what can be used as pre grouping wagon loads

[John_Miles]

Getting wagons returned could be a major problem for the owners. I have an extensive set of correspondence sent to the Llynclys area on the Cambrian ( also on "The Potts") from owners of anthracite wagons from the Swansea Valley. They all refer to wagons which were sent out on a specific date and seem to have gone astray. The Midland and the GWR had so many enquiries of this nature that they instructed their station staff not to reply. Instead the wagon owner was asked to contact the person / company to whom the wagon was sent. Wagons could also be stolen - a quick paint job and fake plates and nobody would be the wiser.

[Penlan]

.... and with a Swansea allocated Brake Van...

There were something like a dozen wagons with this load in the train.
I'm assuming these are military horse drawn wagons - WW1.

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Penlan

[Fat Controller]

Getting wagons returned could be a major problem for the owners. I have an extensive set of correspondence sent to the Llynclys area on the Cambrian ( also on "The Potts") from owners of anthracite wagons from the Swansea Valley. They all refer to wagons which were sent out on a specific date and seem to have gone astray. The Midland and the GWR had so many enquiries of this nature that they instructed their station staff not to reply. Instead the wagon owner was asked to contact the person / company to whom the wagon was sent. Wagons could also be stolen - a quick paint job and fake plates and nobody would be the wiser.

The problem persisted in the Lower Swansea Valley into the 1970s; one of my summer jobs at BSC Landore was to take a list of wagons supposedly on site (sent by teleprinter from BR), and try and find them. There'd be about a hundred on each daily list, and there'd almost always be some missing. Some would have been removed by the BR shunter, and taken to one of the two scrapyards on the Morriston side of the plant for re-loading, but not recorded; some would have fallen apart when being unloaded by electro-magnet. These latter would go into the scrap pot, with the plate retained as evidence of their demise. 

Further towards Swansea Docks, around Upper Bank and St Thomas, were some sidings used for storing mineral wagons during the summer; whilst the wagons were notionally still there at the end of summer, it was often difficult to move them. as the brass journals would have been stolen.

[Fat Controller]

.... and with a Swansea allocated Brake Van...

There were something like a dozen wagons with this load in the train.

I'm assuming these are military horse drawn wagons - WW1.

 

Brake Van - Swansea 001.jpg

Figure 304 in 'Freight Wagons and their loads of the GWR and BR (WR)' by J H Russell shows seemingly identical carts loaded on a mixture of Bogie Bolsters and four-wheel flats; the caption describes them as 'Limbers', which I've always understood to mean ammunition-carrying vehicles.

This book has quite a lot of photos of assorted wagon loads, and things like the correct method of securing them; don't let the title deter you from looking at it.

[petethemole]

Those are wagons, general service, similar to this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_KtkGsMVI5U/UwWbPm7wc2I/AAAAAAAAAuo/iRDvWKf9yZ0/s1600/GSX.jpg

 

Limbers were much shorter, with two wheels. They carried ready-use ammunition and supported the trail of the gun in transport. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88891&d=1395722612&thumb=1

[Poggy1165]

Railway companies would quite regularly circulate long lists of lost wagons. Where these wagons ended up in some cases remains a mystery, as they literally vanished never to be seen again. Possibly they are in another dimension, where they are still being shunted about.

 

As an aside, can anyone suggest a realistic way of representing coke, as a load? My layout certainly needs some coke wagons but I haven't the least idea how to replicate the look of the stuff. (Many younger people have probably never set eyes on the stuff. Sufficient to say it didn't look anything like coal.) It was also relatively light, which explains why the extra raves had to be added to a standard wagon to convey it. This adds to the difficulty, as you can't just have a simple layer, it needs to be five sided. 

[ian@stenochs]

 

As an aside, can anyone suggest a realistic way of representing coke, as a load? My layout certainly needs some coke wagons but I haven't the least idea how to replicate the look of the stuff. (Many younger people have probably never set eyes on the stuff. Sufficient to say it didn't look anything like coal.) It was also relatively light, which explains why the extra raves had to be added to a standard wagon to convey it. This adds to the difficulty, as you can't just have a simple layer, it needs to be five sided.

 

I have used minced up polyurethane foam. I minced up the offcuts of trackbase left over from tracklaying in a little food processor. The stuff I have is dark grey in colour and the minced particles are not all of the same size but have that kind of honeycomb look of coke. It is quite light too so does not overload the springs!

 

Ian.

 

Ps mine is 7mmscale coke.

[Fat Controller]

Those are wagons, general service, similar to this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_KtkGsMVI5U/UwWbPm7wc2I/AAAAAAAAAuo/iRDvWKf9yZ0/s1600/GSX.jpg

 

Limbers were much shorter, with two wheels. They carried ready-use ammunition and supported the trail of the gun in transport. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=88891&d=1395722612&thumb=1

Having built the Airfix Quad, Limber and 25 pounder as a kid, that was what I thought; the same book has a photo of large field guns being prepared for their journey with two-wheel limbers under one end.

[Spitfire2865]

Brake Van - Swansea 001.jpg

Wow, a photo of a D17A I have never seen before. Though no doubt itll show up in LNWR wagons 3 whenever that gets published.

[richard i]

Railway companies would quite regularly circulate long lists of lost wagons. Where these wagons ended up in some cases remains a mystery, as they literally vanished never to be seen again. Possibly they are in another dimension, where they are still being shunted about.

 

As an aside, can anyone suggest a realistic way of representing coke, as a load? My layout certainly needs some coke wagons but I haven't the least idea how to replicate the look of the stuff. (Many younger people have probably never set eyes on the stuff. Sufficient to say it didn't look anything like coal.) It was also relatively light, which explains why the extra raves had to be added to a standard wagon to convey it. This adds to the difficulty, as you can't just have a simple layer, it needs to be five sided.

 

For my age coke is either in a bottle or a white powder. Never seen a color image of coke in a coke wagon, but I have a couple of empty coke wagons labeled up on my layout. I will be interested to see if anyone has an image of coke in colour.

[richard i]

In the very early days horse drawn carriages were carried on flat trucks

And an original horse box!

[Simond]

For my age coke is either in a bottle or a white powder. Never seen a color image of coke in a coke wagon, but I have a couple of empty coke wagons labeled up on my layout. I will be interested to see if anyone has an image of coke in colour.

I guess the best / easiest way to see coke is at a blacksmith's forge, though determined googling will get past images of the red cans.

 

It's black, porous and not glossy, but at scale, I'm not sure I could tell the difference.

 

Best

Simon

[Northroader]

Coke out of the gasworks was quite a light grey, not black. There was also a faint silvery suggestion, looking at it closely. It had an open texture, rather like aero chocolate, not smooth faced lumps, like coal.

[Simond]

Never seen it looking grey, but I've no recollection of having seen it in bulk as from the gasworks. Certainly agree about the texture, Aero is a good description!

 

Trouble is how to replicate grey-black, silvery, not glossy, sponge, at 1/43 or 1/72?

 

Best

Simon

[Caley Jim]

Trouble is how to replicate grey-black, silvery, not glossy, sponge, at 1/43 or 1/72?

 

Best way would be to do the same as for coal. Get hold of some, crush it and then sieve it to the size you want. Hardest part will be getting hold of some coke (by which I mean the carbonised coal type!).

 

Jim

[Penlan]

 

Hardest part will be getting hold of some coke....

I'm told that's easy.. and then you slip into a grey-black, silvery, .... glossy ... I never did hear where that went to.,

...... by which I mean the carbonised coal type!

Oh... Not so easy,  though surprisingly, I do have 50 kilo's bag in the shed  - long story.

[Caley Jim]

.Oh... Not so easy, though surprisingly, I do have 50 kilo's bag in the shed - long story.[/background][/size]

Now there's a nice little earner for you! Crush it, sort it into different grades,package it into bags and sell it for an extortionate amount per bag to the gullible folk on here. But be careful how you describe it on flea bay or you might get a visit from the local polis!

 

Jim

[richard i]

I have to agree on the coke being difficult to tell apart from coal. Have googled "coke coal" and third picture is a comparison of the two. Perhaps use matt varnish to take the shine off coal. Coke seems to have a flatter greyer look to it.

[Northroader]

Trouble is if you google coke they want to show you a certain soft drink, looking at coke coal /images, you can get coke pictures mixed in with coal pictures, which you can pick out which is which. There's also coking coal, looking the same as coal. The Stainmoor line was well known for hoppers loaded with the stuff going from Durham coal mines to steelworks at Workington.

[John_Miles]

Coke out of the gasworks was quite a light grey, not black. There was also a faint silvery suggestion, looking at it closely. It had an open texture, rather like aero chocolate, not smooth faced lumps, like coal.

 

I once had a summer job as a labourer on a coking plant (Avenue just south of Chesterfield). I saw enough of the stuff to last a lifetime and I agree with the above description. There is another sort of coke which is used for steel making and is much more robust as it has to survive having things tipped on top of it in a furnace.

[Fat Controller]

Coke out of the gasworks was quite a light grey, not black. There was also a faint silvery suggestion, looking at it closely. It had an open texture, rather like aero chocolate, not smooth faced lumps, like coal.

Rather than Aero, I'd go for 'cinder toffee', like the inner part of a 'Crunchie'; as for colour, an almost-metallic silvery-grey. 

[asmay2002]

Never seen a color image of coke in a coke wagon, but I have a couple of empty coke wagons labeled up on my layout.

You can see one or two here.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke

 

Go to the 4th page for some loaded wagons.

[Penlan]

Go to the 4th page for some loaded wagons.

I see no Coke....

 

Go to Google Images and search on 'Coke as Fuel' https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=933&bih=597&q=coke+as+fuel&oq=coke+as+fuel&gs_l=img.3..0.8975.17008.0.17460.13.13.0.0.0.0.157.1389.2j10.12.0....0...1.1.64.img..1.12.1388.0..35i39k1j0i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.FU1FArU6rDE

..... and apart from the fact it is shown as small 'ish nuggets,

colouring is whatever you want it to be,

possibly more than 50 Shades of Grey.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Penlan

[asmay2002]

I see no Coke....

Look at the pictures of B448974, B448991, B449196 on the 4th page of photos. The stuff in the wagons is coke. 

[Andy Hayter]

For whatever reason, with me these pictures are turning up on pages 5 and 6.  Probably something to do with page formatting, but the key point is that they are towards the end of the series of pictures.