Osborne takes knife to Network Rail budget

[jjb1970]

Except you aren't exactly comparing like with like, expecially with the branch/local trains vs. Chinese high-speed. We do have Pendolinos though, and I'm sure the Chinese do have a few grotty regional trains, although that would spoil the amusement value.

Indeed, why not show the new Eurostar Velaro trains, Hitachi IEP, Javelin, Pendolino etc. For the most part the UK rail fleet is modern and of a high standard and trains like Pacers are the exception rather than the rule. The D train is potentially a relatively low cost way of getting trains in a time of austerity and regardless of political hue there is no way of avoiding austerity given our budget deficit and national debt.

[kenw]

Diverting round a blockage may still occur on the ECML but in most of the country it's now 'stop the shop and put the passengers onto buses' rather than set up diversions, even when the affected trains are diesel. Lack of route knowledge and/or non-availability of staff are just two of the reasons.

Yes, the route knowledge issue for diversions was very much easier under British Rail. With everyone under a single organisation, it was relatively easy to use any crews with the necessary route knowledge for diversions, even if they didn't also have the necessary traction knowledge then as route conductors. The method of privatisation means that now, the crews with the diversionary route knowledge will now be working for an entirely separate company who have their own trains to look after, so aren't available for other companies diversions.

 

EC, some time ago (ironically, IIRC, when under National Express), made a policy change to avoid 'bustitution' where possible, on the basis of a) passengers prefer to remain on a train, however much longer it takes, and b ) in cases of unplanned blockages it's impossible to find sufficient busses for several train loads of passengers with no notice, and have crews trained for diversionary routes where possible with reviews as required; eg Newcastle crews cover Newcastle - Carlisle; Durham Coast via Sunderland and Stockton to Northallerton; Ferryhill - Stockton; Eaglescliffe - Darlington; and Benton - Morpeth via Blyth and Tyne. Leeds / Doncaster the various routes between York and Doncaster, etc, and all crews do the Hertford Loop.

 

Friday was exacerbated by the wires being down over Werrington Jn, also blocking the diversionary route via Lincoln as well as the ECML, leaving only the Stamford lines open. The Up Stamford can only be accessed from the ECML by single line working with Pilotman from Tallington, and as it can't normally be accessed from the ECML it isn't wired.

[jamie92208]

Cross Country have a lot of diversionary route knowledge and do a lot to keep it.  A friends daughter is a Train Manager for them and she mainly works Newcastle to Birmingham being based at Leeds.  She knows all the routes between Sheffield and Derby via Toton and the normal routes as well as the various diversion routes around Sheffield, Sheffield to Doncaster via Kilnhurst and the S & K route to York.   Some of these she has to do route refreshers on in hired in locos, and others are regularly diagrammed with one train per week over that route that the crews rotate around.  This knowledge was very useful when the landslip north of Chesterfield caused problems last year.  The current franchise holders are not known for throwing money around but obviously feel that the expense of route learning is worth it so it can be done.   I just wish the various East Coast franchisees had the same attitude as buses always seem to be used between Doncaster and York when the route via Shaftholme and Knottingley is always available.

 

Jamie

[black and decker boy]

To add some clarity on the claimed widespread road widening schemes, most of the motorway schemes include no widening and are merely converting the existing hard shoulder to a running lane and adding variable speed matrix signs and camera enforcement.

 

This is a very short term fix, possibly worse than D78s are to rail. On parts of the M25 where this was done a few years ago, the road is already back to capacity at peak times. To now widen those sections will cost more and cause more disruption & congestion as you have to take out at least 1 if not 2 lanes (the lane widths on the 'all lane running' sections are narrower than the traditional lanes so that they can squeeze everything into the current total road width.

 

The unstated aim is that within the 10 year notional time it takes for these new running lanes to reach capacity, new technology such as driverless / autopilot cars will be on the market as these will give greater capacity through the existing lanes (provided of course that all cars are so fitted and that we, the drivers buy the kit).

 

If we are all still driving our selves (especially white vans and BMWs) then expect chaos.

[unclebobkt]

      I'll be a maverick here, and suggest that Uncle Bob is wrong. My Concise Oxford has: "address, v. [...] 4. Direct one's attention to"

 

So you can "address a problem".

 

       DavidH. - Be a maverick by all means - nothing like dissenting from received opinions, is there?

     

       But 'Directing one's attention to.'  is pure Sir Humphrey and/or Civil Service speak,  it does not handle things,does it?

  Yes - I know how to 'Address' cats, thanks to Mr. TS. Eliot's book 'Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats.',  but how does one 'Address.' a problem?  Remove one's hat;  shake hands, click one's heels and bow, kiss the proferred hand, place it reverently in the 'LBW.'* basket or what?

  Maybe we need someone like  Dean Swift, (1667-1745.) or Alexander Pope, (1688-1744.),  to advise us?

 

        * - 'Let the B*gg*r Wait.'.

[Glorious NSE]

The bulk of the GE outer-suburban fleet is the 321s, dating from 1988-90. The Norwich services are loco hauled Mk3s  of a similar vintage, and Class 90s - same again. All the inner suburban services are in the hands of 315s , from the early 80s.

 

There is talk of new EMUs to replace the Norwich trains, and Crossrail will replace 315s on the Shenfield side , but not the Cambridge side. I'm not aware of any replacement for the 321s. The 315s are now as old as the 306s of sainted memory when they were withdrawn.

 

The GE is the second biggest commuter operation in the South East, after the South Westerrn

Inner suburban 315s/317s on the Cambridge side are now under LOROL control and a replacement for them is underway. (If anyone looked at the average fleet age up-thread that'll plummet LOROL down the table for a couple of years as they've taken on a lot of trains built circa 1978-80!)

 

I think with that and Crossrail it will see all the 315s out of use. Not sure whether all the remaining 317s that the Cambridge side uses moved to LOROL or whether any remain with Anglia? I suspect they do...

 

The actual coaching stock for the Norwich sets gets a bit overshadowed by the higher profile loco's and DVTs - but the coaches almost all date from 1975-80 (there are a few later built FOs from '84) - making them the oldest passenger vehicles on the GEML. A replacement for the LHCS sets is talked about, but I don't see much movement on it yet. Lots of differing opinions over the way forward...

 

I don't see a replacement for the large 321 fleet being likely, I don't see any driver for that change - more likely may be a repowering in the style of the SWT 455s?

[The Stationmaster]

Yes, the route knowledge issue for diversions was very much easier under British Rail. With everyone under a single organisation, it was relatively easy to use any crews with the necessary route knowledge for diversions, even if they didn't also have the necessary traction knowledge then as route conductors. The method of privatisation means that now, the crews with the diversionary route knowledge will now be working for an entirely separate company who have their own trains to look after, so aren't available for other companies diversions.

 

 

In reality that is not really the problem.  The difference is that in BR days there was a lot of spare traincrew capacity in various parts of the system, in some cases with a lot of really unjustifiable retained route knowledge thus it was much easier to get hold of Conductor Drivers.  Generally - and the extent varies considerably between operators - that situation has changed considerably with a reduction in Driver numbers plus in any case reductions in freight business which have impacted on their Driver numbers and in some cases the elimination of Spare Men.

 

Provided passenger operators are prepared to pay for diversionary knowledge (over obviously logical routes of course) and their trains are physically capable of being diverted then there is no problem beyond that of what it happens to cost (witness Jamie's comments regarding Cross Country).  Equally provided arrangements are made in advance it is often the case that other operators can arrange to help - witness what happened with FGW diverting trains via Banbury during various major stages of the works at Reading, what happened then was no different from what would have happened in BR days with the only difference being the Drivers come from a different company rather than just a different depot.  

 

However under full sectorisation the way things were going regarding cost control I'm pretty sure we would almost certainly have finished up in the same situation and we would have paid other sectors for use of their crews for any reason.

[jamie92208]

Just as an aside, my mates daughter was complaining to her father one day that she had had her shift changed and was going to have to spend the next day riding round various freight only routes in the cab of a class 31.  M mate offered to pay her to take her place but for some reason she declined the offer.  I also volunteered as a substitute.

 

Jamie

[kenw]

Cross Country have a lot of diversionary route knowledge and do a lot to keep it.

I just wish the various East Coast franchisees had the same attitude as buses always seem to be used between Doncaster and York when the route via Shaftholme and Knottingley is always available.

EC does, like I said above, cover a lot of diversionary routes and do use them where possible, with reviews often being done using the 'Thunderbird' locos, or cab passes to go on local trains.

Leeds and Doncaster depots cover the various routes between Doncaster and York as I said, including via Shaftholme and Knottingley, and the 22.00 KX - N'cle (a Leeds crew to York) is booked to run that way for route retention . However a direct comparison with XC isn't possible here, as EC is handicaped in that most of their fleet are electrics so that route's never available to them. So often busses do have to be used, in addition to what trains that are HST being diverted.