Costly Car Buying Mistake?

[Tony Davis]

Ok, hands up, I trusted a second-hand car dealer and thinking it might have been a big mistake

 

I bought a car last Tuesday that was advertised as having Full Service History. I test drove it, liked it and paid by bank transfer. I got the car but...... The FSH wasn't available as the guy that sold the dealer the car hadn't dropped it in yet but he would this evening.

 

Except he didn't

 

I called two days later and he was going to drop it in over the weekend

 

Except he didn't.

 

I 'phoned today and he is going to drop it in after work tomorrow.

 

Except I'm assuming he won't.

 

I made a big mistake, I admit that, but the advert clearly stated FSH so I feel I should have some redress under the law. I like the car, I don't really want to hand it back but I wouldn't have paid what I did for a vehicle with FSH.

 

I have been told that the misrepresentation act of 1967 might be appropriate and I am minded to send a letter (assuming the FSH doesn't appear) telling him I want either the FSH within seven days or a refund of an amount that reflects the difference in values.

 

Has anyone had a similar experience, or have any advice/suggestions (apart from "get your brains tested") please?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[Baby Deltic]

Sale of goods act maybe? Maybe involve the TSO as well.

[Tony Davis]

I'll have a look at what that involves, thanks.

[brightspark]

Clear breach of contract. Tell the dealer that he has to meet his obligation or else.

If you like the car and want to keep it, consider settling for a reduction in the price.

[Tony Davis]

Breach of contract as it isn't as described?, do you know if the 1967 act is the one to quote or is there a more appropriate one?

 

regards

[Derekl]

Sales and Supply of Goods Act 1994 seems to be the current applicable legislation. The goods as supplied are not as decribed. The misdescription is material and entitles you to reject. You could also negotiate a reduction in the price to reflect the objective reduction in value (not your perception of the reduction).

 

Best of luck!

[brigo]

You are covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 re the description of the vehicle and by the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014 if you have been misled.

 

Take a look here at the AA site

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_legalrights.html

 

or these ones at Gloucester Trading Standards

 

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0003-1011.txt

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*adv1040-1011.txt

 

Very strange that the dealer would state that the car had a FSH when he did not have it in his possession.

 

Brian G.

[Tony Davis]

Thanks guys, this is really helpful, I will write a letter with the appropriate legislation quoted and see what happens. Fortunately I kept a copy of the original advert.

 

Thanks again

 

Tony

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Very strange that the dealer would state that the car had a FSH when he did not have it in his possession.

 

Careless re-use of 'boiler plate' text cut and pasted from a previous advert is a possible explanation. So easy to do with a computer.

 

If the dealer is on the level and it was a simple slip-up, then the personal low key approach of 'Would you care to discuss this shortfall to arrive at a mutually satisfactory outcome with no fuss or anyone else involved?' is often a winner. Going prepared with the breach of contract route as the next option if this is not amicably received.

[Tony Davis]

I did ask him before I paid for the car if he had the FSH, he said he did, but did not mention anything about it not being on the premises, so I would have thought it would have been a good time to mention that he didn't have it, or had made a mistake on the advert. I really want to believe he is on the level and it is a genuine mistake and I really don't want to get all legal on him, for one thing I have had a bad and costly experience of pursuing things through the courts when I was going through a divorce, and I would rather he just gave me the documents.

 

I will call again tomorrow, see if he has the documents (which will have given him 6 days to get them, (should be enough as the previous keeper lives in the same village as the car dealer), if he doesn't I will send the letter detailing my intended actions.

 

regards

[polybear]

I have been told that the misrepresentation act of 1967 might be appropriate and I am minded to send a letter (assuming the FSH doesn't appear) telling him I want either the FSH within seven days or a refund of an amount that reflects the difference in values.

 

His idea of the difference in values, and your idea, could be vastly different....

Have you contacted the previous owner directly yourself to see if such a FSH actually exists?

Also, the difference in values may not actually cover any possible damage should things go wrong....a missed Cambelt change can prove mighty expensive.  Also, is it a dealer FSH, or Fred Bloggs round the corner FSH?  If it's a dealer, then perhaps ask the previous owner which one, then approach that dealer yourself for confirmation of history held on their systems - most will be able to tell you without problem.

 

Another option may be to insist that the supplying dealer pays for a (good) 1 year independent warranty for the car. Why good?  Many have a list of exclusions as long as your arm...such as insisting the car is serviced properly...

[Tony Davis]

The Telegraph reckons about 20% of the value of the car

[gordon s]

…but it's not only the 20% value depreciation when buying, the car may be less attractive to your buyer and therefore worth less when you come to sell it.  

 

I guess a lot depends on the age of the car, the sums involved and whether or not you see your self keeping it for several years.

[leopardml2341]

Anthony07,

 

If you do write, send it signed for, no dispute about receipt then.

[Tony Davis]

Thing is it's a 2004 car with 90,000 on the clock, it was bought because we wanted something to put the dogs in as they were scratching the new car. The intention was just to keep it until it stopped working.

 

On reflection it's probably best to ask for a full refund and negotiate from there.

[Tony Davis]

Yes, something I learned when sending letters to staff which they would subsequently deny any knowledge of.

 

Anthony07,

If you do write, send it signed for, no dispute about receipt then.

[njee20]

For a 10 year old car you plan to run into the ground? Mountain/molehill mixup I say.

[Guest]

For a 10 year old car you plan to run into the ground? Mountain/molehill mixup I say

 

Maybe it's already been run into the ground?

 

That's the difference.

[Tony Davis]

Exactly, plus, for me anyway, the asking price was not something I can just give away. And a Diesel with that mileage should give me at least another 100k miles if it's been looked after.

 

And basically he's trying to stitch me up, which I don't see why I should just quietly accept.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Exactly, plus, for me anyway, the asking price was not something I can just give away. And a Diesel with that mileage should give me at least another 100k miles if it's been looked after.

 

And basically he's trying to stitch me up, which I don't see why I should just quietly accept.

 

You will have to produce written evidence that the car was being sold with a full service history and at 90,000 miles that would be a lot of paperwork.

 

These days, if you are unhappy with any aspect of a deal on a motor car the principle that I grew up with of caveat emptor no longer applies. As long as the car was offered with a full service history in writing and that history is not forthcoming, then you have redress under the relevant legislation. Under no circumstances quote any legal acts or niceties to him. You are not a solicitor and you are not required to quote these facts because if you get it wrong your case fails and you start over again, whereas if a solicitor does you do have redress. You will not need to get a solicitor to present your case but you should use one to prepare it.

 

It will be vastly easier to demand a full refund and return the car than it will be to obtain a difference in value. The latter will be impossible to prove or substantiate and, by offering to parley, will weaken your case for a full refund. The dealer will be unable to counter claim for the miles you have put on the car as it will not be a discernable figure on a 90,000 mile car. Any visible damage will be a problem and that includes dog scratches and smoking ( if you do ).

 

I think you have been truly done up like a kipper. Most traders would not touch a high mileage like that with a bargepole. I do appreciate that you have mentioned that this is a village location so the dealer might know the car etc etc but in any event even that is a bit fraught with high mileage cars. Your estimate that it will last for another 100K is a tad optomistic unless you are prepared to spend a great deal of money on it and end up with a wreck that stands you in at thousands of irrecoverable pounds sterling. Modern diesels are tough but no more so than their petrol counterparts because they are more highly stressed than they used to be. Another urban myth I am afraid based on the old days when diesels were indeed much tougher than petrol engines but were huge, heavy, slow and noisy because they were basically commercial based engines.

 

My guess is that the dealer over allowed for the car and has partly invented the FSH to try and justify the higher price that digs him out of a hole. He is hoping that you just go away and forget about it.

 

You are faced with two choices. Either use your negotiating skills to obtain a full refund and return of the car with the full back up of the law if needed or use your negotiating skills and not much else to get a partial refund. In my opinion you should go for a full refund and return the car in the same condition as when you received it and then hope that the dealer offers you a reasonable refund and you get to keep the car. I believe the time limit for starting the process is 14 days after your last request for the service history and whichever way you go, start as you mean to go on.

 

There is the third choice which is to just forget about it but that will eat you alive.

 

A seven day letter is the first thing to do and if you think the law may be needed, use a solicitor to compile it and send it. It is important to say to the dealer that you would not have paid the asking or negotiated price without the service history. Be prepared for a cobbled fudge as well although the dealer would be unwise to fob you off with something like that since you are already on edge and you are after a full refund anyway.

 

Do NOT accept any form of warranty. No warranty firm will underwrite that sort of mileage and most of them are worthless in any event.

 

If you do decide ever again to buy a high mileage car, eschew the dealers and buy private at such a  price that you can afford to sell it on after a year or two and buy another one with a top up. We used to call it the banger market.

 

I wish you joy. I spernt thirty years in and around the motor trade and I always buy new. The deals these days are simply awesome and it is no wonder the independent used car trade has shrunk so much

[njee20]

Maybe it's already been run into the ground?

 

That's the difference.

Maybe it has. I'm not convinced that knowing it had new spark plugs 8 years ago or that its 40,000 mile oil change was 2 months late will better inform you on this though!

 

They should have provided one when they said it had one, and fobbing you off is very poor, but I think people are placing too much merit on a few receipts with a vehicle like that. The reality is that it'll likely die because of some terminally high repair bill from a DMF or something, and as you obviously didn't check before you bought it whether it had had such work done you were presumably happy to run that risk?

 

What will the service history really tell you?

[Guest]

Maybe it has. I'm not convinced that knowing it had new spark plugs 8 years ago or that its 40,000 mile oil change was 2 months late will better inform you on this though!

It's a diesel so knowing it had new spark plugs eight years ago would be kind of interesting

[njee20]

Ha! Glow plugs then

[PhilH]

I'd ask him what other lies he's told you.

 

Make sure the ink's dry on the FSH if it turns up, don't want to get your hands dirty as well.

Edited July 27, 2015 by PhilH

[Guest]

Ha! Glow plugs then

 

It is worth giving the 'service history' more than just a cursory glance in case it really does have spark plugs in it. i.e. it's been faked...