Routemasters

[georgeT]

l was wondering if anyone can help ? how far out of south London did the RMs venture, and also when were they withdrawn ? any help would be appreciated.

[Nearholmer]

GeorgeT

 

They haven't yet been completely withdrawn - a couple of routes that are particularly popular with tourists, notably the 15, Trafalgar Square to Tower Hill, are still RM operated. This isn't some "preservation" operation, it's an ordinary TfL bus route.

 

Over the summer, there have been a few RTs, predecessor to RM, in service on the 38 on tube strike days!

 

How far sarf? Haven't you seen that film with Cliff Richard in it? A London bus can go anywhere!

 

More seriously, there were RM variants in use by London Country, which I recall seeing at East Grinstead, but you'd need a proper bus-gricer to give you the full answer.

 

Kevin

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think that George may mean how far out of South London did red RMs go.

 

On regular journeys, 190 to Old Coulsdon would be one candidate (although Coulsdon is still technically in South London as part of LB Croydon).

 

I am trying to remember if RMs replaced RTs on the 65/265 to Leatherhead - I think they did.  There were also 164s - Sutton to Epsom via Banstead.

 

On non-regular journeys, I can remember there being a couple of red RMs at Reigate Garage for a while on Country services.

 

Edit: "To hire this bus, write to 55 Broadway SW1, tel Abbey 1212". London Transport would often use RMs for excursion work. I've been on one myself to Brighton.

 

Re-Edit: That's Scotland Yard's number (just across the road from 55 Broadway). The LT number was Abbey 1234 and I am interested to see that TfL travel enquiries still use it.

[Oldddudders]

GeorgeT

More seriously, there were RM variants in use by London Country, which I recall seeing at East Grinstead, but you'd need a proper bus-gricer to give you the full answer.

Kevin

I don't quite qualify as a "proper bus-gricer" but confess the first Routemaster I saw was RM1, on a skool model railway club trip to grice Camden Shed, and as there were ultimately 2754 or so it was probably the right one to start with!

 

As Kevin says, there were green versions, as well as Greenline versions, the latter having doors. As well as EG, Horsham was a regular destination, and that's more than halfway to the coast. That route was 414, which ran from West Croydon station via Redhill and Dorking.

[Oldddudders]

Joseph is right. For 5 weeks from 31.3.79 RMs ran to Leatherhead, but by then the route was 71, the 65 terminating at Chessington Zoo for more than a decade before that. No, I really am not a bus gricer, just know where to looK!

 

The 190 had RMs from 20.11.70, initially Saturdays only, but the full service from a year later. Nearby route 166 to Chipstead Valley never did get RMs.

 

Poor George will wish he'd never asked!

[Coppercap]

I am trying to remember if RMs replaced RTs on the 65 to Leatherhead - I think they did. 

 

 

 

They did - in October 1975, but to Chessington Zoo.

The 71 to Leatherhead converted to RMs in March 1978. 

[georgeT]

Thanks guys for the quick replies, what l want is to model 'Bishop Street' somewhere in south London (NSE), where it would be right to run 73s with the third rail, 33s 47s and 37s classes, but l want a couple of 'Routemaster's at the station between 1985-1995 would that be right.... 

[Nearholmer]

What a nostalgia-fest this innocent question has unleashed.

 

I remember the route to Chessington Zoo, probably mid-1960s, and being impressed/mystified by seeing the crew stamp a time card in one of those strange clocks in a lay-by.

 

Southdown routes, which was what I was used to, didn't have anything like that - their crews had to sign a sheet in the bus office in each town, probably to confirm receipt of the parcels that they used to carry.

 

And, probably c1971, my cousin and I "did" the 414 from Redhill to Horsham, and came back by train, again via Dorking, calling in at that excellent model shop that used to be there. So how I forgot that it was an RM I don't know.

 

Kevin

 

George - to actually answer your question, yes, sounds OK to me, (for instance http://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/shop/londonbuses/london-transport-aec-routemaster-rm595-wlt595-on-route-68-at-croydon-in-1985/),although I seem to recall that RM were being superseded by some newer "boxy" looking things by then, DML I think.

[Oldddudders]

Boring Disclosure : Route 414 had 65 fare stages. No 33, i.e. exactly half way, was right outside the house where I lived for my first 16 years. The stop was called Betchworth, Barley Mow, after the adjoining pub, since renamed Arkle Manor (why?) and more recently Harvester.

 

Was the shop Dorking Model Centre in West St? Still in business when I was last there a year ago.

[BrushVeteran]

I remember way back in 1965 whilst attending my grandfather's funeral at Biggin Hill there were both red and green RML's running along the main road on the 410 to and from Reigate at frequent intervals. I seem to recall that the red RML's were being used until sufficient green buses had been delivered. I also remember travelling on RC1, a Green Line Reliance on its first day in service from Bromley North to Biggin Hill..............................those were the days!

[Joseph_Pestell]

They did - in October 1975, but to Chessington Zoo.

The 71 to Leatherhead converted to RMs in March 1978. 

 

I should have remembered that the route number had changed to 71 by then.

 

My family lived at Gt Bookham (2 mls south of Leatherhead) until 1969. The 65 was very useful to me as the starting point of many Red Rover days out around London. (parents would never allow a 10-year-old to do that these days and we did not even have mobile phones for emergencies).

 

Not being a bus spotter (honest!), I am not too sure about George's question re-dates. I think that RMs would have been rather rare in outer South London by 1985, mostly replaced by DMS or Titans. What there were would probably have been more in SE London. I don't really recall seeing many 37s in South London other than on coal to Chessington.

[Coppercap]

The 65 was very useful to me as the starting point of many Red Rover days out around London. (parents would never allow a 10-year-old to do that these days and we did not even have mobile phones for emergencies).

 

Not being a bus spotter (honest!), I am not too sure about George's question re-dates. I think that RMs would have been rather rare in outer South London by 1985, mostly replaced by DMS or Titans. What there were would probably have been more in SE London. I don't really recall seeing many 37s in South London other than on coal to Chessington.

 

Yes, and for me in the early 70's it was "Take some 2p pieces to phone home at lunchtime "......or if we were stuck at some outer extremity (as was often our goal), without a bus back! Not that we ever did miss the last bus back. Oh, happy days remembered on the Red Rovers. Sadly, I still have my old tickets...........

 

Agree, DMSs and then Ms and Ts were probably much more common 1985 to 1995, as well as the single deckers......

[georgeT]

hanks very much again lads all very helpful, love the bygone stories, all very helpful, the bus l have on the station forecourt is totally wrong as its a Stagecoach Manchester 2002 bus, so l want to replace it with the right Routemaster, thanks again...no lights this time hahaha

[Oldddudders]

For those who wish to recal all the details of their London red bus past, I recommend this site, which gives chapter and verse over the last 60 years on every route by number.

 

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/

 

OTOH, if you wish to know more about the types of bus, and which actual examples - by fleet number - were allocated where at any time, I can recommend this site.

 

http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.smith/buses/

 

Both sites are run by chaps called Ian, but neither is me!

[Coppercap]

For those who wish to recal all the details of their London red bus past, I recommend this site, which gives chapter and verse over the last 60 years on every route by number.

 

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/

 

OTOH, if you wish to know more about the types of bus, and which actual examples - by fleet number - were allocated where at any time, I can recommend this site.

 

http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.smith/buses/

 

Both sites are run by chaps called Ian, but neither is me!

 

Oh, yes, I've had those websites bookmarked for yonks! Very informative.

[georgeT]

What great sites, all l ever needed to know, thank you very much...

[Nearholmer]

OD

 

West Street sounds plausible

 

We wandered around a lot of back-streets to get from the "LBSCR" station, to the shop, then to the "SER" station, not Deepdene, the other one. Afterwards, home to cousin's house near Earlswood, clutching a water-crane and some buffer-stops for his layout, on which we used to run our approximation of the Belle (made of Triang EMU cars and Pullmans), while looking out of the window to spot the real one.

 

On rover tickets: both bus and railway ones were real bargains. For us "yokels", the equivalent of a Red Rover was one which covered the whole of East Kent Road Cars, Maidstone & District, and Southdown, plus bits of London Country that were in genuinely in the country.

 

Kevin

[cravensdmufan]

I used to travel home to Brentwood (about 22 miles from London, Aldgate) on Green Line 721's - they were RCL's (lengthened RM's with folding doors at the back). Looked very smart in their dark green livery, with light green lining, always kept clean and shiny. I believe they were garaged at London Road, Romford.

 

Remember thinking at the time they were a brilliant comfortable ride with their air suspension and they seemed to accelerate and go like the clappers, overtaking rival Eastern National's FLF on the dual carriageway! I believe they lasted on the route until the early 1970's. Since found out that they had 11.3 lire engines!

 

To my delight, EFE issued one that even had "my" route 721 on the front! Happy days!

[mezzoman253]

Hope no one minds a pic' of one. Taken recently at North Weald on the Epping and Ongar Railway.

 

I also used the 721 at times, and we could go from the Coopers Arms, Romford, to Whipsnade Zoo on the 726. The route was extended in summer.

 

Lovely buses the RCL's. 

 

Rob

[Oldddudders]

The Routemaster represented the summit of London Transport bus design. Thereafter there was political pressure for LT to buy off-the-peg, or at least relatively so. Thus it is no surprise that so many of LT's buses from the 50s and 60s have survived - they were designed to be robust enough for London. Their successors were made for less-demanding customers, and no doubt cost less as a result.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I agree that the buses that were specially designed for London were more robust. Then we got the Merlins and it was downhill from thereon. The DMS was supposedly a design for London (even called it the "Londoner") but they were not up to the job.

 

That said, anyone who visited Aldenham Works will know that an RM was just a kit of parts that could be taken apart and rebuilt many times. So not really as old as it might seem.

[pointstaken]

Remember when the "Londoner" was first announced as the new London bus by the then Chairman. There was unbridled cynicism amongst all the staff, even those of us on the railway side. regarding LT's future as a separate entity. "Pass the collecting tin round", made from a DMS.

 

Dennis

[Guest]

Thanks guys for the quick replies, what l want is to model 'Bishop Street' somewhere in south London (NSE), where it would be right to run 73s with the third rail, 33s 47s and 37s classes, but l want a couple of 'Routemaster's at the station between 1985-1995 would that be right.... 

 

South London? Circa 1985 with a Routemaster? Welcome to Croydon! Actually, don't model Croydon George, I'm supposed to be doing that...

 

http://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/shop/londonbuses/london-transport-aec-routemaster-rm204-vlt204-on-route-68-at-west-croydon-in-1985/

[georgeT]

South London? Circa 1985 with a Routemaster? Welcome to Croydon! Actually, don't model Croydon George, I'm supposed to be doing that...

 

http://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/shop/londonbuses/london-transport-aec-routemaster-rm204-vlt204-on-route-68-at-west-croydon-in-1985/

 

Hahahaha No worries Pete 'Bishop Street' is based around the Croydon area or in fact anywhere in south London, selhurst, norwood, just love the London scene..

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Deep joy reading this thread. The furthest west that LT Country ran to that I ever saw was Virginia Water. I actually went there one winter's day and very bleak it was too but Staines was a regular hub for bus routes back then.

 

Greenlines used RM's and I can still recall the late sixties travelling from Hatfield to Kingston on the 716 (?) and that was frequently an RM with doors and it was FAST going down the A1 with a diversion for Brookman's Park. Happy days.

 

During my later bus driving career I had the pleasure of driving a Routmaster. Slow but sure. Very few of them had original engines, indeed the one I drove actually had a FIAT engine in it. I have no idea whether that was a good or a bad thing.

 

Modern buses are speed limited to 50mph and I really woudn't want to go much faster in most of them. In service and around town you woudl be lucky to see 30mph although I did once set off a speed camera when I was running late on a late night service with a howling mob of kids aboard and after an altercation about one of them not having a ticket or paying the fare.