Buckingham West

[MarshLane]

Hi Rich,

Excellent news! Glad to hear you had an enjoyable day, it's amazing what kind of a boost your modelling can get when something all works as it should! Sounds like the operating afternoon went well. Looking forward to some updated pictures. :

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

Just sitting here idly thinking (worrying perhaps) about ballasting so much track.

 

My issues are 1) sooo much track, so I want a quick and easy method. 2) I know the standard way, dry mix brushed in, wetted and dilute pva, but I don't want rock solid ballast because my track is laid on 3mm closed cell foam and the locos seem to like the small amount of give, 3) I don't really want to squirt water everywhere.

 

I know Ray (of the Longsheds variety) used poppy seeds mixed with wallpaper paste. Has anyone tried Woodlands scenic ballast with wallpaper paste, trowelled in?

 

Ray H used Wicks carpet adhesive instead of pva, but in the tradtional method. Has anyone used copydex or carpet glue in a paste type mix and trowelled?

 

Rich

[Ray H]

I'm glad you had a good operating session Richard. Its always nice to have someone to share the experience with.

 

I did try diluting the adhesive and that seemed to still hold the ballast. However, don't forget that I've used SMP track so the sleepers are thinner and so is the depth of the ballast. I wonder if you could dilute the adhesive to the extent that you could apply it through a dropper bottle and still get it to stick.

 

I haven't managed to avoid the pre-spray with a drop of detergent despite some people suggesting that adding detergent to the adhesive breaks the surface tension.

[Richard Mawer]

COMMON PROBLEMS

 

So recent railway time has been spent making more MERG Servo4 boards and setting up servos for points. One set of 4 is installed and working in Buckingham West Loco. Another is needed there and 3 more sets to complete the points for the carriage sidings and goods yard. That will be 10 in total for Buckingham West station.

 

Way back near the start of this layout, on MK1, as reported on my original blog, I had issues with points. Interference with Servos to be correct. After that I decided to keep the wiring fully separated from track wiring. 2 common return systems.

 

I also recently discovered that on start up, each servo can pull half an amp. If they pull more power than the supply can provide they tend to twitch more than ideal which can bend signal wires etc. I have two 10 amp regulated power supplies so I decided to make power districts for the servos with no more than 5 Servo4 boards (20 servos) per district. One district is wired straight from the supply so it fires up as the plug is switched on. The others are switched in turn.

 

The problem was that all the servos worked even when the power switches were off! How??? I had put the switches in the -ve wires and I must have linked common returns wrongly somewhere. Maybe the 0 volt rail in the Servo4 was connected to the common? I couldn't trace a fault so I have now changed it all and put the switches in the +ve feed and hey presto the isolation works. Electrics hey!!!!!

[MarshLane]

Hi Richard,

I enjoy playing around with electrics but they can be infuriating things at times!  Personally, i think they know when your having a good day and think (oh yes, electrics can think I'm sure of that!) to themselves ... oh lets cause him problems and mess up his plans for the ENTIRE day

 

Glad to hear you got the better of things and found the fault tho. Interesting to hear your comment about the boards/servos pulling more power than available on startup.  I'm planning on using the Megapoints Controllers on my layout so the points can be DCC or lever frame controlled, and Im wondering if that will need to be a similar consideration for me.  As its the servo thats pulling the power, i suspect it will - so thanks for the heads up there.

 

How's the ballasting going?  I had a thought today, not sure why the issue of ballasting all your track popped into my head, but it did!  Have you thought of one of these ballast spreaders.  I've not used them personally - i use Carrs light and dark ballast mixed, then spooned onto the baseboard, before being covered with PVA glue sprayed from a plant spray, but it occurred to me that something like that given your volume of track, may at least give you a quicker way of laying the ballast. I appreciate you still need to glue it somehow, but just a thought?

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

Thanks Rich.

 

I have thought of a spreader, but no, haven't anything yet.

 

The servo power pull is only the first few micro seconds of power up. After that they take next to nothing. Some people have found no problems whatsoever at power up, but I was getting quite a significant twitch on some. Now I just get the satisfying "chit" as they come to life.

 

Rich

[Silver Sidelines]

Hi Rich

 

Just catching up as it has been so sunny and there is (still) lots to do outside!

 

Ballasting was a mammoth task.  Yes I used wallpaper paste for the poppy seeds and for some rock flour and coal dust.  However as you rightly point out you have laid track on a flexible base.  My track and ballast is laid directly on MDF and with the exception of a small section where I know that I skimped on the quantity of paste it is standing the test of time brilliantly. My poppy seeds and I am guessing derivatives of nut shells and other organic remains may well have sufficient in built flexibility when glued together to be used over your foam.  Dare I suggest a trial?  My six inch track length where I first tested my paste and poppy seeds still looks good resting on a box beneath the layout!  

 

How to spread the ballast?  I wanted a neat and tidy result and I trowelled my paste and seed mix into place with a small screw driver.  It was very controlled and after giving the rail heads a simple wipe with a damp cloth the track was ready for running.  Very therapeutic but time consuming.

 

Speak again

 

Ray

Edited June 8, 2016 by Silver Sidelines

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Ray,

 

Glad to hear you are keeping busy!!!

 

I quite like the idea of towelling it on.

 

Yours does look neat and tidy with no areas breaking up.

 

Ray H on here used Wickes carpet adhesive, which has a slightly rubberised quality a bit like Copydex. I tjink I might try mixing some of that with the Woodlands scenics baalast and see if it can be trowelled.

 

I got side tracked last night and got most of my locos out (now I have a loco yard). Got lots more stock out too. Most of the locos are ok. Some have never run! One Mainline Pannier is on a real go slow. I hate their motors. That will be a re-chassis job or just replacement. My Hornby County 4-4-0 doesn't seem to like the points - anywhere. I shall have to see what I can do. I have had to add some weight to some pony trucks, and a lot of wagons, but the real happy surprise is the Lima 45xx. I bought it in 1981. It has never run, but works remarkably well.

 

I really need to finish adding servos to the pointwork though. 3 more groups of 4 to go. Then signals!!

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

MIND THE GAP

 

One of the problems with putting stock on the layout is you have to play!

 

On a serious note, I need to know which locos work ok and which need work. There is no room for failures in my timetable so I needed to know. So one by one I got them running. A number of issues soon came to light.

 

1) Pony trucks are a real pain. Both Moguls and 2 prairies needed quite a lot of lead to be added to the pony's to keep them tracking properly. I am using self-adhesive 9mm wide strip made for making stain glass effects and bought off Amazon.

 

2) Most locos were happy to run round the circuits with stock, but occassionally they would come to grief at Charlton Junction. Pony trucks were one of the issues, but there were other issues. I identified that because the over-centre springs have been removed from the points tie bars, there is now play in the point blades. That allowed that part of the blades attached to the tie bar to move away from the frog and gap to appear in the blade. That didn't seem to be the problem though. The movement meant that the blade no longer sat "home" in the rebate on the outer rails, which made the rails marginally narrower and caused derailments.

 

 

 

I added small shims of plasticard to take out the play on the tie bar. Solved. Just need to painted track colour in due course.

 

 

 

3) I was still getting random derailments on the diamond crossings. By hand running stock over them I noticed the wheels dipped in the frogs and crossings. That tipped the opposite side upwards and anything could happen. After research on line, this seemed common with Peco. Back to back measurements on the stock's wheels is vital, and some are way off, but the flangeways clearances on the crossings are too large. I found a video on YouTube from Everard Junction where he added shims to extend the centre of the frogs and crossings, reducing the size of the gap. He used very small strips of thin plastic. I used the moulded plastic lining of a wagon box, cut into 1mm high 5mm long strips and stuck them to the side of the frogs to marginally extend the point of the frog.

 

 

 

The hand pushed wagons run far better through the junctions. Once the evostick has fully gone off, I hope the locos will too.

 

4) Certain locos are beyond the pale and need to be replaced. The 2 Mainline Moguls already have replacement Bachmann chassis. I bought a Bachmann chassis for the Mainline Collett Goods that would only move at freight speeds on full power, only to find it is not a straight swap.I will make it fit though. It's a project!!! A Mainline Pannier simply needs replacing so I have ordered one.

 

5) Hornby locos with diagonally split pickups (one rail on the loco and the other rail on the tender) have to be one of the most stupid ideas. None of mine are good runners. I don't get the concept. They all need extra pickups on loco and tender.

 

So here are some photos of the populated Buckingham Loco. Note the Director and J11 interlopers.

 

 

 

Finally a view of more locos in the storage loops (Banbury). This will be under a hill in due course. The circuits are in the foreground. The high level line from Evenley to Buckingham is at the rear.

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Richard Mawer

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich

 

I didn't have he patience to add packing pieces to the Peco Diamond - I just replaced it with a single slip which has far more metal rail to run on..

 

Regards  ray

[Ray H]

We replaced our code 100 diamond with a (live frog) code 75 diamond suitably packed and that seems to have cured our problems, some of which were stalling problems.

[Richard Mawer]

Hello Rich

 

I didn't have he patience to add packing pieces to the Peco Diamond - I just replaced it with a single slip which has far more metal rail to run on..

 

Regards  ray

 

Hi, I read that somewhere too and could be plan B, but it will change the look and could be dangerous if the slips were operable. I could always fix the mechanism.

[Richard Mawer]

We replaced our code 100 diamond with a (live frog) code 75 diamond suitably packed and that seems to have cured our problems, some of which were stalling problems.

Thanks Ray, but some of my older stock has too deep flanges for code 75. Is the 75 electrofrog?

 

I did read that the flange clearances between codes should be the same, its just the rail depth that is different, but that does seem to be the case with Peco. My turntable uses code 83 and the stock runs on that, so I might have a look at that option if there is one.

 

I do have some stalling as well, but I hope more pickups on locos will cure that.

 

I'll wait and see what my alterations do first.

[Richard Mawer]

With what I have run through briefly this afternoon, the plastic fills seem to be far better.

[Richard Mawer]

Well its been a while. Mainly because I've been away on holiday, but today I've made some progress and some repairs. Yep, whilst I was away one of the tracks to the turntable decided to liberate itself from the table and one of the servos decided to fall off.

 

I've given up trying to make the Mainline pannier run beyond a loud crawl. I've also given up on the slightly irratict Lima 45xx and lumpy running 61xx. The pannier is replaced by a new Bachmann version taken from the Western Wanderer set (cheaper to buy the whole set than just the loco - huh??). The prairie is also replaced by a new Bachmann version..... And the 61xx is just one loco less on the roster.

 

Although I still have the yard points to wire up at Buckingham West, I took on holiday a paper template of where Brackley Road station will go. The main problem will be making sure the bracing to the board and the servos will avoid the lines below which turn the 180 degrees into Buckingham West. Having traced where the lines run (below), I designed a track plan for Brackley Road which will avoid them.

 

Brackley road will sit in the far left corner. The single track coming in from the right.

 

 

This is an old photo and the lines to Buckingham are in place now.

 

This is looking from the lifting flap into the corner which will be the end of the branch at Brackley Road. The line will be closest to the wall on the right and 3 inches higher than the lines into Buckingham. A full 6 inches above the circuits at Charlton Junction.

 

 

 

So today I cut out the baseboard for Brackley Road.

 

 

 

It is now braced and ready to go in place over the 180 degree curve, when I have measured and cut the supports and legs.

 

I am also running tests of which locos will pull what loads up the incline. The 43xx's are disappointing, but better with added weight. Still more trials to do.

 

I also have to get the rest of the loco fleet sorted. The older ones need more pickups, servicing and running in.

 

Running over the diamond crossings is better, but still not consistant enough. Too many derailments still. Some wagons and coaches need rewheeling and some need more weight. Lots to do, but I am very conscious I may need to bite the bullet and upgrade the crossings and two points. Changing the crossings for single slips seems to be the way forward, but not the cheapest. I will also have to upgrade the operating switches to 4 pole changeovers to deal with the polarities and frogs as well as the points and signals too. I think I will continue the trials and running in, improve the stock and see what happens.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hi Rich, glad to see you have your priorities right, lawn cut first.  No chance here of working outside today, too dark not to mention the frequent downpours and low cloud.  Summer in Scotland - oh that day was three weeks ago.

 

Difficult decisions parting with favourite engines.  In my case I had a clear out of some ex Airfix Castles which I had super detailed.  The replacement Hornby Castles are in a different league.  The Bachmann Manor / 43xx are long overdue upgrading.  I am sure they are a popular prototype - especially given that there is one or more in preservation.  If you can put up with the noise from the motor the old Mainline chassis might have better traction with its rubber tyres.

 

Speak again

 

Ray

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Ray,

 

Summer hasn't been great down here in Oxfordshire either, but today was ok. Hence the need to get the cutting done (grass and ply). I've just found out its 1" too long because the lifting flap swings out: high level hinges.

 

I also have an Airfix Castle. It runs ok. I daren't look at the Hornby one!!!!

 

I have had to upgrade the two mainline 43's to Bachmann chassis because one Mainline pancake only worked on high days and holidays. The other one (and a replacement chassis) both lost their quartering big style when the drivers broke off their friendship with the axles! The Bachmanns run really well and I've added extra pickups to the tenders. Its just a matter of adding weight.

 

I bought a new Bachmann chassis for the Collett Goods too. The Mainline one was loud and stuttered badly. Unfortunately that one is not a straight swap, so a lot of work and weight is needed. Even the tender has the hook on the other part!

[Ray H]

Rich

 

We had problems with our code 100 diamond crossing on out groups 4mm layout. We swapped it out with an Electrofrog code 75 version with a little packing underneath and all has been ok since.

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Ray (H)

 

Thanks for that. You've told me this before actually. The code 100 crossing seems to be well known as a crude piece. Unfortunately some of my older stock will not run through code 75 because of deeper flanges. Electrofrog sounds good but I would need even more than 4 poles on the switches, or change the control principles at that box/panel. If only Peco did a decent electrofrog code 100 crossing. Even a decent code 100 insulfrog would be helpful. The other Ray's idea of the single slips seems to be the only sensible way forward for me. Unless of course things start running through the existing ones ok.

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

Ok. Peco wins.

 

After an afternoon of running trains round the circuits, I give in. 9/10 a given loco and wagons ran through Charlton junction ok. Then crash, something decides to go a different route! And then there's the stalling on the crossings.

 

Peco code 100 diamonds are officially rubbish.

 

So that's two single slips and two electrfrog medium lefts on order.

[Richard Mawer]

LEVEL 3

 

Tonight's fun and games was putting the baseboard for Brackley Road in place. This goes over the approach to Buckingham West. Accordingly, it is another 3" higher. The single track branch climbs up from Evenley to the simple terminus situated slightly out of the Northamptonshire town. Its a decent walk into town! In the future (from a 1930's perspective) Beeching would decide that the GWR branch could stay because it was far enough away from the Great Central Mainline which served Brackley directly. He had decided to keep the GCR mainline open of course!!!! Far better than that silly idea of a Motorway. That M1 would never catch on...and if it did, it would soon become a car park.

 

If only.........

 

Anyway.....back to (model) reality.

 

 

 

The circuits and Charlton Junction are on the bottom level. Those pesky diamonds! The approach to Buckingham from Evenley is on the middle level. Brackley Road is on the top. Note the approximate location of the Buckingham tunnel mouth. Incidentally, the outer-most of the three lines is the yard headshunt. At the end of the headshunt (in the tunnel) there is a diode controlled dead section. The loco stops before it falls off, but it is free to come back into the yard.

 

 

 

Not the best woodwork, but it works. The bracing is at a variety of angles to avoid the lines below.

 

 

 

The trackplan for Brackley Road was sorted out on the paper template like the baseboard bracing. The points (and hence servos underneath) have to avoid the lnes below.

 

The approximate position of the Banbury tunnel mouth (entrance to the storage loops) is shown on the lowest level.

 

 

 

No matter much I plan things, there is always something else. I hadn't imagined the power sockets being so close in height to the board. I'll need to disguise those.

 

[St Enodoc]

LEVEL 3

 

Tonight's fun and games was putting the baseboard for Brackley Road in place. This goes over the approach to Buckingham West. Accordingly, it is another 3" higher. The single track branch climbs up from Evenley to the simple terminus situated slightly out of the Northamptonshire town. Its a decent walk into town! In the future (from a 1930's perspective) Beeching would decide that the GWR branch could stay because it was far enough away from the Great Central Mainline which served Brackley directly. He had decided to keep the GCR mainline open of course!!!! Far better than that silly idea of a Motorway. That M1 would never catch on...and if it did, it would soon become a car park.

 

If only.........

 

Anyway.....back to (model) reality.

 

image.jpg

 

 

The circuits and Charlton Junction are on the bottom level. Those pesky diamonds! The approach to Buckingham from Evenley is on the middle level. Brackley Road is on the top. Note the approximate location of the Buckingham tunnel mouth. Incidentally, the outer-most of the three lines is the yard headshunt. At the end of the headshunt (in the tunnel) there is a diode controlled dead section. The loco stops before it falls off, but it is free to come back into the yard.

 

image.jpg

 

 

Not the best woodwork, but it works. The bracing is at a variety of angles to avoid the lines below.

 

image.jpg

 

 

The trackplan for Brackley Road was sorted out on the paper template like the baseboard bracing. The points (and hence servos underneath) have to avoid the lnes below.

 

The approximate position of the Banbury tunnel mouth (entrance to the storage loops) is shown on the lowest level.

 

image.jpg

 

 

No matter much I plan things, there is always something else. I hadn't imagined the power sockets being so close in height to the board. I'll need to disguise those.

 

image.jpg

Rich, moving the power outlets higher up the wall shouldn't be too difficult.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich

 

Looking good - well done.  Have to agree with Enoch - moving the power point looks an easy option.  We have just done something similar in our utility room with the light switches whihc had been cut into the top row of tiles. Trouble was the wall behind was concrete block and had to be chiselled out.

 

Shouldn't you be back to work?

 

Speak again

 

Ray

[Andrew P]

Hi Rich, some good looking stock up there, and some superb carpentry as well.

[Richard Mawer]

That's nice Ray!!!!!! Ha ha!

 

I was at work during the day, but did the pleasant work in the evening. Help from my good wife and eldest daughter to man-handle it into place.