42 could have just closed the blade directly. By being sprung it is available to catch any breakaways without needing 42 replaced. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 26, 2016 Which bit of my statement are you saying "No" to? Actually you have to pull lever 42 to go through the point as 42 unlocks it allowing it to push over against the spring. If there was no need for it to act as a catch then lever 42 could have just closed the blade directly. By being sprung it is available to catch any breakaways without needing 42 replaced. Regards Sorry yes - 42 has to be pulled to allow it to work as a spring (different practice form our neck of the railway where FPLs stand bolted with the lever reverse). But in any case 22 will catch/derail any breakaways whether 42 is bolted or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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