cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 A simple one really, would there ever have been a reason for a Terrier to have been seen around the Redhill area, or helpfully the Redhill-Tonbridge line? Desperately trying to resist buying one of the new Dapol ones, and I have nothing else that would really match it but I have a local connection with a coal merchants in Nutfield - and one wagon which I picked up off of Ebay which could possibly justify a mini diorama/layout. I know 'rule 1' and all that but it does help if there's at least a prototypical basis. All I can find is a few being scrapped at Redhill in my quick research, and I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable might be able to save me hours of intertube trawling. Ta muchly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 To coin that much used phrase - resistance is futile. It's a cracking model. On the serious side, it would depend on the period modelled. It could be a locomotive running between Brighton (from a repair) and Headcorn (for service on the KESR) via Redhill and getting purloined on the way for a spot of shunting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I suppose there is the thought of the other way round. If I have a private owner wagon based at a coal merchants in Nutfield ... where might that have been filled up and dropped at Redhill presumably tripped down to Nutfield? Would the other end have used a Terrier ... ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Go back far enough, and at least one was quite ordinary in the area. There are two beautiful photos of No.83 "Earlswood", which was allocated to Redhill/Earlswood for shunting the yard and the "branch-ette" which served the asylum, in The Bennett Collection, taken in the early 20th century. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2015 Nutfield was on a SECR line so Terriers (a LBSCR loco) would only have conceivably been used after grouping. In reality though by the time of grouping the LBSCR had already disposed of nearly half the class - increases in train loads plus their small water and coal capacity making them less and less useful as time went on. Those that survived tended to be in locations where their other factors were at play - Langstone viaduct on the Hayling Island branch, the lightly laid lines on the Isle of Wight, Works shunter at Brighton and so on. The other factor - which you have aluded to is that in reality Nutfield had modest goods requirements - with no industry to speak of and as such all shunting would be done the engine from the regular pick up goods - the C class and O1 being examples of the sort of engines used in SECR days. traction in Sr days could include the Maunsell mogals, and possibly ex LBSCR engines whose boiler fittings had been modified to comply with the slightly lower composite Sr loading guage. That said if you wish to purchase a terrier, there is no reason why you cannot re-write history to suit. Alternatively you could consider moving location slightly - As has been noted Earlswood Asylum had a coal siding and I think that Quadrupling / construction of the Quarry lines didn't occur until Stroudley's ornate livery had been changed to umber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 So Earlswood Asylum could conceivably have had a contract with the coal merchant at Nutfield to supply coal to heat its boilers (with the occasional wagonload as part of the train from wherever to Nutfield to supply its own coal yard, tripped down from Redhill by the Terrier. Interesting... more googling required... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Well, the asylum was big, and probably needed as much coal as the whole of Nutfield, so almost certainly bought it direct from the mine or a coal factor, maybe S&C, but ...... One should never permit implausibility to get in the way of a good layout. I certainly don't. Random, only slightly related fact: one of my great, great grand uncles, or some such, actually was a coal merchant at Red Hill (note old spelling), and died when one of his horses bolted down the big hill. As far as I have been able to discover, he didn't own any railway wagons, though. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Go back far enough, and at least one was quite ordinary in the area. There are two beautiful photos of No.83 "Earlswood", which was allocated to Redhill/Earlswood for shunting the yard and the "branch-ette" which served the asylum, in The Bennett Collection, taken in the early 20th century. I've had a quick look on some old maps and "Earlswood asylum for idiots" (as it is called on the 1870 map) doesn't appear to be rail served at all. Random, only slightly related fact: one of my great, great grand uncles, or some such, actually was a coal merchant at Red Hill (note old spelling), and died when one of his horses bolted down the big hill. As far as I have been able to discover, he didn't own any railway wagons, though. Mother in law is related to the coal merchant of Nutfield, and father-in-law worked there (although after the time of it being rail served) hence my vague interest. I can find images and maps of the station with its two sidings for the coal merchant plus "kick back" to a brick and tile works. I just can't quite see how to make a vaguely interesting layout out of one loco that doesn't really fit the job, and one wagon. Kits are not my skillbase and O gauge locos are certainly well beyond my capabilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Earlswood asylum Royal Earlswood Hospital. Housed the Queens cousins Miss Bowes-Lyons. Now an up market housing development. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Cromptonnut The asylum siding was at the country end of the down main platform, serving a coal yard to the rear of the houses in Prince's Road - memory tricked me into thinking it was a lot longer than the maps show, which is why I called it a branch-ette ........ I withdraw that word; it was a siding, pure and simple. Have you considered inventing another huge rural medical facility, and basing that at Nutfield? Chest Hospitals were an unfortunate necessity, for instance. It could have a branch from Nutfield yard, with a passenger service (Wednesdays and Sundays only), using its own carriage, and a locomotive hired from the LBSCR. Hellingly Asylum without the electricity? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 That'll explain why I couldn't find it Wasn't wanting to make a too big a project as this is definitely an obscure project well away from my main interests. Will have to think... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The other pretext for a private branch-line would be Redhill Aerodrome, easily served by an extension of the brick and tile works siding. A quick google suggests that the aerodrome was used as an alternative to Croydon in the late 1930s. This could be an SR era job, with the Terrier dragging a Pullman car and PMV down the lightly-laid, ex-contractors, branch and back, to be zipped-off to Victoria by a bigger loco, a la the Imperial Airways trains to the Solent. Do you need any more faintly plausible excuses? No charge, because I enjoy this! Kevin, Terrier Excuses Consultant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Redhill aerodrome. Hmmm. ... goes off to look for 1:43 plane kits... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Or, if you go north of the SECR, a rail-served Fuller's Earth works, with a clapped-out old second hand Terrier to drag wagons to and from the main line. The mines certainly had tramways, narrow gauge ones from the pits to the works, so if your taste is for old-style wood and corrugated-iron industrial premises, this could fit the bill. Kevin Ps: if you find a 1:43 DH Dragon or Dragon Rapide, please shout loud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm already working on a OO-9 and HO-f narrow gauge layout so I don't know if I want to mix O and O-16.5 in a second layout! 1:48 Dragon Rapide? Is this what you're looking for? http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=ISR%20IC-48035 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 0-16.5 ....... Far too prosaic. I suggest 0-14, or better still for the industry concerned 0-10.5, for 18" gauge. I did it about 20 years ago, using Roy Link 0-14 chassis, with the wheels pushed in, for a layout based on the Godstone Fireclay industry. For the loco, I used an N gauge chassis with the wheels shoved outwards! Anyway ....... I've sworn not to get involved in narrow gauge stuff for a while. That aircraft kit looks very interesting, thank you. A slight touch of the "scratch building in box" about it, but worth consideration. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2015 There was a siding or rail served industrial estate north of Redhill which had a very steep incline down into it (a banking engine would be needed I would have thought). The only remaining signs of it now are some abandoned trackwork and a sign in the undergrowth and the wedge shaped building that was constructed around the line when it was built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2015 There was a siding or rail served industrial estate north of Redhill which had a very steep incline down into it (a banking engine would be needed I would have thought). The only remaining signs of it now are some abandoned trackwork and a sign in the undergrowth and the wedge shaped building that was constructed around the line when it was built. You mean this http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71361-british-industrial-sand-sidings-holmethorpe-redhill/ http://www.railalbum.co.uk/industrial-railways/bis-redhill.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Good morning all As stated the Royal Earlswood siding was at the south end of Earlswood station. It has recently been redeveloped, after being overgrown for many years. I've been told that between the wars local people could earn beer money by shovelling coal from the rail wagon onto horse drawn carts and taking them to the main building. In my schooldays (1950's) a LBSCR Vulcan was nicknamed "The Earlswood Queen" as it shunted the sidings at the good yard and other local places, including the Royal Earlswood. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Asylum for Idiots? Excuse me, (puts hands on hips), my family is descended from idiots! My brother done a family history search and found that back in 1780-something my paternal great (6 times) grandfather was officially an "idiot"!! An idiot in those days, it was discovered, was an unemployed person. You learn something every day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted September 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2015 Anyone contributing to this thread is probably an idiot as its highly unlikely a layout will ever result! Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Anyone contributing to this thread is probably an idiot as its highly unlikely a layout will ever result! In the circumstances, that a Terrier was not likely a regular visitor to a specific location to fit with a wagon that I have, you are probably right. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the other RTR steam locos that are currently available are likely to fit the location either, so the wagon will remain "stuffed and mounted" on a display plinth. But it's been an interesting discussion anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 CromptonNut Oddly enough, if you whip the wheel-sets out of your wagon (an 0 scale one, liveried for a Nutfield merchant, if I read correctly) and replace them with Slaters coarse-scale wheels, your troubles are at an end, because there are two coarse-scale locos around which fit the bill: a Q and an SR Mogul. I do understand however, that retro-modelling isn't everyone's cup of tea. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 I know I need to replace the wheels anyway as they seem to be non-insulated (perhaps, as you say, three rail) ... correct on the Nutfield front A good memory... I'm sure that there are loco kits that would do the job but sadly I feel that they are way beyond my current skill level and the cost of getting someone to build them for me is beyond my capabilities at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 In the circumstances, that a Terrier was not likely a regular visitor to a specific location to fit with a wagon that I have, you are probably right. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the other RTR steam locos that are currently available are likely to fit the location either, so the wagon will remain "stuffed and mounted" on a display plinth. But it's been an interesting discussion anyway i think the wagon will suit the locos location, rather than the loco suiting the wagon location. the terrier is not likely to have been at Nutfield, but the wagon would have been at Redhill, or somewhere else where the loco was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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