Model shops v the Internet & Frustrations

[ronnie thommo]

Before I start the thread, I am aware that I am setting myself up to be shot at, but I am frustrated today.

 

I have been to 2 model shops this week for a simple basic Peco inspection pit

One hadn't got one, and didn't know when he was having any more in, and the other one was closed.

 

Closed on a Friday mid morning ?

And I have been to that same shop on a Saturday and it's been shut.

 

I went to a shop a couple of weeks ago, and the owner was going on about the Internet doing him out of business. He turned on me, when I explained, that as a punter, I will always be drawn to the cheaper prices that the Internet provides as this hobby is now a very expensive one.

 

I also went into a Modelzone outlet which was tucked into a WHSmith and their prices were unbelievable .

I looked at a Hornby locomotive which was £22 dearer than anywhere I had seen on the net

That's a lot of money to a lot of us

 

Because I wanted to continue with my depot scene this weekend as I knew the weather was going to be awful, I set out to get the inspection pit, and can't get one for love nor money.

 

I shall have one on Monday morning though, courtesy of Hattons who have posted it this afternoon

 

Don't get me wrong, it is sad that shops on the high street are closing, but sometimes the shops don't help themselves in my opinion.

 

As an example I have given, what else am I supposed to do ?

 

Comments pls are welcome, do I have a point, do other members feel the same, or am I being harsh

 

Cheers

ronnie

[Chubber]

A Scalescenes download of an inspection kit is free, and in the time you have waited you could have built one three times over. Think yourself lucky you have three model shops that you can visit in the course of one day, my nearest is 60km away and sells only Joueff RTR stuff at about the same price as I paid for my last second hand car in UK.  Stop wingeing and build something. That's my rant over...

 

Now, Ronnie, if I could put that more politely I would, as I'm not unusually unfeeling, unhelpful or rude as most members here would agree, you did say "Before I start the thread, I am aware that I am setting myself up to be shot at, but I am frustrated today...."

 

Doug

[ronnie thommo]

Hi Doug

 

Here,s my rant now

 

I said, Inspection PIT not kit

I didn't say I visited all 3 shops in one day

I do not wish to kit build

Don't whinge about living 60 km away from a Joueff outlet when living in France !

 

Now to put it more politely Doug mate, please read the thread carefully before replying !

 

Ronnie

[Jeff Smith]

Nowadays it's not confined to model railway stuff. I seldom visit any high street shops any more except perhaps for shopping for gifts or something when you are looking for inspiration..... I always turn first to Amazon to get, in most cases, exactly what I want with just a couple of days wait. Otherwise the big box stores which don't stock everything but things can be ordered with free store pick-up in just a few days or in many cases free home delivery.

[ronnie thommo]

Yes Jeff

 

I am of the same opinion

Nobody carries any stock nowdays, and more often than not, you can get any item you wish cheaper on the net, which of course isn't good news for the high street shops

 

BUT, you won't make profits with the shutters on the door on one of the busiest shopping days of the week.

[jjb1970]

Most of the big internet dealers (Kernow, Rails, Hattons, Modelrailwaysdirect, Hereford models etc) are actual model shops with good physical stores. So maybe the debate is about good model shops vs. less good model shops.

[40F]

Hi Doug

 

Here,s my rant now

 

I said, Inspection PIT not kit

I didn't say I visited all 3 shops in one day

I do not wish to kit build

Don't whinge about living 60 km away from a Joueff outlet when living in France !

 

Now to put it more politely Doug mate, please read the thread carefully before replying !

 

Ronnie

 

 

Surely the Peco inspection pit is a KIT or am I mistaken ?  

[ronnie thommo]

Hi JJB

 

You may be right there mate

Rails and Hattons are superb stockists

Helpful, loads of stock at all times, competitive prices. Next day delivery.

 

Can't comment about the others you mentioned as I've never used them

I'm sure they are very good.

 

Although what I wanted today is trivial, it has finally brought it home, that it's getting a waste of time going to other outlets bar the ones you mention, as you either probably won't find what you want, or it will be overpriced. Or the shop will be shut !!

[Chubber]

Hi Doug

 

Here,s my rant now

 

I said, Inspection PIT not kit

I didn't say I visited all 3 shops in one day

I do not wish to kit build

Don't whinge about living 60 km away from a Joueff outlet when living in France !

 

Now to put it more politely Doug mate, please read the thread carefully before replying !

 

Ronnie

 

Oh, so sorry, I should have typed 'Inspection pit kit'  see  http://scalescenes.com/products/R002c...

 

D

[steveb860]

BUT, you won't make profits with the shutters on the door on one of the busiest shopping days of the week.

Are shop owners not entitled to days off or holidays then.

Did you not think to ring ahead to see if the shops have what you wanted?

Do you have any idea how much it costs shops to stock everything?

[ronnie thommo]

Are shop owners not entitled to days off or holidays then.

Did you not think to ring ahead to see if the shops have what you wanted?

Do you have any idea how much it costs shops to stock everything?

 

1) Of course they are. but the second busiest shopping day of the week ?

2) Do you ring Tesco ahead to see if they have got Heinz beans ? In any case, they wouldn't have answered. They were closed.

3) No I don't, however, the 5 shops mentioned above do stock everything

[Jeff Smith]

Do you have any idea how much it costs shops to stock everything?

I guess it all comes down to the business model and the critical mass of the business. If you don't budget for enough stock to keep your business afloat or to expand then you are on the slippery slope of failing.

[Mike at C&M]

I object to the sweeping generalisation that if we are not one of the internet giants, then all other model shops offer a lousy service and are unable to supply anything that anyone might want.

 

There are many medium and small sized model shops around this country that would have been able to supply your needs out of the extensive stocks that they need to carry in order to fulfil most modellers requirements.

 

As for opening hours, many shops, me included, are not open every day of the week, and I too close for a summer break. Information on opening hours can usually be gleaned from adverts, websites, or an e-mail or phone call to the shop. Direct contact could have ascertained whether the item(s) you want are in stock.

 

With good model shops getting fewer and widespread, a little bit of forward planning can avoid disappointment.

[Andy Y]

[gismorail]

Now Ronnie ,,,,the thing is after your  day's of frustration are you feeling any better for your ' keyboard warrior' rant   that's good

I know exactly how you feel and my nearest model shop is over 20 miles away and is a good one but I have called in for a list of items and come away with only 50% of what I wanted. It's the daft little bits a pieces that seem to be hard to source. I have always tried to support my local model shop over the years and have made good friends with people whether it be fellow customers or the owners and enjoy a good 'chin- wag along the way, be as things stand I find myself having to use the internet to make certain that I obtain the items required. 

I would also add that it is also the same with DIY  as I have lost count of the number of times I've done the rounds of the retail parks going from one store to the next looking for a particular items................. again the internet has now come to be the first port of call and I'm afraid that is the way of the world today   

It would seem that RM web has replaced the model shop's in the chin-wag stakes .....

[cromptonnut]

Unfortunately, it's a byproduct of today's "instant society" that we expect to just walk into a shop and get everything we need, when we need it, at the best price - whether it's music, dvd's, food, or model railways.  Real life doesn't work like that.

 

My local model shop (Scale Rail, Horley) doesn't stock everything (they'd need to be 20x the size just to hold it all), but they can order most things and get them in for me within a week - and I've had Hattons orders take 4-5 days when the items have been 'in stock' as the order is just in a queue when they are busy.  Plus, of course, if I'm not at home when the postman comes that's another day (or more) when I can get to the post office to pick it up with my little red card.

 

I also used to make the mistake of driving to Gaugemaster, spending £20 on a round trip in fuel, instead of saving the money and ordering it online; particularly when I'd go down at the weekend then life would get in the way and I wouldn't be able to do anything for three days because I had other commitments in the evening.

 

Now, Scale Rail is also open on Sundays so I can easily pop in for those little things such as track pins that I need - and then work out what I'm going to do next weekend, and pre-order the bits and pick them up the following weekend where I can.

 

But, it's not the end of the world really if we have to wait a couple of weeks to get something for our layouts, as much as we may feel it is. 

 

Remember it's all down to cashflow - shops can't afford to have tens of thousands of pounds worth of stock sitting on shelves that people may or may not buy.  They can only risk stocking the most popular things, and let's not forget that there are also "minimum orders" from places like Hornby now where instead of the one a customer wants the shop may have to order a box of 6 and put the rest on the shelf, hoping they will sell eventually.

 

Unless we use local model shops, instead of ordering everything for convenience, then we will no longer have the choice.  How many times have we wandered into that local shop for something only to walk out with a handful of things we didn't know we needed until we saw them on the shelf?

[ronnie thommo]

I feel that the thread is taking shape nicely with mixed views.

With respect to yourself 87029, I am not daft enough to be saying that days off shouldn't be taken, or more to the point that every shop should stock everything.

 

Let's put some finer detail on the situation.

I decided that I would call for this infamous inspection pit after work today.

I chose today, because I took for granted that the shop would be open today of all days being a Friday.....Not so

This particular shop, closes on a Monday, as it is open on a Saturday...So why is it closed today ?

When this happens, it makes the shop unreliable, so you never know when it is going to be open or closed.

 

The Internet is never closed, and you can find anything you wish by the click of a button.

 

If I was adamant that I wanted to purchase from my local shop only in order to support it, when would I have got the part required today ?

 

Will they be open tomorrow ?

They aren't open Monday

Will they have the part when they finally do decide to open

I do not have time Mon to Thurs due to work commitments to visit

 

So, we are talking this time next week

Forget it. It will be with me from Hattons on Monday and fitted by this time next week.

 

I work long hours 4 days a week with a Friday lunchtime finish

I do not have the luxury of just wandering to the shop, I have to get when I can

I am sure a lot of modellers are in the same position

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I have been involved in attempting to put a model railway shop on the Internet Map.

 

This requires a really sophisticated till and stock management computer which will need the services of an It professional if it goes wrong. Then you need extra staff to answer the phone and deal with the flood of orders via the dedicated website and direct as a result of publishing the phone number plus you require a new dedicated phone line.

 

Then of course there are the man hours required to wrap and send the items ordered.

 

All this and remain competitive on price plus of course your local business will want the same price which erodes that traditional profit avenue.

 

In other words you trade profit for extra turnover and increase the overhead. Hopefully if you get it right, it all meshes together and the profitability of the enterprise rises and stock money is turned over quicker which freshens the stock.........but it doesn't. There is a lot of stuff that is issued by the manufacturer that somehow does not capture sufficient interest or is basically old stock that is readily available everywhere or is best sold in a shop where a customer can make a choice based on price, desirability and budget. Or indeed some stock is not really suiatble for postage due to size or fragility or both. Then of course there are the distance selling rules which basically say that the customer can return the goods and get a refund.

 

There will be a reaction to this Web extravaganza but I am not sure that the model railway dealer is poised to take advantage but for sure, those that decide to eschew commercial premises for a total Internet presence with no shop are likely to do OK until the software or computer hardware breaks and they have to call in outside help or they buy a pup.

 

Probably the best business model is taking stands at exhibitions in lieu of general advertising plus an attractive and comprehensive website that can attract and keep customers with a  combination of ease of use and constant updates .......ah yes, more time invested and this is expertise in computers rather than model railways which the average dealer probably doesn't have or even want.

[ronnie thommo]

I understand fully what the previous thread is saying, but unfortunately the fact still remains, that not just in railway modelling, but in all instances, punters want 2 things :-

 

A product when they want it

The best price for that product

 

By not having that product, or by charging more for it, those punters will go on line

 

I understand fully the problem with overheads, and the need to make a profit from the business, but it's all about being competitive, and as I've said on numerous occasions, it is very much a sad state of affairs when high street shops are dying out because of this.

 

In the model railway world, the likes of Hattons are killing the high street.

They have the stock and they have it in some instances a lot cheaper

 

Who is going to pay more for the same item ?

[ParkeNd]

Unfortunately my experience is that shops of most types are fuelling the expansion of the Internet by not having items in stock. Recent items I have failed to buy in even large versions of stores recently include a Braun electric shaver, a BT corded phone, a Nikon 20mm lens, USB pen drives, Copydex glue, a Braun travelling alarm clock, a Gore Bikewear cycling jersey, Eneloop rechargeable batteries for a flasgun, a 16 Gb compact flash card, 12 pairs of black M&S men's pants, and every single N gauge loco I have wanted this year. All were bought on the Internet after the shops proudly stated they didn't have them

 

So the shops are creating the expansion of the Internet - not the other way around.

[sagaguy]

I think it`s the natural progression of things,first the stagecoach & the canal,the coming of the railway pushed them out of existance.In turn, the car & the lorry did for them.The same thing seems to be happening with the internet which is pushing shops out of buisiness.It`s far easier to sit at a keyboard & order items than it is to drive to hopefully,a local shop,find some where to park or run the gauntlet of the traffic warden,for the price of postage,it`s not worth it.For example,this week,i wanted a pair of headphones.After looking around the net,i found a pair of Roland phones from a big music shop in Blackburn for £25 & free postage.I ordered these on Wednesday morning & DPD were knocking on my door with them on Thursday morning,the following day.With service like that,it`s not worth getting the car out!.I sometimes think that big stores like M & S are simply showrooms for their online buisiness.A lot of model shops have large online ordering facilities,two of which are Hattons,two day on average service & Bourton on the water model shop with next day delivery & free postage on orders over £60.Judging by the numbers of emails in my inbox from,for instance,House of Fraser & Debenhams,it would appear that their online buisiness is bigger than their shop retail sales.

 

                    Ray.

[Dava]

I'm genuinely sorry that model (& record) shops are headed for obsolescence, I spent many leisure hours in both. Here in backwoods Canada you don't find either.

 

I think in the UK the exhibition stands plus Internet retailers fill most of the gap. But you can model many things from basic materials without using a kit.

 

Dava

[Graham Walters]

Ordering online is fine, but I agree with the OP, there are times when you need to see the product in order to know if that is what you actually want, some descriptions on the net can be quite vague, and photo's don't really help.

 

Also to generalise that things are cheaper on the net is a bit of a curved ball, especially on E-bay, as quite often I find the price is bumped up to cover "Free P & P", or the price + P&P takes it way over the RRP, and being a postman I can soon check if I've been ripped off over postage

[Chubber]

Yup, all the usual views and considerations expressed above. Are they perhaps from the perspective of purchasers who want to add something to their train-set 'NOW!'

 

PLAN AHEAD!

 

Whilst I'm moderately sympathetic with someone who wants to progress a project as expeditiously as possible, what's wrong with bulding (modelling) things?

 

The magic of internet allows manufacturers to convince some people they need Harburn Hamlet flower beds at only £9.99p fpr something the size of a half-a-crown (about one-and-quarter inches in diameter/35mm) or Bachmann and Hornby assuring us that without their latest amorphous generic lump of resin purporting to be a garden shed for £14.99 we are doing ourselves a dis-favour.

 

BUILD SOMETHING!

 

Oh, I suppose you've got to buy the fixings from an internet site.....but haven't the suppliers stopped supplying 1/76 thrupple nuts and paxolin greblitts because no-one uses them any more?

 

 

Poop-poop!

 

Enjoy your Saturday, the shops will be packed, the last piece of 2mm grey board in Staples will have a broken corner and that tube of UHU you bought three months ago has turned completely solid as you didn't replace the lid. When you get home without your inspection pit but with a parking penalty ticket to find the cat has been sick in your slippers and there's a message on the answer 'phone from your mother-in-law to say she's visiting for a fortnight you'll have something else to moan about....

 

Doug

 

(Now where did I put that UHU......)

[BlackRat]

Don't forget you have always been able to shop 'online' by picking up a mag, reading through the ads and calling a shop.

 

Remember the Fratton Bargain Shops ad......'Altogether now' where you used to use the Modeller as a catalogue and they guaranteed having anything advertised in stock and would price match.

 

Must have been a big stockroom!

 

Having seen Kernows.........like a veritable Aladdins cave.