A3 Book Law

[pom-pom]

Sure Tom, no problem. The wood I used happened to be the edge of a sheet of 8'x4' MDF I'm temporarily using for a baseboard as I knew it wasn't going to move. I've uploaded a photo to show the fulcrum point which as you say is just behind the steam pipes. Note the small plastic lugs further backward - be very careful not to damage these. Note also the rendition of the front section of the main frames. This is acting as a strengthening gusset and I found it prudent to weaken this slightly to promote a bend rather than a snap. I did this by using a flat needle file to cut slots and I also took a little of the back edge of these frame pieces away as these butt up a little too hard against the chassis block. Once the body-shell retaining machine screw is in place the body isn't going to move anywhere easily.

 

The bending process - I found the best approach to this was to pour myself a large scotch and clear the room of any distractions. If you don't have a sense of the tensile properties of materials then it may not be advisable to proceed. Otherwise, I steadied the boiler with one hand and pushed down with two fingers on the top of the running plate/footplate just in front of the smokebox where you will find flat spots... gently does it. You may hear cracking noises and the black plastic cover sections on top of the running plate between that and the steam pipes may come adrift... the whiskey helped calm me with this part. Try the body back on the chassis - I had to do this many times before I was happy with the result. Once you are there glue on anything that came adrift and fix the body back on with the screw but minus the plastic washer. And note that there's a red wire attached to the motor on the left-hand side which can easily get trapped between the body and the chassis and in the rear driving wheel (should be taped up properly really).

 

And that's it basically... just use maximum caution. Photos of the result attached. As yet I have no idea what to do about the other frame distortion problem under the firebox!

 

Nick

 

Ps. despite what I said earlier about there being no detail pack there was.. it contains the flanged Cartazzi truck wheel and some cylinder drain cocks. Don't fit the latter before undertaking the modification above, they will seriously get in the way. I might remove mine - they don't look right compared to the photos of 2599 I've seen.

 

I should add that the second photo from last containing two photos is a "before and after" picture!

[micklner]

If this is causing a height problem and the wheels are of the wrong type I may try to get hold of a spare set of P2 spoked tender wheels. Hornby should give me some free for all this QC review work!!

I think they should be sending you a new Loco body too !! .

 

Re the Firebox the only thing I can think off is to release the firebox for the footplate from underneath using a scalpel and hope it springs back into shape and reglue.

 

Re Tender wheels try any from a GN Type tender as they will be the correct type if you have any. They are available as spares from EKM. Hopefully someone will put a Vernier over the Book Law ones for their size.

[pom-pom]

I think they should be sending you a new Loco body too !! .

 

Re the Firebox the only thing I can think off is to release the firebox for the footplate from underneath using a scalpel and hope it springs back into shape and reglue.

 

Re Tender wheels try any from a GN Type tender as they will be the correct type if you have any. They are available as spares from EKM. Hopefully someone will put a Vernier over the Book Law ones for their size.

 

Not having a Vernier caliper to hand I've taken a wheel off each, the A3 and the P2 and photographed them alongside a rule... an approximation I'm afraid but to me the wheelsets look of the same diameter. I understand that both the A3 and the P2 had tender wheels of 4'2" diameter which corresponds approximately with the 16.5mm I can see. So if the tender sits too high it must surely be the frame at some location.

 

Did all A3s have spoked wheels or was this mentioned earlier regarding 2599 only and in a particular timeframe? It's good to see that we can just pop in the green spoked P2 wheelsets... but not so good to see that they cost 12 quid when Hornby could easily have put the P2 ones in. I guess the disc wheels are the self-same ones that are in the A4s?

[Les1952]

In practice, whatever wheels a Doncaster 4-axle tender started with were not necessarily replaced with like after overhaul and wheel turning.

 

it was not unknown for a tender to return to service with a mixture of spoked and disc wheels.

 

There is no definitive list, only the list of what they started with and some occasional subsequent observations.

Les

[pom-pom]

In practice, whatever wheels a Doncaster 4-axle tender started with were not necessarily replaced with like after overhaul and wheel turning.

 

it was not unknown for a tender to return to service with a mixture of spoked and disc wheels.

 

There is no definitive list, only the list of what they started with and some occasional subsequent observations.

Les

 

I can well believe what you're saying Les. Well... as my A3 is now firmly rooted pre 1935 and No. 2599 probably having been built with spoked wheels in 1930... in that short space it couldn't surely have lost all four spoked wheels or at least would be very unlucky. I may give her three spoked wheelsets and one disc for good measure then..!

[mattingleycustom]

Whatever the various faults with the model; most of which I admit I failed to spot. I note that the major retailers appear to have sold out of Book Law already, perhaps it was a short run or a small initial batch ... hopefully the next example will be better researched and put together properly.

 

Glenn

[pom-pom]

Whatever the various faults with the model; most of which I admit I failed to spot. I note that the major retailers appear to have sold out of Book Law already, perhaps it was a short run or a small initial batch ... hopefully the next example will be better researched and put together properly.

 

Glenn

 

Yes, let's hope so. Talking of spotting faults or not, it should be borne in mind that camera lense shortfalls and the element of zoom are factors in how we perceive details. For example, the lining, black band inside white, looks good to me on the model but my camera clearly couldn't cope too well. The front buffer beam rightly looks a mess as Mick mentioned - it looks off on one side. But in reality you have to struggle and get down real close to observe this, I would never say it sticks out in any sense as the way the front footplate kicks up at the front and dips below the firebox. Likewise the '5' numeral being at a slightly different height is not something I notice or jars as we now know that various locos had that feature if only temporarily. But we all have our own standards. I would hazard a guess at the poor assembly and distortion of the footplate/running plate being a show-stopper for many. Or it might be after purchase as it will glare back!

 

For those crazy people like me looking for potential fixes to the assembly errors in the distortion of the footplate/running plate under the cab, I have noticed that on the right-hand side of the loco the running plate as it curves up and traverses the driving wheels is not flat in this plane above the latter. It's not parallel with the rails. In other words, if two vertical measurements are taken through the axis of the front and rear driving wheel from running plate down to rail, the measurement is not the same (about a millimeter difference). This is all part of the same distortion that creates the gap under the firebox but on the right-hand side it starts earlier front to back. The scalpel under the cab idea sounds best so far if anyone's feeling brave!

[Retro_man]

Has anyone returned their A3 to Hornby or reported the errors in livery and assembly to Hornby?

 

Just curious.

 

Steve

[pom-pom]

Has anyone returned their A3 to Hornby or reported the errors in livery and assembly to Hornby?

 

Just curious.

 

Steve

 

I think we're still in the error list collation stage as yet! In no way can I return mine as I'm way into somewhat foolhardy perhaps corrections and modifications. One thing I should note is that I'm very pleased with the way it runs and it can handle a fairly heavy train.

 

Latest on mine:

 

(1.) I have found out why the loco will not round curves less than the standard '4th radius' curve. The front footsteps are the collision area with the leading wheels of the front bogie. The reason why is that the factory have glued the steps on way too far back from the bufferbeam. This is not evident on the Railroad version of Flying Scotsman currently available.

 

(2.) Replacement of the tender wheels with P2 spoked green wheels has made the tender look far better if these are the wheelsets that were predominantly used. However, in motion spoked wheels illustrate well how the third wheelset does not rotate whatsoever and the first wheelset only partially. In other words the tender is running on the second and fourth wheelsets only. I believe this problem has nothing to do with the wheelsets themselves... more investigation needed as to why this is occurring.

[toboldlygo]

I think we're still in the error list collation stage as yet! In no way can I return mine as I'm way into somewhat foolhardy perhaps corrections and modifications. One thing I should note is that I'm very pleased with the way it runs and it can handle a fairly heavy train.

 

Latest on mine:

 

(1.) I have found out why the loco will not round curves less than the standard '4th radius' curve. The front footsteps are the collision area with the leading wheels of the front bogie. The reason why is that the factory have glued the steps on way too far back from the bufferbeam. This is not evident on the Railroad version of Flying Scotsman currently available.

 

(2.) Replacement of the tender wheels with P2 spoked green wheels has made the tender look far better if these are the wheelsets that were predominantly used. However, in motion spoked wheels illustrate well how the third wheelset does not rotate whatsoever and the first wheelset only partially. In other words the tender is running on the second and fourth wheelsets only. I believe this problem has nothing to do with the wheelsets themselves... more investigation needed as to why this is occurring.

 

Check for signs of flash where the axles sit in the tender chassis, also check that the pick-ups aren't fouling the wheels.

[Les1952]

Looking at the front footsteps and comparing the real thing with the model.

 

Your front footsteps aren't  "too far back", they are too near to where they ought to be.

 

Les

[pom-pom]

Looking at the front footsteps and comparing the real thing with the model.

 

Your front footsteps aren't  "too far back", they are too near to where they ought to be.

 

Les

 

Sorry Les, I should clarify what I meant by "too far back" as it wasn't the clearest of descriptions. If you check the attached photo, although the real 2599 is at a different angle it seems clear to me that the footsteps front-most edge is immediately behind the front bufferbeam. On the Hornby model you can see that there's quite a gap. Not only that but the footsteps are glued in place higher up - the lower step should be below the centre point of the leading bogie wheel. And upon yet closer scrutiny the vertical distance between the two steps differs... these steps may not have been designed for this model. Isinglass drawing anyone?

 

From the side view of the steps and the front view posted earlier it's fairly evident that anything under '4th radius' curves are going to pose problems primarily because of the incorrect step positioning. Simple solution - cut them off and reattach.

 

I've noticed from photos that some A3s had the steps and others didn't, possibly at different times.

 

Nick

[pom-pom]

Sorry Les, I should clarify what I meant by "too far back" as it wasn't the clearest of descriptions. If you check the attached photo, although the real 2599 is at a different angle it seems clear to me that the footsteps front-most edge is immediately behind the front bufferbeam. On the Hornby model you can see that there's quite a gap. Not only that but the footsteps are glued in place higher up - the lower step should be below the centre point of the leading bogie wheel. And upon yet closer scrutiny the vertical distance between the two steps differs... these steps may not have been designed for this model. Isinglass drawing anyone?

 

From the side view of the steps and the front view posted earlier it's fairly evident that anything under '4th radius' curves are going to pose problems primarily because of the incorrect step positioning. Simple solution - cut them off and reattach.

 

I've noticed from photos that some A3s had the steps and others didn't, possibly at different times.

 

Nick

 

I'm probably being over-critical now but notice in the two photos above that the makers plate on the smokebox is in the wrong position. And also Mick's assertion that the cylinder cover should be lined in red is certainly true. The black and white photo is 2599.

[pom-pom]

I'm probably being over-critical now but notice in the two photos above that the makers plate on the smokebox is in the wrong position. And also Mick's assertion that the cylinder cover should be lined in red is certainly true. The black and white photo is 2599.

 

I hate to say it but that smokebox on the Hornby model looks to be longer than that of the real No. 2599... in front of the chimney. Could be the angle. I think I'm going to stop looking at real photos, it's clearly not good for you...

[Mike at C&M]

"Book Law" is sold out from Hornby, and there are no more.

 

I have a damaged one being returned, and all they can offer me is either a credit, or a possible repair of what I send back. Needless to say, I now have one customer who has waited over 2 years for an A3 that fits into his modelling era, whose comments are unprintable.

[Ian Hargrave]

"Book Law" is sold out from Hornby, and there are no more.

 

I have a damaged one being returned, and all they can offer me is either a credit, or a possible repair of what I send back. Needless to say, I now have one customer who has waited over 2 years for an A3 that fits into his modelling era, whose comments are unprintable.

Now does not that put everything in a clear perspective?

[darren01]

Hi 

looking at the photo you have put up of the model and the real one, another thing is, why have they add extra pipe work on the smoke box, next to the makers plate?.

Also the model looks like the buffer beam has a sky slop rise to it, if you look at the front bogie wheel and compare it to the next one the gap looks bigger .

Darren

Edited July 16, 2015 by darren01

[pom-pom]

Hi 

looking at the photo you have put up of the model and the real one, another thing is, why have they add extra pipe work on the smoke box, next to the makers plate?.

 

Yes, I noticed that too but I thought I'd let it go. Not sure what the moulded pipework was but it could have been another feature that was on the loco at one point and not other times. It's appearance could be responsible for the makers plate relocation?

[Tony Wright]

Yes, I noticed that too but I thought I'd let it go. Not sure what the moulded pipework was but it could have been another feature that was on the loco at one point and not other times. It's appearance could be responsible for the makers plate relocation?

Because Hornby make both right- and left-hand drive Gresley non-streamlined Pacifics, the higher little valve/wiggly pipe is on both sides. It should only be on the side opposite the drive, not the side with the vacuum ejector pipe. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Tony. 

[pom-pom]

Here's another for you... the tip of the red arrow marks the front-top corner of the smokebox saddle. On the real 2599 this is almost up to the very front edge of the smokebox whereas on the Hornby model the smokebox extends beyond this point...

 

If someone kindly measures the smokebox length on a 4mm scale drawing then I'll measure the model. Were smokeboxes of different lengths based on the boiler fitted? Can we date the model 2599 exactly by this?

[pom-pom]

Now does not that put everything in a clear perspective?

 

I would be interested in hearing your perspective in more perspective Ian! Do you imply that this A3 sold out as most people were really not as bothered about the assembly/livery issues as us? Surely a sell-out initiates a production re-run? Sorry if I'm being naive, I'm not that aware of the business logic of the big manufacturers.

[Tony Wright]

Here's another for you... the tip of the red arrow marks the front-top corner of the smokebox saddle. On the real 2599 this is almost up to the very front edge of the smokebox whereas on the Hornby model the smokebox extends beyond this point...

 

If someone kindly measures the smokebox length on a 4mm scale drawing then I'll measure the model. Were smokeboxes of different lengths based on the boiler fitted? Can we date the model 2599 exactly by this?

Dear pom-pom ( I wish I knew your name).

 

I've checked against the Isinglass drawing and the smokebox saddle appears to be spot on for the Hornby A3. 

 

 

It might be the angle of your picture which appears to indicate a difference. Here's one of my modified Hornby A3s, with the superfluous valve/wiggly pipe removed and the lower one made of 5Amp fusewire. Apart from having to paint the bogie wheels, it's well worth replacing them with Markits or Gibson LNER types, for the Hornby originals are pretty grim. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Tony. 

[darren01]

Hi Tony

Your right about the wheels i change all my non driving wheels on my loco's, they look so much better.

Darren

[pom-pom]

Dear pom-pom ( I wish I knew your name).

 

I've checked against the Isinglass drawing and the smokebox saddle appears to be spot on for the Hornby A3. 

 

Loco improve 07.jpg

 

It might be the angle of your picture which appears to indicate a difference. Here's one of my modified Hornby A3s, with the superfluous valve/wiggly pipe removed and the lower one made of 5Amp fusewire. Apart from having to paint the bogie wheels, it's well worth replacing them with Markits or Gibson LNER types, for the Hornby originals are pretty grim. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Tony. 

 

Hi Tony,

 

sorry about that, my name is Nick. Ah, well that's a relief about the smokebox length, thank you. And thanks for the tip on replacement bogie wheels, I'll look into this I think. I must say your A3 looks great - I particularly like your attention to detail with the 5Amp fusewire.

 

Nick

[Ian Hargrave]

I would be interested in hearing your perspective in more perspective Ian! Do you imply that this A3 sold out as most people were really not as bothered about the assembly/livery issues as us? Surely a sell-out initiates a production re-run? Sorry if I'm being naive, I'm not that aware of the business logic of the big manufacturers.

You are jumping to conclusions.My perspective is that it's immaterial what anyone thinks of the model because we're not getting any production rerun any time soon,if at all,given the difficulties all manufacturers are experiencing at the moment.The implication incidentally is one of your own thinking and not mine.You have your issues with this model....of that we are all well aware....and I am on record as respecting that. Equally,they are not mine....and I expect the same consideration from you in return....without quite unnecessary inquisitorial overreaction.