Making a start in 7mm for the first time : Now Dominion Dock Goods - Layout update

[Robin Gristwood]

Work was progressing quite well by then. I thought about trying to get one area closer to being finished rather just work across the whole layout, as this would allow me to get to the stage of being able to add some of the scenic detail quicker.

 

I decided that as I had now painted the bridges on the layout, to work on the canal and coal drop area.

 

 

Progress with the canal continued. A mirror was added to the end of tunnel as there was light at the end of the tunnel, but it came from the window behind it and spoilt the effect, hopefully this has been improved somewhat by the addition of the mirror now?

 

   

 

Acrylic sheet was used for the surface of the canal, as access inside tunnel is next to impossible. Everything had to be made and painted on the workbench for insertion as it was virtually impossible to work on any of the items in situ, so the canal wall, ‘water’ (painted flipchart sheet), and towpath, as well as the acrylic sheet could still be removed.

 

I followed the method described by Gordon Gravett for modelling the water surface. Two jars of Tamiya gloss varnish later, used to create three layers of ripples across the acrylic sheet, seemed to create the effect I was looking for.

 

The towpath was covered in a layer of fine coloured sand to replicate the sort of gravel/cinder mix often seen as a towpath. A start has been made on making it look uncared for and weedy.

All the abutments and retaining walls have been glued in place now. Hoping that there isn’t anything I have forgotten to do that needs them to be taken out..!

 

 

 

[Robin Gristwood]

Quite early on I had decided to model the surface of the coal-yard using cobbles. This was made using a removable MDF base to help the actual cobbling process, rather than having to do in situ.

I added Evergreen strip as an edge to mark out the area as well as to provide a base for the buildings and abutments.

 

This helped to roll out the Das clay to the right level, but before that I coated the area with PVA glue, hoping that would help the Das stick to the surface.

 

After a deep breath I started to cut in the cobbles using two tools made from the ferules of old paint brushed bent into a rectangular shape.

 

 

 A drain was added into the middle of the yard, and the cobbles were painted and weathered.

 

 

My friend Brian volunteered to design the building for the coal yard. He mocked up a good design which would work well in the space available.

 

 

This was used to create that final building. As before the brickwork was made using Slaters sheets painted with random greys for the mortar, then the bricks pre-coloured with watercolour pencils, with some individual bricks picked out.

 

 

The rather ornate windows are from York Modelmaking, as is the decorative coving on the main building.

Stairs up to the coal drops walkway was made from some L-Cut signal box steps The building still needs some added details, guttering and weathering of course.

 

 

Originally the idea of putting a building here was to hide the entrance to the fiddle yard, but I hope that although it doesn’t do that now, that there is enough going on to distract from the hole in the wall.!!

 

 

 

I’m pleased how this area is coming together now and I hope it’s starting to create the sort of impression of the era I’m trying to model.

 

 

 

[Robin Gristwood]

Work on the layout stopped for quite a while for various reasons, including a reassessment of what era I wanted to model.

 

I had always had a wish to base it around the early 80’s, when as a student I travelled everywhere by train.

I started buying blue diesels and stock for that period with the thought that I could run the layout in two different time periods.

 

I had noticed though when running operating sessions with friends, that the intensive shunting of wagons needed to operate the layout was taking a long time and, despite all my previous thoughts to the contrary, maybe I should put in some passenger services to break up the schedule. As a ’blue BR’ layout this would need a DMU service, which would be delivered by the Dapol DMU or eventually an EasyBuild 2-car 108, and allow me to bring in more parcels stock too.

 

But despite lots of dummy running using XtrackCad, it seemed hard to justify the coal drops or how to operate the docks line as some sort of branch, as I wanted to move the layout location to the West Midlands.

 

 

A decision had to be taken…

….was it possible to run two different eras without a lot of compromises?

 

…or change to a Blue BR era only layout?

 

…or stick with the early 60’s Mersey Docks?

 

I couldn’t see how I could run two eras with the danger of neither working because of the changes needed.

 

So despite all the recently acquired Blue stock, I decided to stick with what I’d got, but still go ahead with adding a platform, a station building, and passenger stock. I still liked the idea of some parcels trains as this allowed tail end stock on passenger trains too. So as usual foam-core mock ups were quickly made to see how this would look.

 

   

 

One fly in the ointment though was that the cross-over was the wrong way round, and I would have to make a new crossover to allow proper run round of passenger arrivals at the main platform. So the old crossover had to be ripped out.

 

 

New C&L rail and chairs and sleeper bases would be needed and to give myself a refresher course in Templot to create the template to build it. However, I read that the C&L rail profile had been changed and that the chairs had been redesigned to fit, so again my friend Brian came to rescue, giving me his remaining stock of old style C&L bullhead rail, crossing vees and chairs to be able to make a new crossover.

 

A month or so later it was ready to install, connect to the newly laid platform arrival track, wire up and fit the Tortoise motors. The first test run was successful and the track was painted.

The platform now had to be made from foamcore faced with Slaters brick, using the same method outlined by Fastdax in his excellent Offerston Quay thread.

 

   

 

The platform edging stones are from KS Laser (now sold through Intentio). They were stuck to a long strip of channel using double sided tape and sprayed with 'Limestone' aerosol, which gives a slightly rough surface. They were then weathered with MIG Dark Wash and separated from the double sided tape, but kept in the same order, so that when glued down there wasn't a huge change of colour from stone to stone, but each stone did look different enough to my eyes.

 

[Robin Gristwood]

I also noticed that some sort of trap point should really be installed on the run round loop. I hadn’t thought this was necessary when it was goods only operation, but now I couldn’t really get away without some form of protection for the main line.

 

Although I had built a new crossover, that part of the track wasn’t ballasted, and to build an operating trap point would involve removing ballast as well as building the point and linking it to the other point motor.

 

I decided to ‘fake it’. So I have installed what you could perhaps call a cosmetic trap point on the existing trackwork, and even though it doesn’t operate I hope it does give the semblance that there is a trap point there.

 

     

 

A new bracket starter signal for the main platform and bay would be needed to replace the previous shunt signals. This would be my first attempt to build a signal, as all the previous ones had been made for me by Jon Fitness.

 

I bought the MSE parts from Wizard for a LMS cantilever stem bracket signal, but when I started to build it, it seemed far too heavy and bulky for where I wanted to place it.

 

 

Then I saw on Jon Fitness’s thread on here that he was selling his own etches for 2 doll balanced LMS bracket gantry that would be mounted on a round signal post. He had made up one on his thread which looked just what I wanted. So it was duly ordered and speedily delivered. Although it didn’t come with instructions Jon kindly sent an explanatory email detailing the less obvious elements of the build.

Unfortunately, once again I didn’t take any pictures during construction, perhaps just as well as there were one of two hiccups and occasionally the air was blue. Although the bracket itself went together with ease there it was the rest i had trouble with, mostly my own fault too. For instance mounting the dolls the wrong way round first time after carefully threading through all the LED wiring, so it all had to be unsoldered and wires threaded through again; solder on one piece on the doll and another one comes unsoldered; trying to drill the lamps to fit LED from the inside etc. I’m glad I wont have to make any more signals for now.

 

Anyway here it is in its present state with LED’s fitted and wired, and cranks working.

 

 

The deck was scribed and punched from thin veneer before giving it a very thin was of Precision Weathered Wood. It still needs the ladder supports putting on, and the curved safety cage at the back of the platform as well as the other ladder for the higher arm. I still need to finish the arms themselves by putting in the coloured film into the spectacle plate and fitting the back blinders. I also need to bite the bullet and fit the two servos to operate it as well.. not looking forward to that bit ..!!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Robin Gristwood

[magmouse]

It may have been a slightly painful process, but the results are definitely worth it - this looks terrific. You really get a sense it is constructed from parts - building in metal is great for that.

 

I especially like your lamps - a barely visible glow, just as it should be. What LEDs are you using, and how are you controlling the brightness? Just by using a higher value current-limiting resistor?

 

Nick.

 

[Robin Gristwood]

Nick,

 

Thanks for you kind words. I agree that the end result was worth the frustration to get there.

 

Yes the lamps themselves are made from white metal castings from MSE, carefully drilled half way through from the front where the lens would be, then from the bottom to meet that hole.

 

The pre-wired  SMD LED is fed in from the bottom and I held it in place with some blue tack on the bottom. Then I carefully dripped in Deluxe Glue 'n Glaze, waiting for it to settle and start to go off before adding another drop. After repeating about 4 times it creates a sort of lens at the front of the lamp and partially secures the LED.

 

I had already filed a small slit at the side of the lamp to feed through the wires, and filled that with 5 minute epoxy to hold everything in place. As I said one wire was connected to the wire that was threaded up through the post, then inside the bracket into the bottom of the doll and out again by the lamp base.  The lamp was glued onto the base, I chicken out soldering that, but it does not need to be a soldered joint, as the common wire was soldered to the doll.

 

The SMD LED's i used came from a batch I bought in my USA HO days for making flashing ditch lights on locos. I found that the supplier is still going strong on eBay, but it will be in German.

 

 

I think the resistor was a 1k ohms 1/4 A  and both LEDS were linked together.

 

Hope that helps?

 

[magmouse]

Thanks, Robin, that is very helpful.

 

I have made illuminated tail lamps in 16mm scale using whitemetal castings and fitting a standard size LED from the back. I drizzled epoxy resin in from the front to hold everything in place and form a lens. The fact the epoxy isn't completely transparent means the 'lens' looks dark when not lit, just like the prototype - a similar idea to your use of Glue 'n Glaze.

 

I am now more focused on 7mm scale, and while I am mainly working on rolling stock, a layout is the long term plan and signalling will be required, so its great to know about your methods. I will get to lamps earlier in any case as I am planning a brake van with working lamps.

 

Nick

[Robin Gristwood]

I have fitted my Tower 0-4-0  ST Pug  with a sound decoder and stay alive capacitor. I have also added a smoke deflector typical of those used in Liverpool docks, particularly I believe to try to protect the Liverpool Overhead Railway structures that the locomotives ran underneath from the corrosive effects of the smoke. By the time my layout is set the LOR had been dismantled but the smoke deflectors still remained on many locomotives. Some coal was also added to the cab bunkers.

 

This video clip shows the Pug bringing in empty coal wagons, ready to be exchanged with loaded wagons.

 

Apologies for the shaky video as I filmed this on my phone.

 

 

[37114]

Really enjoyed reading this thread earlier Robin, some excellent modelling here.

[Simond]

Robin,

 

am I right in thinking that you used “warm white”?
 

the eBay site appears a little expensive.  If you can solder the wires to the led, there are some here at 10 to 30p each.  Beware the MOQ, you probably don’t want three thousand on a reel…

 

sorry, forgot to post the link!

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/displays-optoelectronics/leds-light-emitting-diodes/leds/?applied-dimensions=4294378837,4294511129

this might also help

 

https://www.rapidonline.com/0603-1608-metric

 

cheers

Simon

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Simond

[Robin Gristwood]

I decided to have a go at an etched brass kit that I’ve had for ages now. In fact it was one of the first ones I bought at a Guildex.

 

Although this D&S GER General Utility Van would almost certainly not have lasted past the ‘50’s I liked the look of it. So when completed it will need to be painted in a very worn looking LNER brown I think, rather than BR Crimson maybe?

 

The sides and ends have been cleaned up and folded and holes drilled for the end steps and handrails.

The doors and framing will need to be laminated before fixing to the sides. I will use my RSU for this as I’ve found it has been a boon for this type of work before.

 

 

[Stephenwolsten]

Great modelling and a Liverpool theme - perfect!

[kitpw]

I've only just come across Dominion Dock Goods.  All looking very good.  I particularly like the view along the canal - the mirror is a clever device which certainly works in that situation.  Well done on the signals. Whilst John Fitness is a master of the art, your first go at 7mm signals is excellent, the torsion rod type of drive isn't the easiest thing to model.  I'll keep looking in as the layout (7mm scale, urban location and some nice bridges) is right up my street!

 

[Robin Gristwood]

The side and ends for the GER GUV are now complete.

Its not until you go back to building a brass kit that you remember how much time is prepping the etchings.

 

It was at one of the Missenden workshops that Kevin Wilson explained the importance of removing the etch cusp from the edges of all parts. He explained that not only does it give a better edge contact for soldering, any edge showing looks better when painted.

 

I also learnt how important a good set of files are. Living in Birmingham I was able to just hop up to the Jewellery Quarter to get some decent files.

 

 

Although it took some time, they are complete now, and I soldered them together this morning.

 

 

The roof is vac-formed plastic so this will have to be trimmed to size.

 

Then it’s on to the underframe to build. As it’s a six wheeled van there is a moving centre axle mounting, which is a new one on me, but I hope the underframe is as well designed as the body was to put together.

[Robin Gristwood]

Finally the D&S GUV has been finished and etch primed. Now I just need to fit glazing and window bars and the curved handrails for the end with the steps onto the roof.

Then I can fix the roof on permanently.

 

 

Initially I was planning on painting it in LNER brown, but I think I might paint it in a faded BR crimson instead now?

 

The next projects to start now are an Easybuild Derby 2 car set (what became Class 108) and the station building that I commissioned from Phil at Intentio to laser cut for me.

 

I’ve started the DMU by preparing the sides and roof. All the holes have been drilled for the hinges, doorstops and handrails. The doors were scored more deeply and the edges trimmed with a razor blade to remove the burr.

The sides were then rubbed down with wet and dry.

As the sides are curved I couldn’t use a ruler to guide the scoring of the door lines, so I used a square of thin brass sheet that could be curved around the side to guide the knife blade.

 

 

I am still deciding whether to try to replicate the seams on the roof panels on the roof.

Rather than weld lines, these appear to be riveted panels that are either 2’ 6” or 2’ wide, with seams covering the joins.

Easybuild suggest using 20 thou plastic rod glued into pre-scored lines on the roof, but this doesn’t seem to replicate the appearance of the prototype roof.

So I’m not sure whether to leave the roof plain or try using some very thin tape to simulate those seams?

 

I have marked out one roof and made a curved brass jig to mark out and score the lines if I decide to go ahead with this?

Anybody have any other suggestions for how to model this?

 

 

I got a couple of the Intentio LNWR panels to test beforehand and I was so pleased with the look I asked Phil to make a set of panels for a full station.

 

The station is modelled on the LNWR wooden panel buildings, as I wanted something other than all the other brick buildings that already feature on the layout. 

 

 

I’m still waIting for some of the parts from Phil at Intentio before I can make a start on this though, but hopefully it will add to the planned LNWR heritage of the layout.

 

[pwr]

10 hours ago, Robin Gristwood said:

Finally the D&S GUV has been finished and etch primed. Now I just need to fit glazing and window bars and the curved handrails for the end with the steps onto the roof.

Then I can fix the roof on permanently.

 

 

Initially I was planning on painting it in LNER brown, but I think I might paint it in a faded BR crimson instead now?

 

The next projects to start now are an Easybuild Derby 2 car set (what became Class 108) and the station building that I commissioned from Phil at Intentio to laser cut for me.

 

I’ve started the DMU by preparing the sides and roof. All the holes have been drilled for the hinges, doorstops and handrails. The doors were scored more deeply and the edges trimmed with a razor blade to remove the burr.

The sides were then rubbed down with wet and dry.

As the sides are curved I couldn’t use a ruler to guide the scoring of the door lines, so I used a square of thin brass sheet that could be curved around the side to guide the knife blade.

 

 

I am still deciding whether to try to replicate the seams on the roof panels on the roof.

Rather than weld lines, these appear to be riveted panels that are either 2’ 6” or 2’ wide, with seams covering the joins.

Easybuild suggest using 20 thou plastic rod glued into pre-scored lines on the roof, but this doesn’t seem to replicate the appearance of the prototype roof.

So I’m not sure whether to leave the roof plain or try using some very thin tape to simulate those seams?

 

I have marked out one roof and made a curved brass jig to mark out and score the lines if I decide to go ahead with this?

Anybody have any other suggestions for how to model this?

 

 

I got a couple of the Intentio LNWR panels to test beforehand and I was so pleased with the look I asked Phil to make a set of panels for a full station.

 

The station is modelled on the LNWR wooden panel buildings, as I wanted something other than all the other brick buildings that already feature on the layout. 

 

 

I’m still waIting for some of the parts from Phil at Intentio before I can make a start on this though, but hopefully it will add to the planned LNWR heritage of the layout.

 

 

 

When I made my Westdale BG I used self adhesive address labels cut very thinly and just stuck on - see photo below.

 

 

Although they are stuck on, once the roof is painted and varnished it will remove any tendency for them to lift. You could probably cut them thinner than I did. The labels I used were those intended for a Dymo labling machine and came on rolls but any A4 label set would do.

 

I have masses of them so if you want to send me a PM with your address I would happily post some to you. You probably only need about 4 tables for two cars. 

 

Paul R

[Robin Gristwood]

Quote

When I made my Westdale BG I used self adhesive address labels cut very thinly and just stuck on - see photo below.

 

 

Although they are stuck on, once the roof is painted and varnished it will remove any tendency for them to lift. You could probably cut them thinner than I did. The labels I used were those intended for a Dymo labling machine and came on rolls but any A4 label set would do.

 

Paul that is a great suggestion, thanks. I hadn't thought of using labels or tape. It made me think of what I could use, and I remembered that I had some very thin 1/32 wide self adhesive black lining tape that I used for making strapping on HO US freight car loads.

 

 

I will give that a go I think and as you say once painted, with a bit of luck, it should stay in place 

 

[Robin Gristwood]

The two roofs for the DMU have been scored and the thin lining tape applied.

Although not anywhere close to the painting stage I think they will look a lot better than just plain roofs.

 

 

The door hinges and bump stops have been added to the sides now too, and the unwanted details has been removed from the non-cab ends

 

 

I finished these after an enjoyable weekend in York for my birthday.

My wife organised a Sunday lunch for us on the North York Moors Pullman service, luckily steam-hauled again by a beautiful 9F 92134.

 

  

 

I’m still waiting for the missing parts from Intentio for the station building, its maybe time to give Phil a call I think? 🤔

[Simond]

I know it has the right wheels & all, but are you sure that’s a 9F?  It looks far too clean.

 

Happy birthday

Simon

[Robin Gristwood]

I’ve now cleaned up the cab ends and drilled holes for 3mm bi-colour LEDS for the lights.

 

 

I wanted to model one of the DMU’s with the two character headcode boxes on the cab front rather than the four digit on the roof.

Three questions though if anyone can help:

1.    Were the letters and numbers used in these 2 character boxes the same size as the ones used in the roof mounted and loco headcodes? (The only decals I can find are from Fox     https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/loco-dmu-train-reporting-alpha-numerics-back-light-illumination-7mm-high )

 

2.    How were the two character boxes lit? Should there be a light behind each character?

 

3.    Was the small roof mounted destination box also lit?

 

I have found a few photos of 2 character box DMUs but cant seem to be able to judge if the decals from Fox are the right size?

Transition Years | By this time this photo was taken, the DM… | Flickr

 

As always any help gratefully received 🙂

 

Robin

[37114]

On 09/07/2023 at 11:33, Robin Gristwood said:

I’ve now cleaned up the cab ends and drilled holes for 3mm bi-colour LEDS for the lights.

 

 

I wanted to model one of the DMU’s with the two character headcode boxes on the cab front rather than the four digit on the roof.

Three questions though if anyone can help:

1.    Were the letters and numbers used in these 2 character boxes the same size as the ones used in the roof mounted and loco headcodes? (The only decals I can find are from Fox     https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/loco-dmu-train-reporting-alpha-numerics-back-light-illumination-7mm-high )

 

2.    How were the two character boxes lit? Should there be a light behind each character?

 

3.    Was the small roof mounted destination box also lit?

 

I have found a few photos of 2 character box DMUs but cant seem to be able to judge if the decals from Fox are the right size?

Transition Years | By this time this photo was taken, the DM… | Flickr

 

As always any help gratefully received 🙂

 

Robin

I can't help with no 1 but to 2 & 3; yes both were lit for night time viewing. Just be aware that a number of preserved DMU's that have had the 2 character headcode boxes added back are representations painted/mounted on top of the cab front for ease so won't be backlit if you use those as reference photos. 

 

Here is one that has been fully restored:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42802953@N03/49284086431/in/photolist-2i64PS8-zj2MHo-254bGs1-J1jzd5-JVpCXG-J2H6WZ-9tATcA-2in4enX-2meL3rZ-K5dNFn-BXct63-GfxKkR-2m9Ur8e-53gpaV-5Zha6C-2kRNigL-2ngbaRp-Y6nwEG-Zd9TjW-YF1NBr-pbNh9z-pvVRHf-pdDVnD-paFZva-2kRNrzh-2mbHmq9-26RU7xZ-PQo4ZX-dnzPFf-Z3L4QS-2jKNJjC-dEicHv-pb3Sgu-bbo42M-Qb7RLp-7TAmpa-2kRNiat-2ngcfYT-2mwPnBV-oTDdfV-RNrfEb-2kRP8W5-2ngcg9N-2dRNCtY-pbx6Xs-gYG2Dv-psNfCm-2kRTzhK-paY9WC-puowVU

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by 37114
photo link added

[Robin Gristwood]

Merry Christmas everyone and a happy and healthy New Year to one and all.!! 🎅

 

More updates to follow soon... 🙂