Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

While waiting for the motor and gearbox for the Q7, I delved into another box, recently received from Arthur. This one contains the kit, albeit one of the pre-production run, for the D20. This will be 62396 which was one of the last surviving D20's and which was the only one which ever carried the later BR crest, which it did during its last months in 1957.

 

This loco had the deeper Raven frames fitted and also retained its North Eastern pattern smokebox door right up to its withdrawal from Hull Botanic Gardens shed where it was allocated through the 1950's and probably earlier.

 

So a start has been made on this with the folding up and assembly of the footplate; the fitting of the bolts to the Raven frames and their attachment to the footplate, along with the lamp irons.

 

Both cab/splasher sides have been cut out and the cab rear beading, window surrounds and splasher beading fitted, along with the internal window slides. My method for fitting the various beadings is to first very carefully and very slowly cut out the beading then very slowly and with a very fine (actually quite worn) file, remove any cusps from the beading. To do this, the beading must be held as close to the filing action as possible and, ideally, the file is used obliquely or even longtitudinally, rather than perpendicular to the part being filed. This to reduce the bending moment on these very delicate etched parts and to avoid distorting them.

 

The beading is then tinned, very lighty, and avoiding any solder running onto the upper face of the beading. After tinning I then further thin the tinning with a very fine file to remove any prominent areas, where the solder might ooze out. Applying loads of flux to the part to receive the beading, and then carefully positioning the beading I then run a 'hot and dry iron' over the beading. On the cab rear and window beading, the edges can then be soldered, again using an absolute minimum of solder and immediately cleaning off any excess solder with fine files and the glass fibre brush.

 

One cab/splasher side has had its handrail stanchions fitted, - the other side will follow - and the splasher top for one side has been formed, again the other will now follow. These splasher tops are formed just using finger pressure on the larger radius and a suitable diameter former on the smaller radius. Then the radii are adjusted by eye and by trial and error until they match the splasher side as closely as possible. As an example, the splasher top shown in the photo below, took around thirty minutes to bend up and then adjust to the shape and radii of the splasher side.

 

To get to here has taken about two full days of work but I do tend to go very slowly on these early stages, as these set the basis for the entire model.

 

Now, before any of this is soldered up, comes the checking to ensure that everything which should be straight, is straight, that everything matches in terms of radii, fit into the slots, etc. Nothing will be soldered up until I'm satisfied that everything fits with no gaps showing and with no requirement for any additional filling.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER Q7

 

One of the interesting aspects (among so many interesting aspects) of doing these test builds is that often, at the outset, we don't know which gearbox and motor combination we will use. Moreover, we often don't know what gearbox and motor combination we can actually get into the model. This is certainly true on the Q7!

 

Ideally, on the Q7 we would mount the gearbox on the rearmost axle to avoid the gearbox being visible. However, neither I nor Arthur are particularly keen on using the fourth axle of an eight coupled loco as the driven axle, preferring to use the second or third axle if possible. Clearly, if the second axle is used then both the gearbox and the motor will be visible, so that leaves the third axle as the preferred option. So if we use the High Level products then the obvious choice for the gearbox is the Roadrunner Compact Plus which will sit nicely on the third axle and will also sit horizontally, facing rearwards, between the mainframes, almost invisible when the loco superstructure is fitted. This with the 54 : 1 gearing which is the lowest available ratio on this gearbox.

 

Having made that decision, then the next decision is the motor type and its orientation. Given the size of the Q7's firebox and its height above the footplate, then there is ample space to incline the motor vertically or near vertically but how big a motor can be accommodated in this orientation. Well I'll not bore anyone with more of this diatribe; the Mashima 1426 (with one end shaft cropped off) will fit comfortably into the firebox inclined around 15 degrees from the vertical towards the backhead, as in the photo.

 

However, this combination will work with P4 mainframe spacing and may work with EM mainframe spacing; it won't work with OO mainframe spacing as the Mashima motor will not sit down into the mainframes. So more work to do to determine a gearbox/motor combination suitable for an OO build!!

 

So now to complete the wheeling and then fit the motion.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Jol Wilkinson]

Mike,  

 

the Mashima 1024 would fit between OO frames in the orientation you show, but is less powerful.

 

The EMGS manual list the performance characteristics of the Mashima range (also available on the Hollywood Foundry site Mashima http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/mashima.htmr)

 

Jol

[mikemeg]

Mike,  

 

the Mashima 1024 would fit between OO frames in the orientation you show, but is less powerful.

 

The EMGS manual list the performance characteristics of the Mashima range (also available on the Hollywood Foundry site Mashima http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/mashima.htmr)

 

Jol

 

Thanks Jol, you've saved me some work in determining this. And the Mashima comparative performance listing will be very useful; again many thanks.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[MarkC]

Hi Mike. You might want to consider the motors supplied by John Isherwood of this parish through his business CCT. They fit your gearbox nicely; I am using that combination in a Dave Alexander G5 that I'm currently assembling.

 

Brgds

Mark

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike. You might want to consider the motors supplied by John Isherwood of this parish through his business CCT. They fit your gearbox nicely; I am using that combination in a Dave Alexander G5 that I'm currently assembling.

 

Brgds

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Thanks for that. Where can I find details of these motors; do CCT have a website?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

A little more progress on the D20, with both cabsides/splashers soldered into the footplate and the splasher tops then soldered up to the sides and to the cab front.

 

The next stage will be to fashion some weights for the inside of the splashers; this from 1/16" sheet lead. Given the design of the cab interior, then these weights can extend almost to the rear of the cab side sheets (1.25 mm from the rear of the cab side) to allow the cab interior to slide between the sides unimpeded.

 

The model is now supported on one of the plasticard cradles to prevent the footplate from bending, which it might if it were resting solely on the buffer beam and drag beam.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[micklner]

Mark,

 

Thanks for that. Where can I find details of these motors; do CCT have a website?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

See here, I have three but yet to use them.One for the B15 in due course .

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94701-new-palethorpes-van-transfers-from-cambridge-custom-transfers/page-2

[MarkC]

Mark,

 

Thanks for that. Where can I find details of these motors; do CCT have a website?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Hi Mike.

 

John might be along himself, but if you put "Cambridge Custom Transfers" into your favourite search engine then you should find it OK. Apologies, I only have phone 'net access at present, and the URL is in my laptop.

 

Cheers

Mark

 

Edit - I see that Mick has given a good link

Edited January 21, 2016 by MarkC

[Porcy Mane]

If using the Mitsumi M15N-3 series motors be aware that they are nominally rated at 8 volts. Also the mounting holes in relation to the motor flats are diagonally positioned as opposed to being at the more normal 12, 3, 6, and 9 o clock positions. This means some gearboxes need corrosponding mounting holes drilling and some gearboxes with diagonal holes need those holes enlarging to accept 2mm mounting screws.

 

Data sheet is here:

http://www.mitsumi.co.jp/latest/Catalog/pdf/motorav_m15n_3_e.pdf

 

Can be bought in packs of five for a very reasonable £2.73 with free  p& p from here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221957950287?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

You have to supply your own 2mm mounting screws with the ebay examples.

 

P

Edited January 22, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Horsetan]

...I don't know how long that firebox was but it must have been a 'hell of a chuck' for the fireman to reach the front corners with a shovel full of coal!!....

The firebox was long enough to project into about half of the cab!

[ArthurK]

The firebox was long enough to project into about half of the cab!

 

Firebox was nine feet external. Same as B16

 

ArthurK

Edited January 25, 2016 by ArthurK

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

A little more progress on the D20 in between the work on the Q7. The boiler etching has been attended to - just slightly opening up the holes for the handrail stanchions and lightly marking the boiler band locations around the full boiler circumference - before being rolled. This kit, being a pre-production version, didn't contain a rolled boiler, as all of Arthur's kits now do.

 

Once rolled, the boiler was seam soldered and then checked against the cab front petals and cab/splasher sides for accuracy of fit; it should just fit inside the splasher tops, which it does.

 

I know I tend to 'bang on' about this but for those new to kit building, then every stage should be checked for squareness, fit, accuracy, before any fixing is done and with an acceptance that if something isn't quite right then it should be redone, rather than propagating errors, gaps, misalignments on through the build.

 

A quick photo just to confirm the general 'sit' of the boiler - not yet fixed, just resting on the cab front petals - and if all is ok then I can proceed to adding the front circular boiler former and the boiler detailing.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

Firebox was nine feet external. Same as B16

 

GA here

[mikemeg]

LNER D20

 

Thanks to Horsetan for the link to the GA Drawing of the Q7.

 

I hunted around for a photo of 62396, to no avail, so a request to my old mate Mick Nicholson was made. Mick duly obliged with a photo, which must have been taken in 1957, of this loco at Bridlington. During its final year it spent much of the summer working from Hull to Bridlington, though as it was one of - if not the - last of the D20's it did work the odd special.

 

So, 62396 on Bridlington shed in that final year, 1957; and sporting the later BR crest on its tender.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Worsdell forever]

So the model will need the numberplate oval removing? 

[Porcy Mane]

So the model will need the numberplate oval removing? 

... and a wibbly wobbly handrail?

 

p

[mikemeg]

No shed plate and a wibbly wobbly handrail. But the photo is 1957; my model will be 1950 so perhaps a little less battered.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Worsdell forever]

... and a wibbly wobbly handrail?

 

p

Looks like they've been hanging the con rod from it.

 

No shed plate and a wibbly wobbly handrail. But the photo is 1957; my model will be 1950 so perhaps a little less battered.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

I was meaning the large NER oval on the splashers.

[Tim Lewis]

... and a wibbly wobbly handrail?

 

p

It ran with that bent handrail for quite a while.  Coincidentally, my (first) D20 is going to be 62396 too (it had several spells at Tweedmouth/Alnmouth in the 50s)

[mikemeg]

 

I was meaning the large NER oval on the splashers.

 

Paul,

 

If you're referring to the large oval, only present on the right hand (looking forward from the cab) splasher, I believe that was an inspection hatch for the Westinghouse pump. These locos retained their Westinghouse pumps right through their lives, so retained the oval shaped inspection hatch.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 28, 2016 by mikemeg

[Porcy Mane]

If you're referring to the large oval on the right hand (looking forward from the cab) splasher, I believe that was an inspection hatch for the Westinghouse pump.

Dash to find D 20 Photographs.

 

D62360 @ Heaton

 

http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/show/3140/D20-loco-62360-in-the-50s

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/k/killingworth/killingworth(fw_hampson4.1957)old4.jpg

 

P

Edited January 28, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Horsetan]

Thanks to Horsetan for the link to the GA Drawing of the Q7....

 

That firebox is looooong. I don't know how the crew ever had enough space in the cab to work in. 

[ArthurK]

Paul,

 

If you're referring to the large oval, only present on the right hand (looking forward from the cab) splasher, I believe that was an inspection hatch for the Westinghouse pump. These locos retained their Westinghouse pumps right through their lives, so retained the oval shaped inspection hatch.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

The elliptic flap on the RH splasher was indeed to give access to the Westinghouse pump. It was conveniently made the same size as the original cast number plate which was of course on both sides.

 

One thing which doesn't appear to be widely known is that the pump was originally in a lower position (as it was on the classes M and Q) with the exhaust appearing above the splasher forward of the pump necessitating a double bend in the pipe. The steam pipe from the cab was entirely within the splasher. The hole in the splasher top was not circular but was large enough to enable the pump to be withdrawn through the top.

 

ArthurK

[Worsdell forever]

Ah, so it is. It just stands out in the photo, the shadow showing it up. I'm sure it will dissappear when painted.