PGA, PGA, and/or PGA

[Steadfast]

Interesting topic on the PGAs. Despite being out of era, I've been tempted to do a rake in the Mendip version of Yeoman livery for a few years! There's a pair dumped at Merehead in this livery.

With regards to PTA/JTAs, there are a few trains that are shorter than 18. Although now JYA and JNAs, Chichester takes 14 ( I think, from memory) and some of the London portions are 12-14, but appear to be more since they do the bulk of the journey in a jumbo of 40 odd wagons as far as Acton

 

Jo

Edited January 24, 2016 by Steadfast

[pharrc20]

Very nice sets of wagons there Paul - Nice work

 

Cheers, Bob.

Thanks Bob they don't come out to play too often now but when they do I sometimes try to run the entire rake with a Hornby 60 on the front.

 

Cheers Paul

[pharrc20]

They look excellent Paul, could I ask where you got the etched ladders and walkways from please?

Hi phoenixchris, the etched ladder is the Eckon etched signal laddering that you can buy I think still although you would need to check. It seemed the ideal type of laddering at the time and was pretty sturdy and resistant to damage. The number of rungs may not be quite right I can't just remember now but they look ok.

 

Cheers Paul

[phoenixchris]

Ideal thanks for the info Paul

 

Cheers Chris

[Satan's Goldfish]

A couple of new arrivals. The Caib wagon I assume is a ready debranded Arc. The stone load is interesting, I've never seen aggregate 'clump' before ! Tilbury I'm not sure on, what's their history? I've finally got a Redland hopper on route too so I can start investigating adaptions and Resprays for the Amey hoppers.

 

 

And a brake van. Because. Not sure what for yet but it's interesting colours!

[Fat Controller]

A quick search revealed:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/tbrpga, shewing the wagons

http://www.interserve.com/about-us/our-historygives the company history.

Apparently, the wagons only served for about six years (1980-86) with Tilbury, before being sold to Redland.

[keefer]

Brake vans usually had those yellow panels if they were air-piped with guard's brake valve, often used when a propelling move was needed.

More usually seen on bauxite vans - is it a specific prototype? I think these vans were often stencilled with their route/usage

[eastwestdivide]

On the Tilbury wagons, I noted them as a block train at Stratford in 1984 on "empties to Westbury" according to my notes of the time.

 

Edit: here we go.

 

 

Colour looks a bit faded/dirty from what I remember - don't know if it's the film or the memory that faded.

 

Not sure where the terminal was, but evidently Essex or beyond.

Edited February 15, 2016 by eastwestdivide

[Satan's Goldfish]

A quick search revealed:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/tbrpga, shewing the wagons

http://www.interserve.com/about-us/our-historygives the company history.

Apparently, the wagons only served for about six years (1980-86) with Tilbury, before being sold to Redland.

Thanks Brian, sold to Redland is perfect!

 

Ref brake van: No specific destination written on it. I thought propelling move brake vans had large yellow ends? That's getting off topic though, I'll find a use for it somewhere (didn't vans run with cartics carrying btp and one point?)

[Rivercider]

Here is a set of Tilbury PGAs arriving at Westbury from the London direction in 1982,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/14570020962/in/photolist-ocvaBY-re4ESj-8tWXTH-oup5Wj-ySzVYh-queXY3-hSA2D-pGar1-d4d24y-bkUmLd-npGEjb-reQFmj-esr8QJ-esr957-erc4Za-91S8YQ-91P21V-ghJeys-oup66N-64ALJA

 

cheers

[Satan's Goldfish]

Gonna need to add a raised top to it.

[keefer]

The brake vans I had in mind were TOPS code CAR, examples here:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507

 

I think you may be right about the propelling ones having larger yellow panels (or wasps)

 

There are also some CAQ ones in grey

Edited February 15, 2016 by keefer

[Satan's Goldfish]

The brake vans I had in mind were TOPS code CAR, examples here:http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507

I think you may be right about the propelling ones having larger yellow panels (or wasps)

There are also some CAQ ones in grey

Those aren't far off, the one I received seems to be orange on grey rather than yellow on brown, some creative colouring from Hornby maybe with the orange?

[keefer]

I'm afraid I've pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge of brake vans!

So I couldn't say if it was a real example or not - maybe a more 'recent' eg sector-era livery as grey seemed to come back in as a livery. Of course in BR days grey usually meant unfitted/unpiped.

TBH I thought someone would've been on to confirm or not by now

[Fat Controller]

I'm afraid I've pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge of brake vans!

So I couldn't say if it was a real example or not - maybe a more 'recent' eg sector-era livery as grey seemed to come back in as a livery. Of course in BR days grey usually meant unfitted/unpiped.

TBH I thought someone would've been on to confirm or not by now

Given it's orange, might it be an 'interpretation' of a Loadhaul livery?

[Rivercider]

Thanks Brian, sold to Redland is perfect!

 

Ref brake van: No specific destination written on it. I thought propelling move brake vans had large yellow ends? That's getting off topic though, I'll find a use for it somewhere (didn't vans run with cartics carrying btp and one point?)

I think the application of wasp stripes to brake vans was mostly to some of the few brake vans that survived later specifically for propelling purposes.

 

In the Bristol area in the 1970s and 1980s we had a few regular propelling moves that involved a brake van,

one main line from Avonmouth to Hallen Marsh, and another down the Avonside branch. There was no specific brake van allocated

I think any suitable piped van fitted with a gauge and valve could be used.

Later I think one was regularly used between Taunton Fairwater and the Taunton Cider plant at Norton Fitzwarren.

 

As regards a use for your van, there were one or two Speedlink services that were booked to convey certain types of dangerous goods that regularly ran with an air piped brake van on the rear.

EDIT - specifically on some flows of chemicals in tanks from/to the continent via Harwich or Dover.

like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johndedman/11292975313/in/photolist-pqBLfB-AT54UU-CmcYHv-dYwfZH-atQsLt-duCk9a-kq4Tc2-mhwo5u-q374Re-oQSfKx-e6W772-qmwe9z-x2hjS3-icVs7V-duHU9d-bYHYs3-cyiDLd

 

(ref the cartics with police attendance, was that in the Barking area for car trains from Dagenham?)

 

cheers

Edited February 16, 2016 by Rivercider

[Satan's Goldfish]

I'm afraid I've pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge of brake vans!

So I couldn't say if it was a real example or not - maybe a more 'recent' eg sector-era livery as grey seemed to come back in as a livery. Of course in BR days grey usually meant unfitted/unpiped.

TBH I thought someone would've been on to confirm or not by now

 

Thanks Keefer, it's off topic for this thread anyway so i'm not suprised it's not been confirmed by anyone.

 

Given it's orange, might it be an 'interpretation' of a Loadhaul livery?

 

I think i can remember first seeing it in a Hornby catalogue at some point between 89 and 92 (they're the ones i have from when i was younger and i wasn't aware the modelling world was larger than just Hornby!) so it's pre Loadhaul. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, i'll put it down to some expert R&D by Hornby and weather the ###### out of it!

 

I think the application of wasp stripes to brake vans was mostly to some of the few brake vans that survived later specifically for propelling purposes.

 

In the Bristol area in the 1970s and 1980s we had a few regular propelling moves that involved a brake van,

one main line from Avonmouth to Hallen Marsh, and another down the Avonside branch. There was no specific brake van allocated

I think any suitable piped van fitted with a gauge and valve could be used.

Later I think one was regularly used between Taunton Fairwater anf the Taunton Cider plant at Nortn Fitzwarren.

 

As regards a use for your van, there were one or two Speedlink services that were booked to convey certain types of dangerous goods that regularly ran with an air piped brke van on the rear.

(ref the cartics with police attendance, was that in the Barking area for car trains from Dagenham?)

 

cheers

 

Thanks Kevin, I have an old Bachmann Railfreight Brake Van that i've yellowed and wasp striped the ends of in the box already. It came out a lot better than i expected! Shame it's the version that's underscale in height really.

 

I have no end of various Speedlink related wagons that an excuse could be created for, including an MoD inspired OCA, 5x VEA, OCA (train of boom) that it might work with, or a nuclear flask and barrier HEAs. The videos i've seen of vans with Cartics showed Queen Mary's rather than BR Standards unfortunately.

 

Moving back to the PGAs, a pair of the DCC concepts 'truck tuners' arrived in the post last week so i can start improving the wheel sets in the Lima examples. I've kinda lost count of how many wagons i have for this project now, so once the 'Redland' wagon arrives i'll have a check of how long the rake is (not forgetting the pair of auto ballasters to back date!) and see how it looks.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Closing the brake van chapter! Service department.... apparently!

 

http://www.ehattons.com/64604/Hornby_R089_20_Ton_Service_Department_Brake_Van_B872163/StockDetail.aspx

[keefer]

Apparently ZTR, which seems to be general Departmental brake van (ie not a runner/ match vehicle)

[Satan's Goldfish]

Apparently ZTR, which seems to be general Departmental brake van (ie not a runner/ match vehicle)

 

It clearly knows i deliberately made sure all the stock in my departmental train was air braked so i didn't need a brake van........

[Satan's Goldfish]

13 (possibly 14, ebay pending) plus the 2x KPAs when they're done will make a good 7ft ish of wagons:

 

 

(The board they're on is 6ft long)

 

All need work of some description, the rake will end up mostly Redland or debranded, exceptions being the Tilbury and Tarmac wagons. (Orphan brake van filling in for wagon 14!)

 

Thanks for all the pictures and info folkes, I think I have a plan now.....

[Rivercider]

That is an impressive rake which now looks realistic to me. 

I have mentioned before that the shortest regular block train of PGAs I can remember from the Western Region

was 24 PGAs which ran to Ashford Kent. Somewhere at Ashford the train got split into 2 x 12 PGAs for unloading

as the train always returned marshalled differently. So your rake is getting pretty close.

 

cheers 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Rivercider

[Satan's Goldfish]

It's always tough to find the balance between what looks correct in model form and what's a sensible size to fit on a layout.

[Shed]

anything to report on the PGAs?

[Satan's Goldfish]

Nope, still sat in the projects pile. Modelling mojo is low at the moment and trying to get it back, working too many hours.