Robin Gristwood Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum. I’ve been modelling American HO for the last fifteen years or so http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=6088, but feel drawn towards something more familiar in prototype yet a different challenge as far as modelling, so modelling British 7mm seems to fit the bill. I won’t be jumping in head first just yet. I am not dismantling my HO layout yet, I’m planning for the future, but for now I’m building an O gauge micro layout. I’m sure I will need to ask loads of newbie type questions. I’ve been impressed by so many of the micro layouts on this forum, I love to model details and O gauge seems like the perfect scale for that. A large layout in 4mm or HO takes a lot of time to get anywhere near finished so I’m hoping this micro layout will whet my appetite to carry on in 7mm for the long term. For my micro layout I have blatantly stolen the plan developed by Marc Smith http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9892-minimum-space-o-gauge-layout/ I particularly liked the idea of the fully scenicked sector plate. As such a high proportion is fiddle yard it seems preferable visually to blend it somehow with the layout itself. I may flip it so that the entry track comes in from the right though. I looked at the minimum Inglenook specifications and it was 3-2-2 capacities for the 3 roads and a headshunt of loco and 2 wagons. I originally planned that, but thought I might as well add another 6” and increase capacity and shunting options and overall look too. I haven't decided on what structures to include yet, or the setting. I was thinking of some sort of small permanent way sidings with a small store and all the bits and pieces associated with it. I'm also torn between blue TOPS which is what I remember seeing whilst travelling by train whilst I was a student, and Green diesel era. But with such a small layout to test things I suppose there is no reason why I can't run both. Robin Edited June 8, 2018 by Robin Gristwood 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi Robin, Welcome to the forum and to 7mm. I've recently moved up to 7mm from 4mm, and I'm enjoying the ride. 7mm is ideal for these small shunting layouts and you'll be able to get plenty of detail in, I'm sure. Jinty 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi Robin, Welcome to the fold, there are several of small layouts on RMWeb using green/early blue diesels, so lots of inspiration, and as you note you can mix and match as there's not likely to be more than one loco 'in steam'- or should that be heavy fuel. Look forward to seeing this develop, any thoughts yet on track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi Robin, Welcome to the fold, there are several of small layouts on RMWeb using green/early blue diesels, so lots of inspiration, and as you note you can mix and match as there's not likely to be more than one loco 'in steam'- or should that be heavy fuel. Look forward to seeing this develop, any thoughts yet on track? I have the track and the one Peco point I need already for this, but for future projects I will try a C&L point kit as I prefer the more prototypical look of the track. On my HO layout I used Fast-tracks points rather than Peco and they looked much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Welcome to the 7mm fold I am sure you will enjoy modelling in the larger scale. I have a love of smaller layouts which have an appeal all of their own. This is in contrast to my layout Ramchester which is situated in a large shed but is coming along fine after about 5 years work from Howard and me (see RMweb/7mm+modelling/The Ramchester Chronicles). I have learnt a great deal from modelling in the larger scale and would not entertain the idea of returning to 4mm. Stick with it Robin - 7mm will get to you in the end and you will not regret it. Rod Edited August 17, 2015 by railwayrod 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi Robin, Welcome to 7mm. I don't think You will regret moving up to 7mm. If you want to get some inspiration You might want to go along to the Gauge 0 Guild's GuildEx15 in Telford on the first weekend in September. Its the largest 7mm show in the world so there is something for everyone. I think there is a small industrial layout there this year. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thank you all for you welcome and your words of encouragement. Progress is being made, I've finished the main board now. Its amazing with such a small layout how quickly something tangible can be knocked up. Not throwing away offcuts of timber and plywood helps too of course..!! Next I've got to make the sector plate and the base and think of a simple and easy way of fixing it to the main board I'll use Marc Smith's idea again of modelling the sector plate as an embankment http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9892-minimum-space-o-gauge-layout/?p=106856 Onwards and upwards... hopefully 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted August 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2015 Good luck Robin The track layout on the micro I'm building is quite similar but I have included a second track on the sector plate and this works quite well, giving extra storage and operating capacity, though it has limited clearance. You can see it here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96750-easy-low-cost-micro-layout-baseboard-ideas/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1978558 Small diesels ideal for this size of line, I have a Tower 02 which is very chunky and an Ixion Fowler, so far. Enjoy! Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Welcome to the senior scale Robin. I prefer 0 gauge because inter alia the 4mm scale scene is so well served that it is all starting to look alike. In 7mm scale just a single wagon can be a very satisfying project, especially when the time comes to weather the vehicle. My layout is called Cwm Bach. It is 15' x 2' and is a South Wales Valleys branch terminus with a small colliery branch allowing main-line and industrial operations. You can read the story on RMWeb at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/ If you can get to Guildex at Telford on Saturday 5th September, come over the Minerva Models stand for a chat with Chris Basten and me. Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 It has never been a better time to get into 7mm. RTR locos such as the Hudswell Clarke, Fowler Diesel and the up coming Terrier and Peckett E class give a great starting point to get things running. Wagon kits are not expensive nor are they hard to put together and there is plenty of scope to do custom versions of just about anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hello Robin, Welcome to the forum. And to the 'senior' scale! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbys65 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Welcome to O gauge from a very slow newbie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Oh no.. I knew it was too good to last Baseboard finished. Track plan printed out 1:1 and laid out. My imagination starting to fill in the gaps, visualising what could go where. A good weekends work...or so I thought ..and then when I was lying in bed I had one of those light bulb moments. I had noticed that the baseboard was quite heavy when I was moving it around. The brainwave I had was to use a sheet of extruded foam. I'd used this before as a cover for the window in my layout room painted sky blue. At less than £20.00 for a sheet of 75mm I picked one up today during my lunch break. I remembered to take a saw as they are 2.5m long and my car boot isn't, even with the back seats down. So now I have a choice to make.. do I use the wooden baseboard and follow "the known" path or go with the foam and take a leap into the unknown...? Decisions, decisions...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I am a great fan of foam, at 75mm it would need little if any further bracing, probably just an edging of ply, however I would point out a couple of things that you need to think about. Point motor would need some form of ply set into the foam to give something to fix to. Wiring is likely to need to be surface fixed, as you wouldn't want trailing wires underneath - there's no void to carry wiring. It is more susceptible to damage if you catch the underside on anything. Be careful of things like solvents in glues and paints, they will eat it. If you're not going to be taking it to exhibitions I would definitely give it a whirl, if it's going out of the house it would benefit from some further protection. But then you're going to have to do something with the other baseboard! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Oi!! You can't just chuck out statements like "I bought some foam at lunchtime" & leave it at that!!! Extruded foam has gone rarer than gold dust in the UK it seems - disappeared from B&Q & suchlike for sure!! - where did you get your sheet from? Other than that welcome to the Big Stuff & don't forget you can do American O as well 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 75mm foam generally doesn't need much, if any bracing. 3mm ply edging is a good idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Oi!! You can't just chuck out statements like "I bought some foam at lunchtime" & leave it at that!!! Extruded foam has gone rarer than gold dust in the UK it seems - disappeared from B&Q & suchlike for sure!! - where did you get your sheet from? Other than that welcome to the Big Stuff & don't forget you can do American O as well I got the blue foam sheet from the trade counter of Sheffield Insulation Group. Its called DOW Floormate 300A. I think the sheet I bought was a shade just under £19.00 incl. VAT. I got the 75mm thickness, but available in 50mm as well. As far as I know they have branches across the country. I bought mine at the Oldbury branch. It is available in denser foam too I think. The sheet I got is designed for ceiling/floor insulation loading. There are heavier grades for greater loading too. It is surprising light. It certainly didn't warrant the order picker bringing my one sheet to my car on the forks of his forklift. It was lucky it want windy I think it would have taken off otherwise..! Hope that helps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Certainly does, Robin, thanks. That'll be Oldbury, Sandwell I take it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Foam is the first choice.... it enables you to carve away below track level - a great bonus, as usually there is something lower than the track - so it adds to the realism. Regarding point motors, I just glue in a square of 4mm ply about 80mm x 80mm wherever is appropriate for the motor, and once dry, mount the motor to that (having carved a hole in the foam for it). I still put a timber frame underneath which creates a void, and to carry the legs - and it's still surprisingly light. For exhibition use, I scrim the underside for fire-proofing reasons, rather than have exposed foam, most types of which burn very well.... Edited August 19, 2015 by Giles 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 I decided to go with the foam option, after all the idea behind this is doing something different. I have framed the foam with ply, apart from the front which is 6mm MDF. This is only temporarily fitted with screws so that I remove it, if and when I carve away any of the foam at the front, as that is one of the advantages of using this foam. I have also built the sector plate. Ballast and scenery will be added to the foam sector plate track and embankment. This will give me a chance to practice some 7mm scenery, scaling up from HO I imagine some things will be the same, although some things will need different treatment I’m sure. The next step is to fix the track to the foam. I will be using No More Nails as I did on my HO track, unless someone has a better idea? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Just check the formula. Some of those glues actually eat the foam after a while. Selly's "Liquid Nails" was quite good, but they changed the formula and it now eats blue foam. One that I found works nicely is "Fuller's Maxbond" - we get it from Bunnings Warehouse here in Australia, not sure if it is available in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's the solvent in the adhesive that 'eats' the foam. If you use interior grade it doesn't have solvent, so it doesn't affect the foam (it also doesn't smell as bad!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium eldavo Posted August 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2015 Screwfix solvent free "no nonsense" gap filler adhesive stuff is cheap and does the job. There are several other solvent free varieties available as well. Our club foam baseboards haven't fallen apart yet... There are also some really sticky solvent free adhesives available but which are pretty pricey. Useful for fitting small point motor mountings etc. I think we used one from deluxe. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Gristwood Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thank you all for the words of warning. I shall try the glue on a spare bit of foam to see if it does the trick or melts it disasterously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR CHRIS Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Great start there Robin hours of fun in the build and when done shunting trucks about. Re the glues as your not trying to get any tight corner's you could just try Aquadere (PVA) I have used this on the foam we get here in Australia with good results 12months after putting some track down nothing has moved or no foam degradation issues. I am currently laying track on my new project and have used this quick set version within minutes the track is stuck and using minimal amounts. Once you ballast everything will be set in stone don't forget so the first stick is not that critical any way. Good luck with your little project Edited September 2, 2015 by SMR CHRIS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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