RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think there are two separate but linked issues, should the livery be correct and are we OK to accept errors. The answer to the first issue is undoubtedly yes. The answer to the second is it depends. I'm generally not too worried about the livery errors we see and just live with them but there will be errors I'd consider would prevent me buying a model. On the question of Hornby not wanting to be named and shamed, in any business you will face the consequences of supplying product which can be criticised and have to be capable of taking criticism. In the case of Hornby it is a bit of embarrassment and stroppy internet postings, many members of this board would face far more serious consequences if they make a mistake and have to live with some pretty serious legal responsibilities. I think it all depends on tone, if feedback is presented in a positive way as constructive feedback then companies should welcome it. If it is a stroppy diatribe then I don't blame companies for just ignoring it. I'm a huge fan of Hornby and honestly haven't been overly bothered by the errors on models I've bought but I also think it is reasonable to point out such errors so Hornby are aware of them and can learn from them. That is not anti-Hornby or Hornby bashing, I'd actually consider it a means of supporting and helping Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2015 I am not at all sure that the lettering on the dials in the cab of the A4s is the correct font. Also the white on the dials is a trifle too bright. Another point, shouldn't the dials have a gloss finish to simulate the glass? Just put yourself in the shoes of whoever receives your list of faults at Hornby. What exactly are they supposed to do with it? There is little point in Hornby spending their time (and money) investigating errors on models that have already been produced. The chances of them giving a detailed response as to how such errors happened is virtually nil. What are they supposed to say. "Mr Cheng was having a bit of a stressful day and didn't notice that the lettering should have a border but we have fired him and got a replacement who has promised to do better". Would any of us who have ever worked for a living tolerate a situation where if we made a mistake we had to give a public explanation of what we had done and how we were going to avoid it happening again for possible publication on a web forum? If I was at Hornby I would simply reply with a "Thank you for bringing these matters to our attention and we hope that future productions will be to your satisfaction" letter. The point of mentioning it is , of course , to prevent repetition of the issue should there be a second batch . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2015 The point of mentioning it is , of course , to prevent repetition of the issue should there be a second batch . I don't have a problem with the idea of telling any manufacturer (it seems odd to single out Hornby but there you go, that is common on RMWeb) of a fault on the model. It is the idea that Hornby should be asked to explain how the error arose and to advise what they are going to do to prevent it happening again that seems a step too far. The answer is probably to do more research and development before a model is released. That will increase the costs and therefore the price of the finished model. The same people who moan about the odd slight error will probably be the same people who complain when the price goes up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes and I'm a complainer on price, which is why I won't be forking out £155 on Book Law. I think if you look back I'm equally scathing between Hornby and Bachmann . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Agreed - the Bachmann thread on the modified hall is pretty scathing on them too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes and I'm a complainer on price, which is why I won't be forking out £155 on Book Law. I think if you look back I'm equally scathing between Hornby and Bachmann . That's OK then. As long as you are balanced and moan equally about everything, that is fine. What is happening to our hobby? Once upon a time people bought the latest Triang/Hornby production and immediately set to work seeing what they could do to improve it, to put some of their own skills and abilities into what was going to run on their layout, Nowadays, it seems that only a perfect model at a rock bottom price will satisfy some folk. Very sad. Off down the shed now to do an hour or two of modelling. Some of you may remember just what that is.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Colour is as Chris Leigh has pointed out is subjective,until the mid 60s it was hand mixed and so variations existed. Colour photos sometimes show variations between coaches for example which due to the consistency of the colour of the surroundings cannot be down to the film or the age of the photo. What truely can be considered a livery error is the production of a model in a livery it never carried, even then the "experts" on this forum get it wrong - the khaki City from Bachmann for example which after numerous postings was proven to be perfectly accurate. The one livery error that bemuses me continuously is Dapols continuing production of its N gauge Southern CCT as a LMR maroon vehicle whilst never offering it correctly as SR crimson liveried vehicle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I do get the point of this thread as I have been let down badly by Hornby's lack of care recently having spent £400 on the executive HST to get a box that has the correct livery on the power cars but not the actual models , a buffet car that's missing the roof vents and the TGS that has the wrong interior! I was happy to take a £40 Lima model and spend time and money detailing etc but these are marketed and priced as top of the range I think we expect care and QC before these are sent out. I think Hornby make some great models well worth the money but they have proved in the past how good they can make these models that these errors are all the more frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 ... these are marketed and priced as top of the range I think we expect care and QC before these are sent out. "Stuff" happens, but that's a fair statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think there are two separate but linked issues, should the livery be correct and are we OK to accept errors. The answer to the first issue is undoubtedly yes. The answer to the second is it depends. I'm generally not too worried about the livery errors we see and just live with them but there will be errors I'd consider would prevent me buying a model. On the question of Hornby not wanting to be named and shamed, in any business you will face the consequences of supplying product which can be criticised and have to be capable of taking criticism. In the case of Hornby it is a bit of embarrassment and stroppy internet postings, many members of this board would face far more serious consequences if they make a mistake and have to live with some pretty serious legal responsibilities. I think it all depends on tone, if feedback is presented in a positive way as constructive feedback then companies should welcome it. If it is a stroppy diatribe then I don't blame companies for just ignoring it. I'm a huge fan of Hornby and honestly haven't been overly bothered by the errors on models I've bought but I also think it is reasonable to point out such errors so Hornby are aware of them and can learn from them. That is not anti-Hornby or Hornby bashing, I'd actually consider it a means of supporting and helping Hornby. Fully agree with that and that's what I am trying to do. Sadly not many on here understand that. If I say something good it's a problem and if I am trying to pass on info for the betterment of Hornby it's still perceived wrong. Glad you think along normal lines. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2015 That's OK then. As long as you are balanced and moan equally about everything, that is fine. What is happening to our hobby? Once upon a time people bought the latest Triang/Hornby production and immediately set to work seeing what they could do to improve it, to put some of their own skills and abilities into what was going to run on their layout, Nowadays, it seems that only a perfect model at a rock bottom price will satisfy some folk. Very sad. Off down the shed now to do an hour or two of modelling. Some of you may remember just what that is.......... But how can you do said modelling without knowing the errors in the model? Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2015 That's OK then. As long as you are balanced and moan equally about everything, that is fine. What is happening to our hobby? Once upon a time people bought the latest Triang/Hornby production and immediately set to work seeing what they could do to improve it, to put some of their own skills and abilities into what was going to run on their layout, Nowadays, it seems that only a perfect model at a rock bottom price will satisfy some folk. Very sad. Off down the shed now to do an hour or two of modelling. Some of you may remember just what that is.......... I think Shunny answers it pretty well in post 34. There are things you would be prepared to do on a £40 model that you won't do on a £200 one ( HST power cars now costed at £209) . If no one complains then all that happens is that mistakes are perpetuated and manufacturers think they can continue to increase prices ad infinitum. Now you can point this out or adopt an Ostrich approach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2015 Indeed, there is a question of expectation and whilst many buy Railroad models precisely because they want to detail them, the main range models should reasonably be a good representation out of the box given the current state of model design and manufacturing capabilities. That is not to demand perfection as any product is a compromise but if you see a need to re-number a model to get the correct font then it is reasonable to not be particularly happy about that. To be clear, this is not a Hornby issue, this thread is Hornby but the OP clearly has an interest in Hornby and the thread is about Hornby but the actual issue is a universal one. Like I say, in the models I've bought with errors or QC issues I've noticed some of them, some have been pointed out in reviews here and in magazines but I am still happy with the models but I still think it right that Hornby are aware of such issues so as to feed into product improvement. The same is true for Bachmann, Dapol and Heljan and it will no doubt be true for DJM, Rapido, Oxford etc in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2015 Welcome to the latest version of... "Lets Knock Hornby....? Stewart It isn't Hornby who has got the liveries wrong but the real thing has. :nono: A model railway mate of mine use to work in bulk handling machinery for various comodities. Most of his work was rail related. One company he was dealing with were presenting their customers and other clients with a model wagon. My mate pointed out to them that the model comapny (Lima) had got some of the livery detail wrong. A few weeks later the real wagons started to appear as per the models. :locomotive: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2015 I am not against commenting on errors in models. It is not as if any slight error will ever slip under the radar, with the in depth reviews in magazines and the even more immediate mass expertise on RMWeb. So I don't think that there will ever be a significant error that people don't know about. I just feel that it is unrealistic to expect Hornby or anybody else to produce a model at a particular price, then, when it is less than perfect, that they should be expected to explain how they got it wrong and tell the world how they are going to avoid such mistakes in the future. It has to be up to the individual just how much they are willing to accept, compromise on or deal with on a particular model. A slightly incorrect font may be acceptable to 99% of people who purchase a model and the other 1% may want to remove the offending lettering and replace it with more correct versions. If neither of those suits you, then just don't buy the model. The best way to encourage Hornby etc. to improve their products is to not purchase any that are sub standard. I am sure that if Hornby had a choice of shifting a production run of a model and having one or two people moaning a bit about it, or having them left on the shelves, I know which they would prefer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2015 ,Andy has been quietly tearing his hair out That I would like to see! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 All the locos I have bought from Hornby are to 1/76 scale (4mm = 1 foot) but they have all been a scale 7" under gauge - will this be included in the list of faults ? . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2015 That I would like to see! Too late, much too late... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2015 Hi Jeffery What is the point of this thread? We all can read the reviews, and comments OR even make up our own minds on a new model. All companies make mistakes with most models, but we still buy them. So do they listen, maybe sometimes but they never learn. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92038-jb-models-1450-187-176-scale-models-and-detailing-parts/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1949935 And there is no need to get in a huff because we all haven't joined team Jeffery in making a list of "What is crap!" My mate Lloyd summed things up that is why I have his quote on my signature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted July 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well that's a relief. Thank you,Clive.I notice there is no opportunity for a reply or comment.Further comment is unnecessary but I wonder for how long this self-imposed exile will last.Or do we await the "Lassie come home,all is forgiven " call. As Robbie Burns once famously said...." Oh would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.