84f Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Firstly, apologies if my query has been covered, I have searched but may have missed it. Secondly, I hope this thread can be closed quickly without any irrelevant discussion on the merits of OO SF. My question. I intend to use B6 in my fiddle yard, with a minimum B7 in the scenic. I am also intending to run 8 coupled locos (e.g Hornby 72xx), which I do not possess as yet. (so cannot test) Templot is telling me that OO SF B6 Turnouts have a minimum radius of 35 inch. With my EM background and the 16.2mm guage through the turnout this seems tight so I am wondering if these are suitable for 8 coupled locos. I am prepared to redesign my fiddle yard to use B7 and sacrifice some siding length. I would be interested to hear others experiences, recommendations. Many thanks in advance, Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hi Robin Try changing the switch setting - go to the Real menu and click on switch. If you use a shorter switch the minimum radius in the template is increased. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Robin Whilst in hand built track B6's may be seen as medium radius, as far as RTR goes its large, anyway if you build the turnouts if needed you could adjust them if needed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Thanks, both. I will be using copper clad in the fiddle yard, so I guess will be relatively easy to adjust if necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Research on the net indicates that Hornby claim their 42xx will go round their second radius curves which comes out at 17.25 inch radius. if you are building your own points and you are tight for space the 42xx should go round an A5 turnout. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2015 Templot is telling me that 00-SF B6 Turnouts have a minimum radius of 35 inch. With my EM background and the 16.2mm gauge through the turnout this seems tight Hi Robin, Click the real > switch settings... menu item. Select 12ft straight heel switch in the list (2nd from the top). The smallest radius will increase to 37.8" and the turnout will be slightly shorter. And/or then click the real > V-crossing options > generic V-crossing menu item. The smallest radius will increase to 43.8" and turnout will be slightly longer again. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Another solution is to build one and test it. Theory is fine but it's only when a hammer hits the steel that you find out what really happens. But I also observe that you are going to a lot of trouble to use OO-SF hand-built points in the storage yard. If I understand things correctly you can use off the shelf points (subject to your choice of couplings) just as well with this discipline saving some time and money. I hope I'm right as I was planning this combination for my railway. (bearing in mind that PECO radii are 'nominal' and not the actual radii that occur in the point) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2015 But I also observe that you are going to a lot of trouble to use 00-SF hand-built points in the storage yard. If I understand things correctly you can use off the shelf points (subject to your choice of couplings) just as well with this discipline saving some time and money Hi Richard, Yes if you are using RTR wheels. Marginally yes if you are using Romford/Markits wheels. If you are using narrower kit wheels (e.g. Alan Gibson, Ultrascale) they will be bumpy over the crossings and may even derail. Which is not the faultless running that you need in hidden storage areas. Also I'm not sure that off-the-shelf turnouts will save money over plain copper-clad construction, even after the recent price increases on materials. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Another solution is to build one and test it. Theory is fine but it's only when a hammer hits the steel that you find out what really happens. But I also observe that you are going to a lot of trouble to use OO-SF hand-built points in the storage yard. If I understand things correctly you can use off the shelf points (subject to your choice of couplings) just as well with this discipline saving some time and money. I hope I'm right as I was planning this combination for my railway. (bearing in mind that PECO radii are 'nominal' and not the actual radii that occur in the point) RTR turnouts will save time, but I doubt if they will save money. Also will they be the correct size/shape ? Copperclad sleepers/timbers have increased in price recently, but still offer good value.In the past for storage yards it was common to only use 1 in every 3 sleepers, this ratio will keep the shape and gauge as required, though in areas like the common crossing extra timbers may be needed. But if it was more expensive and achieved better results, would it not be worth it As for cost, rail under £2, copperclad £5, but less if timbers are omitted. Solder and flux a few pence As many wagon kits use scale wheels and are commonly bought and built, finer standards are desirable for good running. I can understand that for some track building is not on the agenda, but is that a good reason to query others choice ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. I am building a test turnout, but I don't have an eight coupled loco to run through it as yet. Several reasons for going for hand-built copper clad in the fiddle yard. 1, I have enjoyed my limited track building and want to hone my skills. 2 My layout project is long term, the fiddle yard design is quite complex. It is double ended with 20 Turnouts, run round loops, arrival and departure tracks. It is influenced by Frank Dyer's Borchester Market. The track plan would not be so effective with rtl track. 3. Operation will be hands off and coupling will be automatic (Dinghams). So operation should be smooth and reliable and I am using finer scale wheels on my kit built wagons.Most of my locos are available rtr, but I anticipate some will need kit built chassis thanks Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 That all makes perfect sense to me Robin, And in view of the helpful posts on this thread I am now reviewing my own ideas/plans (again!) Thanks Martin too (again!). :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Robin, Click the real > switch settings... menu item. Select 12ft straight heel switch in the list (2nd from the top). The smallest radius will increase to 37.8" and the turnout will be slightly shorter. And/or then click the real > V-crossing options > generic V-crossing menu item. The smallest radius will increase to 43.8" and turnout will be slightly longer again. regards, Martin. Hi Martin. I find all yor responses really helpful and point me in the right direction, But I must admit that I have got really confused about switch settiings and v crossing options. - In the fiddle yard I just want it to work, but when I come out into the open I also want it to be prototypical! Is there any definitive work you can point me at that will explain this sort of thing? I model BR WR circa 1950 predominatly goods based / secondary lines in the Black Country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2015 I must admit that I have got really confused about switch settiings and v crossing options. - In the fiddle yard I just want it to work, but when I come out into the open I also want it to be prototypical! Is there any definitive work you can point me at that will explain this sort of thing? I model BR WR circa 1950 predominatly goods based / secondary lines in the Black Country. Hi Robin, Get yourself a copy of this book: Available from: http://gwsg.org.uk/GWSG_Publications.html All the GWR switches are available pre-set in Templot. For the GWR crossings you will need to create some custom templates. For more about Templot settings, see http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_realtrack.htm regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Thanks!! I will send off for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have concluded that the only sure way to determine my safe B6 turnout configuration for 16.2mm is to test build. So I have now ordered a Hornby 28xx, good excuse anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 I have concluded that the only sure way to determine my safe B6 turnout configuration for 16.2mm is to test build. So I have now ordered a Hornby 28xx, good excuse anyway! ???????? Robin In case anybody is interested - I received the 28xx yesterday (really beautiful model and exceptional service from Rails of Sheffield, but truly awful weathering by Hornby - will be powering up the airbrush shortly!) I re-gauged a short length of 34 inch radius 'S' curve test track from 18.2 to 16.2mm and the 2-8-0 runs perfectly . But it has highlighted that 34" is almost buffer lock territory with the 28xx pushing a 10' wheelbase van, so I am really glad I have done the test and will be upping my min radius through turnouts to around 42" . 34" is a constraint for a return loop on my planned layout so I have also proved that will work. hey ho, Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Robin Martin may be able to confirm this but it is normal with 00-sf to use a 3 point gauge on curved track which will automatically gauge widen the track. Seems there is enough flex in the wheel/base to accommodate the loco, no idea if this would affect the buffer lock problems though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84f Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Hello John, my thinking is that there is no need to gauge widen at the radii that I will be using (+34 inches . The 3 point gauges are expensive and I don't want to buy them if I don't need to. I have the em ones and I don't think I needed them. Regards Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2015 3-point gauges widen the gauge at any radius, but above about 1200mm / 48" radius the effect is not enough to be worth doing.* The 00-SF 3-point gauges add progressively more widening on smaller radii, adding 0.3mm out to to 16.5mm gauge at 450mm / 18" radius. i.e. 00-SF tracks return to the 16.5mm 00 gauge at train-set radii. They are worth using if you have tracks below about 900mm / 36" radius, at which radius they add only 0.12mm, out to 16.32mm gauge. Above about 900mm / 36" radius you can manage without them. At 1200mm / 48" radius they add less than 0.1mm to the gauge. At 1500mm / 60" radius they add less than 0.08mm to the gauge. *except in P4. edit: p.s. if you are using 16.5mm flexi-track for your plain track, you need the 3-point gauges only if your pointwork will be below the above radii. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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