AndyID Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 My rather cramped low-level terminus has seven turnouts and one diamond crossing. Two of the turnouts have the same 5.75 crossing ratio. If I understand how this is supposed to work, that means I should only have to design most of the crossing once and apply it to both turnouts. This is a screen shot of a CAD "block" that contains what I think should be common to both turnouts. The yellow dot at the intersection of the three axes is the reference point for this particular block. In theory, to make more turnouts with this crossing ratio, all I have to do is drag the block on to the template and plonk the yellow dot at the fine point of the crossing Vee, then grab the green X dot and rotate the block to align the timbers with the timber outlines on the template. I've found the most time-consuming bit of the CAD work is assembling all the bits to make the frog. If I was making a lot of turnouts I would invest the time to make blocks for a range of crossing angles. That would greatly speed up the process for any subsequent turnouts with one of those angles. I think it should be possible to do the same sort of thing for the switch end of turnouts. Connecting the crossings and switches should then be fairly trivial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hello, The main thing about 3D printing is the need to master the various skill sets required.CAD programs,3D printer maintenance and repair,possibly building your own.You will probably need skills with electronics which means expanding basic knowledge in that field as well.You need knowledge of track technology both past and present and the skills to construct it as well.You also need to be well versed in the use of Templot as peoples expectations will far exceed the capabilities of the technology however much it progresses. Before you know it you can't find enough time in the day for it all. Add to that the time needed for railway modelling and the days are too short. I forgot about life in general which has a habit of introducing unexpected things that derail(what a pun) everything. You can add learning about computers to the mix as well. It is all good interesting and fun though. I just need to take my tablets. trustytrev. I totally agree. I have never found CAD at all easy (although it is no doubt a lot easier than when I first tried 15 years ago). But one can buy in help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Modelling British track with bullhead rail and chairs makes this far easier than modelling flatbottom. Even with the best current 3D printing tchnologies pandrol clips or track spikes are a bit small and weak to hold the rails. Actually you only have to see how weak Peco injection moulded flatbottom track is to see the issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2015 Modelling British track with bullhead rail and chairs makes this far easier than modelling flatbottom. Even with the best current 3D printing tchnologies pandrol clips or track spikes are a bit small and weak to hold the rails. Yes, but 3D printing is a rapidly evolving technology so 4mm pandrol clips may be possible soon. But even now, 3D printing of the turnout base from Templot is a bonus with moulded pandrol clips available from Peco which could be stuck to the base. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2015 My rather cramped low-level terminus has seven turnouts and one diamond crossing. Two of the turnouts have the same 5.75 crossing ratio. If I understand how this is supposed to work, that means I should only have to design most of the crossing once and apply it to both turnouts. This is a screen shot of a CAD "block" that contains what I think should be common to both turnouts. The yellow dot at the intersection of the three axes is the reference point for this particular block. In theory, to make more turnouts with this crossing ratio, all I have to do is drag the block on to the template and plonk the yellow dot at the fine point of the crossing Vee, then grab the green X dot and rotate the block to align the timbers with the timber outlines on the template. I've found the most time-consuming bit of the CAD work is assembling all the bits to make the frog. If I was making a lot of turnouts I would invest the time to make blocks for a range of crossing angles. That would greatly speed up the process for any subsequent turnouts with one of those angles. I think it should be possible to do the same sort of thing for the switch end of turnouts. Connecting the crossings and switches should then be fairly trivial. Xing575.jpg Yes, I think you have this absolutely right. It is the basis of the former Lima/Rivarossi range of trackwork as well and certainly how I would be looking to produce pointwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 hmm, just pondering printing sleepers with baseplates for the rails and holes in the correct position for (real) track spikes. On the diamond I got printed, I got around the problem by making the rail be sandwiched between printed representations of the inside of cast crossings and the wing rails and supergluing it place, but this wouldn't work for longer sections of plain rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi John, I would be interested to see what people thought of an exhibition model that used it. Unfortunately it's a bit unlikely that my layout will ever be exhibited in the UK, and if I did take it to a show in the US the reaction would be "entertaining". Andy Andy Good evening, I tried to rush off a reply at 6 am before going to work. Glad if failed as I have thought more about it If you had a layout the scenic side would to somewhat detract the focus away from the track, yes a layout/Cameo with just the trackwork would be much better. As a demonstration piece would be the best option in my opinion. Also the type of show would also be important, a small one attracting the family/out of the box brigade would not necessarily understand what you have achieved. Also at the other end the Nationals would be a bit too big, St Albans all be it at the smaller end, Railex and Alley Pally at the larger end would attract knowledgeable modellers and possible punters. Also the society shows EM or P4, but they would expect models in their standards. Modelu who were doing scanning and 3D printing have been well received and the detail they are achieving is stunning, so 3D printing is one of the ways forward for the hobby. In my view the chair detail is just as important as ease of building, also if selling in the UK the turnouts must be to the same size/scale as both SMP/C&L flexi track Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Modelling British track with bullhead rail and chairs makes this far easier than modelling flatbottom. Yikes! It "only" took me about four months to come up with a bullhead chair I was happy with. I better stay well clear of flatbottom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted December 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2015 Andy, thanks so much for sharing your experiments and development as you went along. I really like the look of the turnout and diamond crossing. I have built with chairs and Templot, and though I really like the look of the finished articles, it took me a long time. I am also very attracted by your comment that you have not had to do any adjustments with gauges etc once the rails are in. Please keep sharing your progress. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hi Andy, I've come to you thread via one of the current OO discussions. Just to say therefore that your results so far look most impressive and looks like there is a possible solution here to the OO conundrum. Who knows what this technology will be capable of in five years time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 trustytrev I think the idea is that someone starts up a cottage industry to supply the prints either themselves or via one of the printing companies As for Andy, he seems to enjoy this development and its to assist him modelling. He has stated that if he were to do this commercially (which he has said he is not) then he would approach the design in a different manor which will be less time intensive. look at what Modelu3D are doing and the results being achieved. Before this will have an impact on the likes of C&L/Exactoscale let alone Peco there is a lot of development to do, but its a fantastic start Hello John, What would be good for this to take off would be a source of printing files available for people to print stuff on their own printers. Learning the CAD skills and being able to create the required components for printing is such a huge task when one considers the variables in chairs alone. Printing the timbers as separate width strips that could be cut to length would be quite easy or even individual length timbers/sleepers. Any altruistic CAD users out there? How about an S1 chair for starters anyone? I have a printer myself but mastering a CAD program is on the roundtoit list still. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 As I have quite a lot of FB rail that I will use at some point I thought I better see how difficult it is to grip FB rail. In terrifying close-up - These clips hold the rail quite effectively. The two "bumps" might represent spikes, but they are purely cosmetic. The rail is actually trapped in a sort of dovetail slot in the baseplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Andy A great idea, why two clips, would not one be easier The Manchester model railway club/society has a very useful section on flatbottom chairs/clips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Andy A great idea, why two clips, would not one be easier The Manchester model railway club/society has a very useful section on flatbottom chairs/clips Oh, I was just messing about to see what might work mechanically. I'll try to find some images and make something that might be more realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Oh, I was just messing about to see what might work mechanically. I'll try to find some images and make something that might be more realistic. Try this link http://mmrs.co.uk/technical-articles/modern-permanent-way/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Pics here http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/track.htm and drawings here http://www.norgrove.me.uk/GWRtracknotes/R4154.pdf and other sheets in the same folder. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Keith and John - Many thanks for the links. I took a shot at Pandrol plates and fasteners. So far, the results are unfit for publication, but as Pandrol was/is very common, it would be good if that can be made to work. Failing that, the three spike plate method will not look too bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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